News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Casper Gutman]

And if they expanded capacity with just C and D attractions and no big E ride, they'd be crucified on these boards.

Not that Disney should pay attention to the wailing that would ensue if it were the right thing to do for the parks.

If they listened to the wailing on these boards they wouldn’t have spent decades eliminating entertainment and shelving plans for non-E tickets so they wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

 

[Andrew25]

Honestly... MK is the one park that actually needs more E-tickets. It has more than enough C/D-tickets at the park that are rather unpopular and doesn't utilize its full capacity. Not saying I wouldn't take a C or D ticket... but the park is maxing out its E-ticket capacity and needs more.

 

[James Alucobond]

People trash NRJ because you get to the end and say "that's it?!" I wonder how often CM's hear "we waited in line for that?"

I firmly believe it’s because the shaman animatronic is so grand while the space the shaman appears in still feels intimate and small. The juxtaposition comes off as “wrong” in some way, and the sequence feels like a throwaway lead-in to something else rather than a finale. You just unceremoniously roll on past it faster than you pass through any room in Small World.

I think a single impressive figure could have worked in this ride if you spent a lot more time circling around it in a 180-degree arc, perhaps in front of the Tree of Souls. However, as currently designed, I think the only way to set expectations correctly is to have a few more animatronics you also shoot past with similar brisk pacing. It currently feels overly ponderous at the outset and “little ado about everything” at the end.

 

[mattpeto]

People trash NRJ because you get to the end and say "that's it?!" I wonder how often CM's hear "we waited in line for that?"

I think that's the #1 issue. Navi is the most time valuable Genie+ attraction at AK, which is insane.

The attraction is immersive in that world and it's family friendly. It's not terrible at all, just doesn't warrant the crazy waits.

 

[Andrew25]

If DAK had decent capacity, NRJ would be much better received.

It's only 1 of 3 family-friendly ride attractions that most people can experience at DAK. Safaris and FoP being the other two.

 

[UNCgolf]

People trash NRJ because you get to the end and say "that's it?!" I wonder how often CM's hear "we waited in line for that?"

You're kind of proving my point here.

People mainly think that because they want it to be an E ticket. As a C ticket, it might be the best on property -- it's certainly much better than other recent C tickets like Frozen Ever After.

It's not the ride's fault* the wait times are what they are -- although I think the wait times also disprove the notion that the average guest doesn't like it. It's not like it's a new attraction; it's been open for almost 7 years now and still gets long waits. Yes, the park has capacity issues, but it's not like Dinosaur or Kali River Rapids get anywhere near the wait times that NRJ gets.

WDW would be in much better shape if they built several more C tickets as detailed and immersive as NRJ.

*except that the capacity is too low; that's a design flaw. Almost everything else about the ride's design is excellent if you accept that it's a C ticket, other than the Shaman ending as discussed elsewhere.

 

[Touchdown]

I firmly believe it’s because the shaman animatronic is so grand while the space the shaman appears in still feels intimate and small. The juxtaposition comes off as “wrong” in some way, and the sequence feels like a throwaway lead-in to something else rather than a finale. You just unceremoniously roll on past it faster than you pass through any room in Small World.

I think a single impressive figure could have worked in this ride if you spent a lot more time circling around it in a 180-degree arc, perhaps in front of the Tree of Souls. However, as currently designed, I think the only way to set expectations correctly is to have a few more animatronics you also shoot past with similar brisk pacing. It currently feels overly ponderous at the outset and “little ado about everything” at the end.

It needed one more big room after that. They should have recreated a giant room with the Navi praying to their God Tree like in the movie. A room with 20 Navi swaying with their tails connected to the tree with their backs to us and (a far less sophisticated) Shamen standing by the tree arms raised chanting.

 

[UNCgolf]

I firmly believe it’s because the shaman animatronic is so grand while the space the shaman appears in still feels intimate and small. The juxtaposition comes off as “wrong” in some way, and the sequence feels like a throwaway lead-in to something else rather than a finale. You just unceremoniously roll on past it faster than you pass through any room in Small World.

I think a single impressive figure could have worked in this ride if you spent a lot more time circling around it in a 180-degree arc, perhaps in front of the Tree of Souls. However, as currently designed, I think the only way to set expectations correctly is to have a few more animatronics you also shoot past with similar brisk pacing. It currently feels overly ponderous at the outset and “little ado about everything” at the end.

I've thought something similar -- that the Shaman, as impressive an AA as it is, actually hurts the ride's perception because it comes at the very end and then the ride is over. I think it either needed one more scene after the Shaman or the Shaman itself should have been excised in favor of something different.

Regardless, it's still currently the second best ride overall behind the Safari at DAK for me (it would probably be third behind Everest if the yeti worked).

 

[James Alucobond]

You're proving my point here.

People only think that because they want it to be an E ticket. As a C ticket, it might be the best on property -- it's certainly much better than other recent C tickets like Frozen Ever After.

It's not the ride's fault* the wait times are what they are -- although I think the wait times also disprove the notion that the average guest doesn't like it. It's not like it's a new attraction; it's been open for almost 7 years now and still gets long waits. Yes, the park has capacity issues, but it's not like Dinosaur or Kali River Rapids get anywhere near the wait times that NRJ gets.

WDW would be in much better shape if they built several more C tickets as detailed and immersive as NRJ.

*except that the capacity is too low; that's a design flaw. Almost everything else about the ride's design is excellent, other than the Shaman ending as discussed elsewhere.

On one hand, I agree. On the other, I don’t. I agree that it is appropriately detailed for a C and that adding much more potentially “ranks it up”, but I don’t think it’s purely a guest perception problem; it’s a design one too. I can’t think of other attractions even of the C-level categorization where I see the unload station and am shocked that I didn’t realize I was in the finale chamber moments ago.

 

[doctornick]

People trash NRJ because you get to the end and say "that's it?!" I wonder how often CM's hear "we waited in line for that?"

Yeah, what is there is well executed, but it needs to be longer to work well. If the ride were another 3 minutes or so of the same degree of quality scenes - ideally with few animatronics as well - it would be vastly improved by just not having the "that's it?" factor where the ride seems to end just as it is getting started.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It’s scenes. Disney can’t or won’t create scenes anymore, the kind that defined not only Es like HM or WoM but also smaller scale dark rides. River Journey is disappointing because it lacks scenes - it’s like looking at a stage with no performance. At least Frozen sort of tries to create scenes in the newly created first show room before devolving into Disney’s copyrighted “elaborate figures gesture at you in empty room” - the same thing that afflicts RJ’s Shaman.

 

[UNCgolf]

On one hand, I agree. On the other, I don’t. I agree that it is appropriately detailed for a C and that adding much more potentially “ranks it up”, but I don’t think it’s purely a guest perception problem; it’s a design one too. I can’t think of other attractions even of the C-level categorization where I see the unload station and am shocked that I didn’t realize I was in the finale chamber moments ago.

I agree the ending is flawed -- I think that's the only part of the ride that has a design flaw (other than the low capacity).

But even with that flaw, the ride as a whole is still significantly better than anything else Disney has built at its scale in decades.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

So...getting back to Beyond Big Thunder...

 

[UNCgolf]

Yeah, what is there is well executed, but it needs to be longer to work well. If the ride were another 3 minutes or so of the same quality scenes - ideally with few animatronics as well - it would be vastly improved but just not having the "that's it?" factor.

Again, though, you're almost certainly turning it into at least a D ticket if it's 3 minutes longer with more AAs. You could probably do one or the other and leave it as a C ticket, but I don't think you could do both.

Which would be great! I'd love a D or E ticket version of NRJ; it would be one of the best E tickets they've built this century too (and would tremendously overshadow FoP, IMO). I just don't think it's really fair to judge it like that since it wasn't built to be at that scale.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Again, though, you're almost certainly turning it at least into a D ticket if it's 3 minutes longer with more AAs. You could probably do one or the other and leave it as a C ticket, but I don't think you could do both.

But that’s what the setting feels like it demands. RJ is D- or E-level sets with nothing in them. Toad was a bunch of painted flats, but it felt more complete because things happened and the aesthetic was consistent and C-level. RJ isn’t a C, it’s an unfinished chunk of an E.

 

[doctornick]

Again, though, you're almost certainly turning it at least into a D ticket if it's 3 minutes longer with more AAs. You could probably do one or the other and leave it as a C ticket, but I don't think you could do both.

Nah. The ride is too intimate and serene to be a D ticket without drastically changing the concept. The issue with the ride is there's not enough of it.

The ride is like removing half the animals from Maharajah Jungle Trek or Gorilla Falls - they'd still be nice animal enclosures remaining to experience but would feel subpar if you are done too quickly.

 

[UNCgolf]

Nah. The ride is too intimate and serene to be a D ticket without drastically changing the concept. The issue with the ride is there's not enough of it.

The ride is like removing half the animals from Maharajah Jungle Trek or Gorilla Falls - they'd still be nice animal enclosures remaining to experience but would feel subpar.

It's about the overall length more than anything else. I don't think Disney has ever built a C ticket ride that was longer than 5 minutes.

 

[doctornick]

It's about the overall length more than anything else. I don't think Disney has ever built a C ticket ride that was longer than 5 minutes.

Well, that all depends on what one considers a "C-ticket" or whatnot. But I don't think it's really true. Three Cabelleros is about 7 minutes for example. Littler Mermaid is about 6:30.

 

[UNCgolf]

But that’s what the setting feels like it demands. RJ is D- or E-level sets with nothing in them. Toad was a bunch of painted flats, but it felt more complete because things happened and the aesthetic was consistent and C-level. RJ isn’t a C, it’s an unfinished chunk of an E.

Things do happen, though, at least to an extent. It's not just static everywhere; NRJ may have the best use of screens/projections of any Disney ride. It's one of the many things about the ride's design I wish they'd learn from and use elsewhere.

To be fair, I also don't think a ride has to have specific action or any kind of narrative to work. If I feel immersed/transported to another place, then the ride has nailed maybe the most important aspect of a themed attraction (which is also why heavily screen based rides don't usually work well for me, especially for repeat rides, because I never really feel transported without inhabiting a physical space). A D or E ticket may need more than that, but I don't think a C does. I think the ride would potentially be diminished if they'd attempted to force some action into it because it would fundamentally alter the experience.

I'm not arguing it's a perfect attraction; it certainly isn't that. And of course all of this is subjective. But I'd rather ride it than probably all of the Ds they've built in the past couple of decades, and even some of the Es.

 

[UNCgolf]

Well, that all depends on what one considers a "C-ticket" or whatnot. But I don't think it's really true. Three Cabelleros is about 7 minutes for example. Littler Mermaid is about 6:30.

I don't think there was ever any intention for Little Mermaid to be a C ticket. They spent over $100 million on it.

Three Caballeros might count (I'd personally consider it a C for sure) but I have no idea what they considered those World Showcase attractions (most of which were never built).