Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Jeff4272]

In the scenario you describe (Genie+, Park Pass, and ADR, i.e., the current scenario) there is no mechanism for "pre-booking rides." Before 7:00 am, that is. So your question doesn't make sense. Unless, that is, you are really asking one of the two following questions. (I will answer each.)

#1 "Given the current scenario, why wouldn't you want to use Genie+ ("pre-planning rides at 7:00")?"

Answers: Don't want to spend the money. Don't want to look at phone all day. Don't mind standby lines.

#2 "Isn't it better to be able to "pre-plan" your rides days in advance than to do so at midnight and then at 7:00 am?"

If this is your question, then I think most people agree with you and you can stop shouting.

It occurs to me that there is a third thing you may be trying to get at. Maybe this is your question: "If Genie+ were to be replaced by a new system, would you rather it be a pre-planning system or something like Express Pass (no pre-planning)?"

I guess my problem here is that you are not articulating the question clearly enough. Give it another try.

None of the above........This isn't really that hard to understand....everyone else gets it but you

My point was, as long as you have to plan the other aspects of your vacation, wouldn't it be preferable to also pre book your rides like FP+ allowed you to do?.........what is the downside if Disney went back to FP+, forcing you to pre plan rides.......there's ZERO downside since you already HAVE to do all the other planning and those rules are here to stay for good

One of the main complaints about FP+ was you had to book it in advance.........I think that's it's biggest strength, even more so now

the main complaints came from non resort guests........Now that they have to do all this other planning anyway, now what is their reasoning to not bring back FP+ and pre booking?


did i dumb it down enough for you?

 

[Jeff4272]

I don't think everyone is ever going to agree on what works best for who because we all have such vastly different planning styles.

Do I like Genie +? Not particularly. I don't know the answer, but if I could pay individually and be assured a ride and a time I want, I'd be okay with that!

But anyways, for families and larger groups, I think Genie and the park reservation system is MUCH harder on them than it is on us - a couple with no kids.
We go for 9 nights with hoppers, are pretty flexible on rides (been enough, know we'll come back) and are those "weirdos" who actually enjoy just being in the park, soaking up the ambience. I'm up early, every day, so 7 am isn't a big thing for me. Our hopping usually winds up being Epcot or DHS since we stay in Epcot resort area so the after 2 thing is fine. For us, it's all not too bad. Ideal? No, but we can roll with it.

The idea that if we want to switch to a park morning of that's sold out is annoying, but if you have the hopper, there's a work around. We can book Epcot (always available), walk over, check in and then hop to the park we really wanted. After 2 of course.

I do agree, it's more restrictive in the sense there's extra steps now (like what I described just above)

Yeah for $500 more for my family of 5 on our 6 park days

 

[Touchdown]

They should have only allowed people in the theme park to book G+, like what Maxpass was before at DLR. This is what kept inventory high enough in the early hours to use the system well. You would think WDW wants people in the park for as long as possible but they haven’t pulled this lever to encourage it. You could still allow resort guests to pre buy ILL to avoid the chaos that was Rise 2019/early 2020 but ops still seem scared by that experience.

 

[dreday3]

Yeah for $500 more for my family of 5 on our 6 park days

Which is why my post said it's harder on families than on us.

 

[crazy4disney]

None of the above........This isn't really that hard to understand....everyone else gets it but you

My point was, as long as you have to plan the other aspects of your vacation, wouldn't it be preferable to also pre book your rides like FP+ allowed you to do?.........what is the downside if Disney went back to FP+, forcing you to pre plan rides.......there's ZERO downside since you already HAVE to do all the other planning and those rules are here to stay for good

One of the main complaints about FP+ was you had to book it in advance.........I think that's it's biggest strength, even more so now

the main complaints came from non resort guests........Now that they have to do all this other planning anyway, now what is their reasoning to not bring back FP+ and pre booking?


did i dumb it down enough for you?

Again as some non resort guests have stated and from people i know who stay off property 30 days out was NOT always a killer in regards to top tier rides either way you still were able to get 3 rides that were walk on's... the illusion that lines are disappearing w no FP or Genie may be the biggest joke ive heard in the current state Disney is in....

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Sadly, Genie+ is only going to become more expensive, not less. Executive leadership is concerned about the poor guest satisfaction regarding Genie+ but salivating to learn that the reason for such poor guest satisfaction is excess demand. Excess demand means there's room to raise the price, a lot.

 

[solidyne]

None of the above........This isn't really that hard to understand....everyone else gets it but you

My point was, as long as you have to plan the other aspects of your vacation, wouldn't it be preferable to also pre book your rides like FP+ allowed you to do?.........what is the downside if Disney went back to FP+, forcing you to pre plan rides.......there's ZERO downside since you already HAVE to do all the other planning and those rules are here to stay for good

One of the main complaints about FP+ was you had to book it in advance.........I think that's it's biggest strength, even more so now

the main complaints came from non resort guests........Now that they have to do all this other planning anyway, now what is their reasoning to not bring back FP+ and pre booking?


did i dumb it down enough for you?

So it was, indeed, my question #2! Off the top of my head, nope I can't think of a reason to prefer Genie+ over FP+, although surely someone can come up with a reason, good or otherwise. You must acknowledge that there are always costs and alternatives. For example, I could ask, "Why wouldn't ANYONE prefer a Mercedes to a KIA? I mean it's a MUCH better CAR!" Well, who is paying for it? Am I getting it for free? Who is paying for the upkeep? What are the relative MPGs and what is my daily commute? When you ask a question like yours, you have to put it in a specific context. Anyway, yes, you're right. FP+ is better than Genie+.

Also, yes, after seeing your punctuation, grammar, syntax, and absurdly extended ellipses, I'd say you dumbed it down plenty. Thanks!

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Off the top of my head, nope I can't think of a reason to prefer Genie+ over FP+

If you're an AP or an off-site guest, there's some reason to prefer Genie+ over FP+, even in it's current horrible form. With Genie+ you have a significantly higher chance of securing FP+ for popular attractions. Especially large groups. FP+ was a ridiculously huge resort perk. The biggest one that many took for granted because it was so normalized.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Sadly, Genie+ is only going to become more expensive, not less. Executive leadership is concerned about the poor guest satisfaction regarding Genie+ but salivating to learn that the reason for such poor guest satisfaction is excess demand. Excess demand means there's room to raise the price, a lot.

if they seriously think the issue with Genie+ is just because of excess demand then they are doomed

Those executives need to spend a week in the park with their families using it every day doing each of the main rides and then let’s see what they think.

The ones designing the systems and making these decisions never use it like guests do and therein lies the issue. They don’t get it. Obviously

 

[crazy4disney]

Sadly, Genie+ is only going to become more expensive, not less. Executive leadership is concerned about the poor guest satisfaction regarding Genie+ but salivating to learn that the reason for such poor guest satisfaction is excess demand. Excess demand means there's room to raise the price, a lot.

Do we as guest's really think raising prices is going to solve this problem? people are still going to pay and stand by lines are still gonna exist well beyond what people should realistically have to wait and all because this company did nothing to address capacity issues

 

[Disney Glimpses]

if they seriously think the issue with Genie+ is because of excess demand then we are doomed

Those executives need to spend a week in the park with their families using it every day doing each of the main rides and then let’s see what they think.

The issue is excess demand though. If 10% of guests were purchasing it as opposed to the current 33%, the Genie+ experience would be even better than the OG MaxPass experience. You'd be able to reserve attractions all day long.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Do we as guest's really think raising prices is going to solve this problem? people are still going to pay and stand by lines are still gonna exist well beyond what people should realistically have to wait and all because this company did nothing to address capacity issues

More significant changes are coming but price increases are almost definitely coming next year.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The issue is excess demand though. If 10% of guests were purchasing it as opposed to the current 33%, the Genie+ experience would be even better than the OG MaxPass experience. You'd be able to reserve attractions all day long.

AN issue is excess demand

MANY other issues are in the design altogether. If they are blind to this they still have a major problem

 

[crazy4disney]

if they seriously think the issue with Genie+ is just because of excess demand then they are doomed

Those executives need to spend a week in the park with their families using it every day doing each of the main rides and then let’s see what they think.

The ones designing the systems and making these decisions never use it like guests do and therein lies the issue. They don’t get it. Obviously

a week? you are being very generous. i say after 2 days they would all be done and say did we roll out to our loyal and paying guests

 

[Disney Glimpses]

AN issue is excess demand

MANY other issues are in the design altogether

If you're talking about bugs? Sure. 7am is also an issue.

That being said, even with the other issues you are alluding to, if guests were able to secure reservations reliably and consistently from open to close, GSAT would be high and the complaints would primarily be on the price, not the service.

 

[GhostHost1000]

If you're talking about bugs? Sure. 7am is also an issue.

That being said, even with the other issues you are alluding to, if guests were able to secure reservations reliably and consistently from open to close, GSAT would be high and the complaints would primarily be on the price, not the service.

I’m not talking about bugs. I’m talking about the design. It’s bad. I just used it the last 11 days in a row

7am mad dash booking is stupid
Not able to select times is stupid
Not able to modify times is stupid
Etc etc

I could go on but I’m at the airport getting away from the magic mess a vacation at WDW has become

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I’m not talking about bugs. I’m talking about the design. It’s bad. I just used it the last 11 days in a row

I have used it extensively as well. While I agree it is quirky and cumbersome, I would certainly put up with it way more if there was a plethora of inventory throughout the day. I'm not saying Genie+ is perfect or even good as a standalone system; what I'm saying is that if the inventory is good, GSAT sky rockets despite said design issues.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The problem is still executives think raising the price and having less people using this will solve the problem and guests will be happier.

They have no idea obviously what fire they are continuing to pour gas on with their most loyal guests I’m afraid because they just don’t get it

A WDW vacation should not be this complicated, stressful, and frustrating all of which I just experienced more so than ever before. It gives me great pause thinking about when I want to come back in it’s current form and as an AP holder and DVC member I have NEVER felt that way before

 

[mmascari]

The issue is excess demand though. If 10% of guests were purchasing it as opposed to the current 33%, the Genie+ experience would be even better than the OG MaxPass experience. You'd be able to reserve attractions all day long.

We already hit on that there is only 2 ways to drive the demand down.
1 - Artificial cap. Just stop selling it once it's reached whatever capacity it can handle.
2 - Raise the price high enough that people stop buying it before it's beyond capacity.

The first seems to be what most people would prefer, at least if they're able to get it then. Since, the second will price many out of it. Unless getting the capacity low enough also makes standby much better, or they do a lot to improve stand by.

Either way, at a low enough capacity to work well, there's going to be lots of people not using it, so the standby experience needs to get better.

Sadly, Genie+ is only going to become more expensive, not less. Executive leadership is concerned about the poor guest satisfaction regarding Genie+ but salivating to learn that the reason for such poor guest satisfaction is excess demand. Excess demand means there's room to raise the price, a lot.

And, here we see that it's option 2.

They'll probably need to raise the VIP tour guide price too.

Which is "fine", just price enough people out that it's not something people think is "required" for a trip. I've never seen anyone say getting a VIP Tour was required.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

We already hit on that there is only 2 ways to drive the demand down.
1 - Artificial cap. Just stop selling it once it's reached whatever capacity it can handle.
2 - Raise the price high enough that people stop buying it before it's beyond capacity.

The first seems to be what most people would prefer, at least if they're able to get it then. Since, the second will price many out of it. Unless getting the capacity low enough also makes standby much better, or they do a lot to improve stand by.

Either way, at a low enough capacity to work well, there's going to be lots of people not using it, so the standby experience needs to get better.


And, here we see that it's option 2.

They'll probably need to raise the VIP tour guide price too.

Which is "fine", just price enough people out that it's not something people think is "required" for a trip. I've never seen anyone say getting a VIP Tour was required.

I think you hit the nail on the head.