News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

I think the nuance that is missing is that RCID was granted those “powers” because there was a real need. Is there another landowner in the state who would actually want a version of RCID over their land? I can’t say no for sure, but most businesses would want nothing to do with that.

State: Hey XYZ company we want to create a special district which will cover your utility and EMS services and will pave the public roads that happen to cross through your property.

XYZ: aren’t those services already covered by the local taxes that I pay?

State: yes, but now they will be covered by a special district that you (as the only taxpayer) will pay for

XYZ: OK, so I will see a reduction in my other real estate taxes paid then?

State: oh no, you will pay the same amount and then pay an extra assessment on top of your regular taxes

XYZ: say what????? Disney can keep their “advantage” I’m good

Yes, there are other landowners who do get this sort of arrangement of paying county taxes and then paying additional district taxes for a variety of services. This is exactly what is done with community development districts.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, there are other landowners who do get this sort of arrangement of paying county taxes and then paying additional district taxes for a variety of services. This is exactly what is done with community development districts.

But do they pay for EMS services and road paving and utilities. I can see a development district specific for something they deem to benefit their business like the recently mentioned train station for Universal, but how many districts just cover basic services like RCID?

 

[lazyboy97o]

But do they pay for EMS services and road paving and utilities. I can see a development district specific for something they deem to benefit their business like the recently mentioned train station for Universal, but how many districts just cover basic services like RCID?

The basic powers offered to a CDD include water management, water services, waste services, mosquito control, roads and bridges, electrical connections (but not service), transit services, parks and conservation, fire prevention (which includes EMS services) and even schools. The Villages is a very big example of most of these powers being exercised including the schools and fire department (which means The Villages even had some de facto self control over fire code enforcement).

 

[GoofGoof]

The basic powers offered to a CDD include water management, water services, waste services, mosquito control, roads and bridges, electrical connections (but not service), transit services, parks and conservation, fire prevention (which includes EMS services) and even schools. The Villages is a very big example of most of these powers being exercised including the schools and fire department (which means The Villages even had some de facto self control over fire code enforcement).

The villages districts may be the closest thing to RCID but based on what I’ve seen their special districts act more like a glorified homeowners association providing things like common recreation facilities, entertainment, neighborhood security, etc as well. Either way, my original point was most of the special districts are more narrowly defined than RCID and most companies doing business in FL would have no interest in having their own RCID.

If we take this full circle, how would the residents at the Villages react if they found out their special district that they pay into and is governed by a board elected from landowners was being taken over by the state and residents would have no control over tax rates or how the money is spent. Some people living there may support the Governor’s actions with Disney and RCID without realizing how it could later impact them. The powers in charge today may be “on their side” but stuff changes over time so you never know when that will change.

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

This should be of interest to many of you...

 

[lazyboy97o]

The villages districts may be the closest thing to RCID but based on what I’ve seen their special districts act more like a glorified homeowners association providing things like common recreation facilities, entertainment, neighborhood security, etc as well. Either way, my original point was most of the special districts are more narrowly defined than RCID and most companies doing business in FL would have no interest in having their own RCID.

The Villages also built out much of the infrastructure. They had their own fire department (it’s in the process of changing) and run their own schools. They’re narrower, but it’s not that big of a gap, especially when combined with other offerings. They’re absolutely powers that would interest others, particularly those who already exercise them partially. As developers though they’re not interested in keeping people out so incorporating their land to gain access to many of the additional powers would mean more immediately losing control as a municipality would require residents to have a vote immediately.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Members of the RCID board of supervisors have close associations with Disney. Disney picks who is a resident of the district. TWDC effectively controls RCID.

This is not a bad thing. Board members look out for the best interests of the district. These just happen to mostly coincide with Disney's best interests.

RCID did, on paper, have an impressive array of powers. They are not all-powerful but for a Florida special district, they are pretty powerful.

But this argument is beside the point. The real point is that RCID worked for everyone, including the state, nearby residents, and Disney. There's no good reason to dissolve it.

I agree. The only reason it's being dissolved is because DeSantis fight with TWDC. The state always had the power to dissolve RCID but the state left them alone until now. I my opinion, both TWDC and the state of Florida were at fault here.

It really is too bad. The state of FL and TWDC used to be partners. Not anymore.

You think Disney builds stuff in WDW slow now? You aint seen nothin yet.

 

[peter11435]

I agree. The only reason it's being dissolved is because DeSantis fight with TWDC. The state always had the power to dissolve RCID but the state left them alone until now. I my opinion, both TWDC and the state of Florida were at fault here.

It really is too bad. The state of FL and TWDC used to be partners. Not anymore.

You think Disney builds stuff in WDW slow now? You aint seen nothin yet.

The state of FL and TWDC will be partners again eventually. This will pass, the damage however will be here to stay.

 

[Dranth]

I agree. The only reason it's being dissolved is because DeSantis fight with TWDC. The state always had the power to dissolve RCID but the state left them alone until now. I my opinion, both TWDC and the state of Florida were at fault here.

It really is too bad. The state of FL and TWDC used to be partners. Not anymore.

You think Disney builds stuff in WDW slow now? You aint seen nothin yet.

No, the state is the only one at fault. I don't care what political leaning anyone has, the state going after a company for disagreeing is dangerous. There are a ton of ways the Governor could have gone about this that didn't result in this mess but instead his choice was to strip away a setup that worked for both Disney and the State with zero thought of legality or even how it would impact Florida itself.

It was only after it was pointed out to him that the local taxpayers are the ones getting screwed because of this and that the state of Florida itself is on the hook for outstanding bonds that his poorly thought out and ridiculous "plan" materialized. His "great" idea to solve this problem currently seems to be to have the legislature purposely violate state laws and constitution to create a new special district that somehow only taxes Disney without them having any say in how it is run or who is put in charge. There is roughly a zero percent chance that survives the courts.

So, if we continue the way we are going, we likely end up with a long, drawn-out court proceeding that cost the state a ton of money and in the end get them nothing.

 

[Disstevefan1]

No, the state is the only one at fault. I don't care what political leaning anyone has, the state going after a company for disagreeing is dangerous. There are a ton of ways the Governor could have gone about this that didn't result in this mess but instead his choice was to strip away a setup that worked for both Disney and the State with zero thought of legality or even how it would impact Florida itself.

It was only after it was pointed out to him that the local taxpayers are the ones getting screwed because of this and that the state of Florida itself is on the hook for outstanding bonds that his poorly thought out and ridiculous "plan" materialized. His "great" idea to solve this problem currently seems to be to have the legislature purposely violate state laws and constitution to create a new special district that somehow only taxes Disney without them having any say in how it is run or who is put in charge. There is roughly a zero percent chance that survives the courts.

So, if we continue the way we are going, we likely end up with a long, drawn-out court proceeding that cost the state a ton of money and in the end get them nothing.

I agree, why Florida dissolved RCID was wrong, but Florida always had the power to do it.

TWDC and Florida used to play nice together. No more.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Still not understanding how the state can just take control of an elected district? Can some explain how that works for the towns of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake?

 

[networkpro]

I agree. The only reason it's being dissolved is because DeSantis fight with TWDC. The state always had the power to dissolve RCID but the state left them alone until now. I my opinion, both TWDC and the state of Florida were at fault here.

It really is too bad. The state of FL and TWDC used to be partners. Not anymore.

You think Disney builds stuff in WDW slow now? You aint seen nothin yet.

Doesn't matter in the long run as there are other competitors these days for those vacation dollars, such as the Comcast-owned properties up I-4.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Still not understanding how the state can just take control of an elected district? Can some explain how that works for the towns of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake?

I don’t think anyone can answer that because no details have been provided.

If it were me I would stick to the argument that the existing district is an unconstitutional mistake that has to be dissolved because it was not authorized under the current constitution. Then, since this leaves obligations made by the state to other parties unfulfilled the state will now create and control a new district to ensure these obligations are met going forward. Spin it as the state is fixing a problem that was allowed to go on too long but because we’re so swell we’re going to take responsibility for it and protect the people from having to bear the costs of this mistake.

Ronnie, have your people call my people and we can work out the details. My fee is a mere 40 pieces of silver.

 

[mkt]

Still not understanding how the state can just take control of an elected district? Can some explain how that works for the towns of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake?

They can't. The law they passed could fairly easily be struct down on judicial review, if the state of Florida weren't so hyperpartisan.

And since Florida is so hyperpartisan in all 3 branches of state government, there's no checks and balances. Without checks and balances, those in Tallahassee do what they want and get away with it.

In short, Florida is not to be trusted to do business deals with. This is third world crap.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They can't. The law they passed could fairly easily be struct down on judicial review, if the state of Florida weren't so hyperpartisan.

And since Florida is so hyperpartisan in all 3 branches of state government, there's no checks and balances. Without checks and balances, those in Tallahassee do what they want and get away with it.

In short, Florida is not to be trusted to do business deals with. This is third world crap.

While there are cases of bizarre and egregious judicial action, recent history has shown a number of judges strike down the desires of their political associates. While this has happened mostly at the federal level it still shows that there some level of importance placed on precedent and rule of law.

I think the bigger concern, that is happening right now with little fanfare, is the possibility of the state just ignoring that legislation has been struck down and moving forward.

 

[mkt]

I think the bigger concern, that is happening right now with little fanfare, is the possibility of the state just ignoring that legislation has been struck down and moving forward.

I'd give the chances of this happening 100%.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Doesn't matter in the long run as there are other competitors these days for those vacation dollars, such as the Comcast-owned properties up I-4.

Previously, I never thought Universal Orlando could put a dent in WDW’s business, but now I am beginning to re think that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The law that was passed to dissolve RCID appears to fit within the legal limits of the Florida state constitution. I don’t think Disney has much they can fight there.

A variety of ways the dissolution law would not hold up have been discussed.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The law that was passed to dissolve RCID appears to fit within the legal limits of the Florida state constitution. I don’t think Disney has much they can fight there.

However, it’s difficult to imagine how the state will pass a new law to create a new district without the approval of landowners or residents. Months ago, this was discussed in great detail on this thread.

In addition, Disney would seem to have an ironclad First Amendment case, if they want to go that route.

But Iger has said he wants the company to have a less politicized profile. Fighting this might only play into DeSantis’ hands, giving him something to run on for the next 22 months. (Most legal challenges probably will take longer than this to resolve.)

Like it or not, DeSantis won with a crushing 59% of the vote. Meanwhile, Disney’s popularity with Florida residents has plummeted due to much higher prices, limits on annual pass sales, and hardball tactics with local unions & businesses.

Many are not going to like this, but Disney’s best long-term play might be to keep a low profile. Once the governor moves on, Disney almost certainly will be able to get what it wants.

Long-term, Disney is going to win this, one way or another.

I agree with this, dissolving Reedy Creek doesn’t benefit anyone, it’s 100% a political ploy so the quieter they fight it the better it’ll go.

The legislature has already indicated they want to reverse course, they know it’s a no win situation so let them fight the governor. He’s the one and only person who benefits from this and that benefit only continues if Disney fights publicly and keeps it in the spotlight.

 

[mikejs78]

Florida always had the power to do it

The legislature didn't seem to think so about two decades ago. They produced a full report saying that the district couldn't be dissolved in the face of a possibility of Disney being acquired and no longer owning WDW.

The law that was passed to dissolve RCID appears to fit within the legal limits of the Florida state constitution. I don’t think Disney has much they can fight there.

However, it’s difficult to imagine how the state will pass a new law to create a new district without the approval of landowners or residents. Months ago, this was discussed in great detail on this thread.

In addition, Disney would seem to have an ironclad First Amendment case, if they want to go that route.

But Iger has said he wants the company to have a less politicized profile. Fighting this might only play into DeSantis’ hands, giving him something to run on for the next 22 months. (Most legal challenges probably will take longer than this to resolve.)

Like it or not, DeSantis won with a crushing 59% of the vote. Meanwhile, Disney’s popularity with Florida residents has plummeted due to much higher prices, limits on annual pass sales, and hardball tactics with local unions & businesses.

Many are not going to like this, but Disney’s best long-term play might be to keep a low profile. Once the governor moves on, Disney almost certainly will be able to get what it wants.

Long-term, Disney is going to win this, one way or another.

DeSantis has also said that the legislation will transfer the district's debt to Disney. Even if Disney were going to not fight the state-controlled district, I have a hard time thinking that they will quietly allow a ton of debt to be transferred to their balance sheet.