Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

The last report I saw was something like .1 death per 100,000 in boosted people, .9 in 100,000 in fully vaxxed, and 12 per 100,000 in unvaccinated. So while the death toll is still high we can guesstimate that of those 3000 deaths approximately 200 of them were vaxxed and another 20 were boosted, the rest are all unvaccinated. Last year about 117 people died in car crashes every day, that means I’m 4 times more likely to die from a car accident than Covid at this point.

Anything’s possible but I like my odds, the stress from worrying about it is probably a much bigger danger to vaccinated people than Covid is at this point.

The fact that community spread is so high is elevating this number. It would be even lower if the unvaccinated number wasn't so high.

Using those numbers, if the boosted rate is 1% of the unvaccinated rate, driving the unvaccinated down (by vaccinating them to reduce spread) would also drive down the boosted rate even more.

And that's before you consider people who are unable to vaccinate vs choosing not to vaccinate. Keeping the spread high keeps the risk for them high and they don't have a choice. Fortunately for the rest of us, the number of people unable to vaccinated should be low enough to not matter. It's those choosing not to that is keeping this number to large.

 

[mmascari]

For the people who don't want to be vaccinated, raise their insurance rates, don't let them get Medicare or Medicaid but otherwise stop trying to force them to be vaccinated. They have made the decision to accept higher risk so they have to live with any consequences.

If they could just hurry up and stop living with it that would be helpful. It would both reduce community spread and reduce crowd size at WDW.

 

[Andrew C]

And this is why I continue to double down on my opinion that the point has been reached (since vaccines have been widely available and FREE) that dealing with COVID should be an individual issue. Everybody can protect themselves by getting vaccinated and keeping up with recommended boosters and it makes the risk from COVID statistically insignificant in the scheme of all daily life risks. If you want to wear an N95 respirator all day you can do that also for free.

It is way past the point that there should not be mask wearing policies at theme parks or casinos, especially when those policies allow "cloth face coverings" which are essentially useless against Omicron (this is not just my opinion but the opinion of many experts who were previously trusted).

For the people who don't want to be vaccinated, raise their insurance rates, don't let them get Medicare or Medicaid but otherwise stop trying to force them to be vaccinated. They have made the decision to accept higher risk so they have to live with any consequences.

Makes sense to me to end all mask mandates at this point now given the push to use N95 masks for personal protection.

I already an issue with requiring masks in places like stores, restaurants and schools as I didn't think they did much to help with spread. Now that the CDC has come out with how pretty much useless cloth and paper masks are with this variant (and are pushing N95), it is clear these things just don't move the needle.

 

[drizgirl]

I never said others will do the same. Just said that some are doing it.
Need to keep a few of those masks in the glove compartment.

The sad part is there was a pile of them on the dining room table I had intended to grab on my way out to the car to put in the glove compartment. Oops.

 

[lazyboy97o]

For the people who don't want to be vaccinated, raise their insurance rates, don't let them get Medicare or Medicaid but otherwise stop trying to force them to be vaccinated. They have made the decision to accept higher risk so they have to live with any consequences.

Why can’t lack of employment opportunities or lack of access to certain activities be a consequence? Why pick the methods that still involve consequences for those who made the right decision?

 

[Andrew C]

Cases in Texas have peaked and are starting to come down. It seems that hospitalizations are plateauing and may have peaked now (just under the peaks for the delta wave and the winter surge last year). Maybe in 5 days or so, we will know for sure...

 

[DisneyCane]

Why can’t lack of employment opportunities or lack of access to certain activities be a consequence? Why pick the methods that still involve consequences for those who made the right decision?

Because the other people at the place of employment or activity location have tools to protect themselves and the people who choose not to protect themselves aren't really increasing the risk to the people that have protected themselves. I don't believe that somebody should be punished in that manner for not making the best decision for themselves.

If somebody doesn't want to take medication for high blood pressure, it isn't the right decision but they shouldn't be excluded from employment because of it. Before you say that they can't transmit high blood pressure to somebody else, being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from transmitting the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2 either. The chance of infection/transmission is lower for some period of time, particularly after being boosted but the period of time where the reduction is significant is relatively short based upon all available data and studies.

 

[Incomudro]

Makes sense to me to end all mask mandates at this point now given the push to use N95 masks for personal protection.

I already an issue with requiring masks in places like stores, restaurants and schools as I didn't think they did much to help with spread. Now that the CDC has come out with how pretty much useless cloth and paper masks are with this variant (and are pushing N95), it is clear these things just don't move the needle.

It should have been done this way two years ago.

 

[DisneyCane]

It’s a local mom and pop place that I started frequenting instead of going to Lowes̴ or home depot . Trying to give my business to smaller places in the last 2 years. Doesn’t bother me at all and I’ll keep going and abiding to whatever they want.

I too try to give my business to small businesses but the ones I frequent don't require masks. They didn't even really care that much when they were mandated by the county.

I will not set foot into any business that requires masks if it isn't mandated, the exception being WDW for now because I already paid for my AP. I will not renew if they still require masks when my renewal comes up.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Because the other people at the place of employment or activity location have tools to protect themselves and the people who choose not to protect themselves aren't really increasing the risk to the people that have protected themselves. I don't believe that somebody should be punished in that manner for not making the best decision for themselves.

If somebody doesn't want to take medication for high blood pressure, it isn't the right decision but they shouldn't be excluded from employment because of it. Before you say that they can't transmit high blood pressure to somebody else, being vaccinated doesn't prevent you from transmitting the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2 either. The chance of infection/transmission is lower for some period of time, particularly after being boosted but the period of time where the reduction is significant is relatively short based upon all available data and studies.

You keep ignoring all of the ways in which it goes beyond just person protection. Nothing I do protects me from having to work more because other people are out sick. Nothing I do protects me from having to pay higher premiums and out of pocket costs because people are getting sick.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

I too try to give my business to small businesses but the ones I frequent don't require masks. They didn't even really care that much when they were mandated by the county.

I will not set foot into any business that requires masks if it isn't mandated, the exception being WDW for now because I already paid for my AP. I will not renew if they still require masks when my renewal comes up.

That’s your choice as we all have choices.
Masks never bothered me . Now or 2 years ago so it’s not a big deal for myself. Put it on, take it off. Takes less then 10 seconds. The amount of time I’m in a store or other place that requires it I don’t even realize I have it on. But whatever.

 

[correcaminos]

Makes sense to me to end all mask mandates at this point now given the push to use N95 masks for personal protection.

I already an issue with requiring masks in places like stores, restaurants and schools as I didn't think they did much to help with spread. Now that the CDC has come out with how pretty much useless cloth and paper masks are with this variant (and are pushing N95), it is clear these things just don't move the needle.

Well this article says why schools were better with them. Schools without were 62% higher which is not something to ignore

University of Michigan study shows mask mandates at schools show lower COVID transmission rates

Virus spread was 62% higher in school districts without mask rules- where the infection rate averaged 73 cases per 100 thousand students by late September.

www.abc12.com

My 14yo is fine with them. They aren't that big of a deal for school aged kids as a whole. Some of my 14yos friends are far more strict with masks than adults and point out bad wearers. Sounds like a snitch but the idea is that their age they understand and can deal well.

The CDC isn't suggesting N95s only either. People really are taking it to a wrong level with this

Masks and Respirators

Wear a mask with the best fit, protection, and comfort for you.

www.cdc.gov

Our cases hopefully keep falling. We had what looks like a data dump day (only a couple hundred cases one day and then over a thousand the next when the average is closer to a thousand. I hope it stays. At that point I'll be ready to rip off again.... well if not too cold. They really do work better than scarves

 

[Andrew C]

Well this article says why schools were better with them. Schools without were 62% higher which is not something to ignore

There are other studies that show no affect, or negligible, or saw positive movement with a combination of mitigation.

Also, we are now dealing with omicron which changed the game (and its likely that any future variants will be just as transmissible or more). The CDC said this and the feds are now pushing N95s for a reason. If someone has concerns at this point, they should wear an N95 for personal protection. If someone has concerns but are still walking around with a cloth mask, they are doing nothing.

 

[Andrew C]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/25/schools-safely-make-masks-optional-new-cdc-guidelines/

 

[danlb_2000]

Back. Danish virologist at what appears to be Denmark's version of the CDC, Anders Fomsgaard was interviewed on Danish television. Statement based on examples from Norway.

This article is in Danish, but Google Translate can handle it.

Ny Omikron-variant spreder sig – du kan muligvis blive smittet to gange, siger SSI-forsker

Virusforsker Anders Fomsgaard fortæller, at hele verden lige nu ser mod Danmark, hvor undervarianten af Omikron, BA.2, spreder sig.

nyheder.tv2.dk

Frequency will be important, but it's too soon to have more details. If it's the <1% of previous viruses that would obviously be a lesser impact than the 7% of BA.1

From the article it doesn't sound very definitive.

" It is possible that you can be infected with BA.1 Omikron first, and then shortly after with BA.2, he says in 'Go morgen Danmark'."
"But, says Anders Fomsgaard in an in- depth interview with TV 2 , the possibility of extensive re-infection after a short time is for now mostly a theoretical possibility."

 

[hopemax]

There’s also “two ways to skin a cat” as the cliche goes. If we need hospital beds and other healthcare services in “learning to live with it” we can find them by decreasing Covid, or decreasing incidents of other illnesses that result in needing care. While flu hospitalizations are higher than last year’s numbers, they’re still below pre-pandemic numbers. Do masks prevent people from getting sick from all the other things, so that the goal… beds stay available? Is that easier than trying to “staff up” every winter surge?

On other boards I’ve seen multiple people whining about their local doctor’s office. They can’t get an appointment in a timely manner for their non-Covid illness, have to suffer with the symptoms, takes longer for prescription refills calls to get sent to the pharmacy, etc. I’ve said people aren’t going to be happy with the new healthcare norms… costs, convenience, availability. Congratulations you won’t die, just longer queues for everyone and everything else during peak illness periods.

 

[danlb_2000]

Out of curiosity, what store is requiring masks but not cloth?

The casinos and many theme parks (depending on state/locality) are not making the decision themselves.

Not a store, but some universities have tightened their rules about the type of mask you can wear. For example Temple universality now requires either a surgical mask or N95/KN95.

 

[Andrew C]

Not a store, but some universities have tightened their rules about the type of mask you can wear. For example Temple universality now requires either a surgical mask or N95/KN95.

Seems silly. If one person chooses to wear one, what benefit is it to them if someone decides not to? The person wearing one is already protected.

 

[mmascari]

Also, we are now dealing with omicron which changed the game (and its likely that any future variants will be just as transmissible or more). The CDC said this and the feds are now pushing N95s for a reason. If someone has concerns at this point, they should wear an N95 for personal protection. If someone has concerns but are still walking around with a cloth mask, they are doing nothing.

Both kids and adults I run into mostly wear masks and mostly correctly in my area. To set a perspective of what I tend to see. Lots of paper and KN95 type these days too.

However, I don't think I've ever noticed someone wearing an N95 that looked like it was tight enough to give a real certified seal and was also using head loops instead of ear loops.

If we're going to pretend that people are wearing N95 masks that aren't just "better" than the cloth masks or gapping paper masks, but that are actually working at an N95 level of protection, we're definitely going to be pretending and living in a fantasy.

There's a reason that actual doctors and nurses who are wearing actual fit tested and sized N95 masks with head straps and not ear loops always show clear signs on their face when removing them from how they were sealed against the face.

Nobody walking around is actually wearing a mask that fits like that.

Which means, there's still a large component of the mask acting as source control. Just because people are wearing better self protection doesn't mean we should just throw away the source control component.

 

[Andrew C]

Both kids and adults I run into mostly wear masks and mostly correctly in my area. To set a perspective of what I tend to see. Lots of paper and KN95 type these days too.

However, I don't think I've ever noticed someone wearing an N95 that looked like it was tight enough to give a real certified seal and was also using head loops instead of ear loops.

If we're going to pretend that people are wearing N95 masks that aren't just "better" than the cloth masks or gapping paper masks, but that are actually working at an N95 level of protection, we're definitely going to be pretending and living in a fantasy.

There's a reason that actual doctors and nurses who are wearing actual fit tested and sized N95 masks with head straps and not ear loops always show clear signs on their face when removing them from how they were sealed against the face.

Nobody walking around is actually wearing a mask that fits like that.

Which means, there's still a large component of the mask acting as source control. Just because people are wearing better self protection doesn't mean we should just throw away the source control component.

People wearing an N95 improperly doesn't negate the fact that paper and cloth masks are pretty much worthless against this variant, and likely future variants. So lets end the theater.