Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[TheMaxRebo]

Yes it's there own doing but I don't think it was intentional. In theory the system should work and I'm sure when they were testing it out with CMs it worked wonderfully. When this many guests are using it each day it overwhelms the system.

IMO had they capped sales from day 1 I don't think they would have as many complaints.

I think they didn't think it would be this issue - I know Scott Gustin said he had talked to some folks in the tech groups and was asking about various situations like "well, what happens when this ride is out for the day? Or what if there aren't any left to book or next one available anywhere is 4 hours out?" And their response was "oh, that will never happen"

I think if they knew the take up would have been this high they would have started at a higher $ figure and capped it - which I think will come, but we shall see

 

[Jrb1979]

FP+ didn't have the volume issues that Genie+ does. It can't be said enough that when people pay for something, they are going to try their hardest to get their money's worth. Even if it means sitting on their phone all afternoon. The balking point for FP+ searches was much, much lower.

I agree with that. Mainly due to the majority of guests would book their 3 each day and that's it.

 

[Jrb1979]

Capping is not going to fix the bad design of this. They have went backwards, not forward

Also testing with CMs is fine, but if you don’t test with common guests who used the old system and get their feedback it may not be real feedback.

Also with AI and all the data they have they should be able to design a model of how this would work before releasing it to the masses and it not working well. But of course this takes management, common sense, and a decent IT department which apparent Disney doesn’t have

It would fix a lot of the problems. Outside of the 7am part, the biggest complaint seems to be rides running out of availability quickly. That's due to the amount of guests using Genie+. Take away half the guests using it right now and a lot more availability will open up.

 

[Jenny72]

We're all focused on how to get Genie+ to work by raising prices and/or capping sales, but this misses the rest of the picture: how unbelievably miserable this will be (already is) for people without it. Want to pay thousands of dollars to feel like a second class citizen over and over again? Come to Disney and experience the frustration and degradation!

It's one thing when this happens at my local downmarket theme park. It takes them like 20 minutes to load a carousel, and the mascot looks like he wandered out of a high school gymnasium. But Disney can't survive without the (upper) middle class. It's one thing to take away parades, lower portion sizes, and so on, but it's entirely another to repeatedly rub this group's face in the fact that they're not wealthy. This is a qualitatively different type of change than the previous cost-cutting, and in my view, this is what finally will impact loyalty and sales. The one thing this "aspirational" type of visitor doesn't want to feel is lower class. This class dynamic is different for Disney than any other theme park. I can't think of a bigger mistake they've made and a clearer sign that they don't understand their own park and its particular status as a cultural icon and a marker of social status.

 

[pdude81]

There's alot they could do, hopefully Disney doesn't misinterpreted feedback. The farthest it could go is if they suddenly added another ILL attraction from each park (so 3 total from each but keep the 2 ILL limit), raise the prices on all, then convert Genie+ to a free perk. Then Disney would heavily advertise the perk, with little attention on what isn’t included. But hey we wanted free back.

I think the only way they could get away with a free product is to limit to one skip per ticket. FP+ helped shift around traffic but ultimately when you bring in more people then you're giving away more free skips. The lines just kept getting longer, and AP guests could come in for their free rides if they were local. I don't think free is in the cards, and not specifically because of greed. It would just be even more people fighting over the same passes.

 

[pdude81]

We're all focused on how to get Genie+ to work by raising prices and/or capping sales, but this misses the rest of the picture: how unbelievably miserable this will be (already is) for people without it. Want to pay thousands of dollars to feel like a second class citizen over and over again? Come to Disney and experience the frustration and degradation!

This is a fair take, but there is also a contingent of people who would rather less people skip the lines so that the lines move faster, without having to pay for it. Now adding those people back into standby does increase some standby lines, but it also cuts down on them waiting in a physical line while virtually waiting in another. I don't think we can be sure what the net effect on standby lines would be if this were capped.

 

[mikejs78]

From what I understand this may be by design. They don't want people constantly attempting to trade up reservations - this would make inventory even worse throughout the day.

Because if you could trade up, there would be no risk in making any reservation at all. You just keep trading up over and over for a better reservation. Right now, you have to be fairly sure you want the reservation. All in all, the number of slots used stays the same but with people constantly swapping reservations, the volume on the system would be much higher which would affect inventory.

It may be by design, but that along with not allowing time selection results in a *much* worse experience for the guest, especially when trying to work around ADRs, fireworks, other things, etc. Also, it would be fine if times went sequentially and never reappeared, but that's not the case.

If I want to ride BTTR but I know I'm not going to MK until after dinner, I have to constantly wait on my phone until the return time gets to that time.

It may have been by design, but it was a poor design decision. Literally every person I've spoken to who uses G+ has complained about this aspect of it.

 

[Chi84]

Capping is not going to fix the bad design of this. They have went backwards, not forward

Also testing with CMs is fine, but if you don’t test with common guests who used the old system and get their feedback it may not be real feedback.

Also with AI and all the data they have they should be able to design a model of how this would work before releasing it to the masses and it not working well. But of course this takes management, common sense, and a decent IT department which apparent Disney doesn’t have

I agree. You think there's dissatisfaction now? Try capping sales at a price point people can reasonably afford and then telling 90% of them they can't have it.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Valid point but I was referring to the majority of Disney deluxe resorts especially ones on the monorail loop. One thing to your point which I would be curious about is renting dvc points and being allowed to go & that price point.

Monorail loop pricing is definitely out of whack this year. AKL same week is only $77/night more than basic room at Caribbean Beach (or $462 for 6 nights total), so not 'thousands' more though. (what you previously posted.)

For a family of 4, if we only look at price- no other mod vs. deluxe benefits, and only stayed at AKL/CB for 3 nights, we're only talking a difference of $257, or $257 /4people/2 days = $32 per person per night - or even $16 per hour.

When the alternative is paying $30 for the hassle of G+ and 1 ILL, paying $32 for PM hours looks comparatively reasonable, IMO.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It may be by design, but that along with not allowing time selection results in a *much* worse experience for the guest, especially when trying to work around ADRs, fireworks, other things, etc. Also, it would be fine if times went sequentially and never reappeared, but that's not the case.

If I want to ride BTTR but I know I'm not going to MK until after dinner, I have to constantly wait on my phone until the return time gets to that time.

It may have been by design, but it was a poor design decision. Literally every person I've spoken to who uses G+ has complained about this aspect of it.

Oh, I completely agree. But they are desperate to get inventory where they can and alleviate inventory strain whenever they can. And it's kinda crazy how none of it seems to be working.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I get it... you don't like G+. Neither do I. But my friend has no reason to have lied about her experience last week. So, while Disney may be getting negative feedback from some guests, they are also getting positive feedback, even if you don't want to believe it.

The scales are definitely tipped towards negative feedback from what several people I trust have stated about consumer feedback that Disney has received regarding G+. Of course some are giving positive feedback, but I believe the majority of the feedback received has been negative. That's not me hating on the system, that's simply what several people with connections have reported.

Capping sales will mean one thing and one thing only - The price will rise by a commensurate amount, plus probably 10-20%. So, using hypothetical numbers - If it's been 10000 G+ sales per day at $15 per person, capping it at 5000 per day will likely mean $35 per person. We know they aren't going to reduce that revenue stream one cent and will look to increase it, because, well, that's Bob. And Josh.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Oh, I completely agree. But they are desperate to get inventory where they can and alleviate inventory strain whenever they can. And it's kinda crazy how none of it seems to be working.

It's as if current Disney management (and/or those making these decisions) doesn't really understand their own theme parks...

 

[DisneyfanMA]

One thing I will add is many say adding more capacity would fix Genie+. I do agree they need more attractions but adding more won't fix Genie+. It would still need to be capped. There is a reason every other park limits their skip the line system.

First I do agree it needs a cap (which as someone else pointed could be done with a hard cap, a major price increase or both).

Additionally many here have written G+ works decently well at MK. Why? Because MK has the most attractions worthy of it. I suspect if they added 2 to 3 more mid to upper level rides at the other 3 parks without dropping anything would be a huge boost. That said I don't know why I waste my breath on it because it's hard to see that happening, and even if they did it tomorrow it would still take several years to see them open.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

Because if you could trade up, there would be no risk in making any reservation at all. You just keep trading up over and over for a better reservation. Right now, you have to be fairly sure you want the reservation. All in all, the number of slots used stays the same but with people constantly swapping reservations, the volume on the system would be much higher which would affect inventory.

Plus people complain about being chained to their phone now. Imagine with this?

Listen I think being able to skip a few lines is pretty good and worth not actually standing for 2 hrs in a line. That's the goal right? I'm even willing to captain the phone app for the family if it means we get to line skip 2 to 3 big attractions per day with G+. If its less than that it feels like I was ripped off.

 

[crazy4disney]

From what I understand this may be by design. They don't want people constantly attempting to trade up reservations - this would make inventory even worse throughout the day.

Monorail loop pricing is definitely out of whack this year. AKL same week is only $77/night more than basic room at Caribbean Beach (or $462 for 6 nights total), so not 'thousands' more though. (what you previously posted.)

For a family of 4, if we only look at price- no other mod vs. deluxe benefits, and only stayed at AKL/CB for 3 nights, we're only talking a difference of $257, or $257 /4people/2 days = $32 per person per night - or even $16 per hour.

When the alternative is paying $30 for the hassle of G+ and 1 ILL, paying $32 for PM hours looks comparatively reasonable, IMO.

So you can use your comparison & i can use mine which covers more hotels & if you compare vs Value even more of a difference & we both can be correct. Sound like a plan? Now we can now move on from this. I agree withyou. You agreed with me. I dk what what week you are looking but the dates imgoing 8/26-9/5 using your hotels. I see a difference of $145 per night + tax from cheapest room at CB vs AKL… now for say $900 family of 4 for 6 nights to get 2 extra hours. yea may be worth it to upgrade if thats what your options were. But this is Disneys logic. Its only x amount more and this is only x amount more so on so forth. & lets face it. This is Not a replacement for Genie + or substitute at all.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

We're all focused on how to get Genie+ to work by raising prices and/or capping sales, but this misses the rest of the picture: how unbelievably miserable this will be (already is) for people without it. Want to pay thousands of dollars to feel like a second class citizen over and over again? Come to Disney and experience the frustration and degradation!

I think the idea was under G+ the standby lines would move faster than under FP+ as the take up would be much less ... So instead of 10:1 ration of FP queue vs standby it could be 5:1 or whatever

The problem is the take up rate was so high, if anything it is worse. If they cap it to 10% world guests (or whatever that # needs to be) then they can get the situation desired where standby moves faster and the LL queue isn't as big a negative

... In theory at least

 

[Disney Glimpses]

It's as if current Disney management (and/or those making these decisions) doesn't really understand their own theme parks...

They do understand their theme parks but they constantly underestimate how much money people are willing to give them.

 

[crazy4disney]

They do understand their theme parks but they constantly underestimate how much money people are willing to give them.

Thats why they should have simple kept FP and charged for it and called it a day… maybe even charged more for ability to maybe book sooner or extra rides etc something creative like that.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I've been thinking more about this idea of raising the price an absorbing ILL attractions as Tier 1 attractions.

If they charged $25 during the week and $35 on the weekends and capped purchases to 40,000, that would be $1.15 million in daily revenue (which is more than they are making on Genie+ and ILL combined).

In a 12 hour day, 7DMT and TRON capacity is roughly 40,000 combined. Park hours are often more than 12 hours. This would ensure that, in this example anyways, everyone who purchases it will be basically guaranteed access to either 7DMT or TRON at some point during the day. Caveat is downtime, which is far too common lately.

40,000 is significantly less than they are selling Genie+ right now and would ensure wonderful availability for Tier 2 attractions throughout the day.

And in a week long trip, assuming you bought it everyday, you'd be able to ride almost every Tier 1 attraction.

I also believe at this price point, 40,000 would not sell out very quickly. There are also a significant percentage of people that have no interest in Tier 1s, believe it or not (which leaves room for error).

I'd also allow resort guests to purchase it at 9PM the night before with the ability to reserve their first attraction with ability to book 2nd attraction 2 hours after park open and so on. I would also allow guests to pick any time they want.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

They do understand their theme parks but they constantly underestimate how much money people are willing to give them.

"Due to unexpected demand ...." Every. Time.