DAK 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

[haveyoumetmark]

He is literally a raider.

I don’t want to be pedantic but he is literally an archaeologist. It’s a little more complicated than “he is a literally a raider.” He is a hero not a villain. Is Seeker a raider too because he wants to steal an iguanadon? We are splitting hairs here. Sorry you don’t see how it fits.

 

[celluloid]

I don’t want to be pedantic but he is literally an archaeologist. It’s a little more complicated than “he is a literally a raider.” He is a hero not a villain. Is Seeker a raider too because he wants to steal an iguanadon? We are splitting hairs here. Sorry you don’t see how it fits.

Seeker was not a hero of a story nor a five film lore of raiding temples and fighting ideologies. Seeker is an example of getting into trouble with an inciting incident. Sort of a less pathetic Nerdy Scoundrel.

You state the issue. Indy is a stoic hero character.

Other than an IP name. What would Indy do in the attraction?

I don't think it is me not seeing. I think plenty understand how it is not a good fit.

If Indy was purely just an archeologist. Then stretching him into a paleontologist in an old temple in this ride system in the get go as it was already a hit at DL like it was.

They made the ride system work for a high concept for Animal Kingdom because...
Indy, although popular was not a great fit.

 

[Timothy_Q]

A Bug's Life as a movie doesn't fit the themes of DAK either and I've never seen anyone complaining

They took a story about anthropomorphic animals dealing with social issues and oppression and made an attraction that focuses on the importance of bugs to the natural world and their connection to humans

The same kinds of adjustments can be made with Encanto and Indy if they choose to
(obviously we can be cautious based on recent IP rides, but there 100% is a way to make them work)

 

[celluloid]

A Bug's Life as a movie doesn't fit the themes of DAK either and I've never seen anyone complaining

They took a story about anthropomorphic animals dealing with social issues and oppression and made an attraction that focuses on the importance of bugs to the natural world and their connection to humans

The same kinds of adjustments can be made with Encanto and Indy if they choose to
(obviously we can be cautious based on recent IP rides, but there 100% is a way to make them work)

What?
A bugs life plot features the cycle of ants having to serve grasshoppers. Although we give it human qualities with anthropomorphic. Most of the humor of the movie is when the bugs are You don't propose a good argument here.
The show, is all of the roles and adaptations the bug world has and how they are important.

 

[cjkeating]

They took a story about anthropomorphic animals dealing with social issues and oppression and made an attraction that focuses on the importance of bugs to the natural world and their connection to humans

The same kinds of adjustments can be made with Encanto and Indy if they choose to
(obviously we can be cautious based on recent IP rides, but there 100% is a way to make them work)

I think we have all lost so much faith in WDI based on their thematically inappropriate additions in recent years that we naturally and understandably fear the worst.

 

[Timothy_Q]

What?
A bugs life plot features the cycle of ants having to serve grasshoppers.

Wait until you learn about allegories

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I don’t want to be pedantic but he is literally an archaeologist. It’s a little more complicated than “he is a literally a raider.” He is a hero not a villain. Is Seeker a raider too because he wants to steal an iguanadon? We are splitting hairs here. Sorry you don’t see how it fits.

What Seeker was trying to do would have arguably saved the Iguanadon from being wiped out from the meteor impact. So I dunno if i'd say that's an accurate analogy. Plus as stated, he's also a fool who wrongly derails the actual mission against his boss' orders.

I don't know if you've been tuned in on current world affairs regarding archeology and museums, but there has actually been quite a lot of stink being tossed at them. Accusations of having stolen artifacts and treasures from their rightful owners. Or refusing to return items that were lent to them. The very first scene of Raiders had Indy raid a sacred temple of an indigenous tribe in an attempt to steal a sacred idol that they worship. And in Temple of Doom, while he does ultimately hand the sacred stone back to the people in the village, he does concede to being after the artifacts for fortune and glory.

A lot of activists equate the behavior of archeologists and museums as colonization, in a negative context. For that reason, i'm somewhat surprised that Disney still has an interest in using Indiana Jones IP in their parks at all. This isn't my own opinion of the IP for the record, but I do have to wonder why Disney has largely ignored the IP's many controversies.

 

[MisterPenguin]

A Bug's Life as a movie doesn't fit the themes of DAK either and I've never seen anyone complaining

They took a story about anthropomorphic animals dealing with social issues and oppression and made an attraction that focuses on the importance of bugs to the natural world and their connection to humans

The same kinds of adjustments can be made with Encanto and Indy if they choose to
(obviously we can be cautious based on recent IP rides, but there 100% is a way to make them work)

In the Lion King Ride, they can address ecological issues. E.g., they can have the lions kill and eat all the poachers.

Circle of life!!!

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Sorry to play catch up btw, but is this discussion of a DAK clone of Paris' Lion King boat ride just random fan speculation/hope, or was it actually credibly rumored by someone here or elsewhere?

EDIT- Ah so it came from Henry Mystic?

 

[Timothy_Q]

In the Lion King Ride, they can address ecological issues. E.g., they can have the lions kill and eat all the poachers.

Circle of life!!!

Great narrative follow-up to the original safari

"You hate them from Kilimanjaro, now see them meet their fate at the new Lion King musical adventure!"

 

[celluloid]

Wait until you learn about allegories

Wait until you can practice discourse before posting.
What you propose would be called a logical fallacy.

A story can have an allegory while still also including aspects of the attributes of the animal and their roles. Don't act like hat it is a mutually exclusive thing
A bug's life does this heavily. That is why it works for Tough to Be a Bug. A show with humor about bugs and their roles.

Any animated film of anthropomorphic creature or inanimate/abstract object will be personification and an allegory to some extent because stories are made to entertain and by humans. You or anyone who keeps pointing out that Lion King is based largely on Hamlet is not saying anything that takes its appropriateness of animal roles in nature away as a staples pf those properties. That's why they have been easy to include since day one of Animal Kingdom.

 

[Timothy_Q]

I think we have all lost so much faith in WDI based on their thematically inappropriate additions in recent years that we naturally and understandably fear the worst.

100%

I had a tiny bit of hope FEA would tackle Norwegian culture in *some* way

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yeah, the Lion King animals are anthropomorphic to an extent, but they're still functionally animals living in the natural world. They're not remotely like the Zootopia "animals".

I agree that it's probably not the best fit for the park, though.

If Lion King isn't appropriate for the park, than there are very few IPs that would work for the park. The fact that it's been in the park since inception already contradicts this opinion.

Joe Rohde has been consistent on his themes of the park:

• The intrinsic and superior value of nature (An overgrown temple with animals residing inside exemplifies this without outwardly stating it)
• Personal Call to Action (all this has to be is a parting message at the end of the ride)
• Transformation through adventure (this is probably the most generic of the themes)

One of the signature songs from the Lion King is the Circle of Life. It's an underlying theme of the movie. Now, does Festival of the Lion King hit that message home particularly hard? No, not really. To that I say, "Yeah, but still."

 

[RSoxNo1]

That part yes.

Indy is irrelevant to the adventure at that point. You have just described Serka Zong. So a similar theme and concept fits even though repeated well around the corner.

What Indy does, is raid temples and set fire to animals while searching for idols or stopping bad ideologies of cultures. That is his archetype. What does Indy do when he gets in?

There's a theory postulated by Amy on Big Bang Theory (I'm sure this isn't the first incident of this) that Indy is also irrelevant to the plot of Raiders.

Indiana Jones is being characterized as the antithesis of the park and it’s simply not true. He’s an archaeologist not an oil tycoon. He can fit right in without much contortion. I’ll let the story experts worry about why he’s there and what he does when he gets in.

Exactly this.

When a park has a strict set of thematic rules that need to be followed there is always a risk of dilution of those themes. That being said, I believe it was on The Season Pass podcast where Tony Baxter used Indiana Jones as an example of an IP that could have a story treatment that would work in each of the four WDW parks.

Indy exists in a world with magical macguffins that would allow for interactions with animals, real, imaginary or extinct. Now, whether or not they do this remains to be seen. I think the connection was tougher with something like Pandora / AVATAR and the integration of that within the themes of the park was flawless.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

Dinoland is impeccably well themed. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s a poor theme.

Personally, I love the theme of *half* the land. What I call the “institute side” of the land that progresses from Boneyard to Restaurantosaurus to Dinosaur is fantastic and has this great “woodsy” and “lived in” feeling. Really great and refreshing to have all of this dino stuff that isn’t Jurassic Park. Take some time before it all closes to read some of the bulletin boards in the restaurant and around the boneyard and land in general, great world building.

The Dinorama side is what it is, the giftshop and some of the other surroundings are well themed but Dinorama is truly not a great theme even though it’s does exactly what it’s trying to do. It shouldn’t bring down the really great half of the land. I think expanding the digsite theming to the Dinorama plot would be great and so thematically appropriate for the land and park as a whole.

 

[celluloid]

There's a theory postulated by Amy on Big Bang Theory (I'm sure this isn't the first incident of this) that Indy is also irrelevant to the plot of Raiders.

that has been discussed fo rsure as a movie joke. It is the definition of some and Disney not understandaing the point of a movie.

You could say the same thing whether the invited in the movie Jurassic Park never went to Isla Nublar. Nedry still would have stolen the embryos and messed up security systems and the park would have been a failure.

With Indy, Disney is now like the people who claim the same thing would have happened whether Indy was there or not.

The point of Indy in the original raiders is he is so cocksure and to the point of arrogance of adventure. He goes for it. Even after almost dying. Remember the lines later in the films "I had it. I almost had it in my hands" regardless of all the times he could of died in various ways. Yet at the end, against Belloq, who claims he and Indy are not so different. One push would turn Indy into the way he hunts for treasure ruthlessly.

yet at the end, his knowledge and faith in what is going to happen he tells Marion to close her eyes as he does the same.
The one time Indy humbled himself saved lives and got the Ark out of evil of Germany's hands and in a place with Top Men, whether his or not.

He never gets the treasure.

Rocky Balboa never wins the fight.

Jurassic Park never successfully completes a tour(let's not go on about JW movies)

Toto is still likely to be euthenized.

The big Bang theory had a good joke and it makes for a funny thing to notice, but it is not the point of the film or the main character.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ultimately, when you have a park like Disney's Animal Kingdom, you will have to create more things out of whole cloth in order to tie those new attractions back to the themes of the park. Since that's a non-starter for today's Disney company, you need to pick the stories and the parts of those stories that work. For me personally, there are story treatments for Encanto and Indy that seem to work.

If Coco is a Oaxacan carousel with the Coco name attached, I'll take that too. That's a tie back to real world culture and their stylistic interpretation of animals that has already been represented in the architecture of the park.

 

[celluloid]

Ultimately, when you have a park like Disney's Animal Kingdom, you will have to create more things out of whole cloth in order to tie those new attractions back to the themes of the park. Since that's a non-starter for today's Disney company, you need to pick the stories and the parts of those stories that work. For me personally, there are story treatments for Encanto and Indy that seem to work.

If Coco is a Oaxacan carousel with the Coco name attached, I'll take that too. That's a tie back to real world culture and their stylistic interpretation of animals that has already been represented in the architecture of the park.

I think that is fair.

No one is saying there are not ways to make it fit good enough for some standards. What everyone even bummed by Indy as a solution for a retheme is bummed by a retheme rather than something new. Nervous about the results and ultimately knows it is not an easy fit as the character and property would typically be.


I mentioned before if we have to get Indy, one of the best things they can do is lean into it with Indy facing off against a temple of snakes and based around respect of such. An ultimate bad situation for him, and having to realize snakes are somehow a key. If you don't lean into it than the character has no point of being there or represented. Lean into it with snake exhibits built into the queue line and post show areas. His arrogance changed.

The taglines tie into the IP while being Animal Kingdom "Yes, it had to be snakes!" on marketing material.

If they want to keep dinos, that has me nervous we are going to be in a temple where somehow deep in it there are dinos preserved. Indy with dinos. That could be ok, but it has me more worried it would be rushed set pieces built around a few animatronics they will keep.

It is hard to do these things when you are working with sound alikes and lack of likeness approvals.

 

[cjkeating]

If Lion King isn't appropriate for the park, than there are very few IPs that would work for the park. The fact that it's been in the park since inception already contradicts this opinion.

Joe Rohde has been consistent on his themes of the park:

• The intrinsic and superior value of nature (An overgrown temple with animals residing inside exemplifies this without outwardly stating it)
• Personal Call to Action (all this has to be is a parting message at the end of the ride)
• Transformation through adventure (this is probably the most generic of the themes)

One of the signature songs from the Lion King is the Circle of Life. It's an underlying theme of the movie. Now, does Festival of the Lion King hit that message home particularly hard? No, not really. To that I say, "Yeah, but still."

believe it was on The Season Pass podcast where Tony Baxter used Indiana Jones as an example of an IP that could have a story treatment that would work in each of the four WDW parks.

I think the approach Tony Baxter highlighted re: Indy is the concern people have about Lion King. Will the LK ride be the DAK story treatment of the MK story treatment?

As far as we know for Paris the "Lion King Land" will feature a book report Lion King Splash Mountain style ride. Would this fit in Africa at DAK? I don't think so?

Does a 'local travelling production' of the Lion King a real life musical set in a real life town in a theater building matching the aesthetics of Harambe fit? I think it does.

 

[HMF]

Ultimately, when you have a park like Disney's Animal Kingdom, you will have to create more things out of whole cloth in order to tie those new attractions back to the themes of the park. Since that's a non-starter for today's Disney company, you need to pick the stories and the parts of those stories that work. For me personally, there are story treatments for Encanto and Indy that seem to work.

If Coco is a Oaxacan carousel with the Coco name attached, I'll take that too. That's a tie back to real world culture and their stylistic interpretation of animals that has already been represented in the architecture of the park.

So, We just surrender thematic integrity in the name of the IP mandate? I would rather the park stay completely stagnant. As I said in my article, with Rohde gone the park will go the way of EPCOT and DHS. Just a place to stick IP's with no rhyme or reason.