Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

I also wonder how that guy feels about vaccine passports in restaurants. Most of the people applauding this policy are opposed to refusing service to someone who is unvaccinated. Huge double standard there. At the end of the day the owner has every right to make that the rule for his restaurant but that doesn’t mean people can’t call him out for being an idiot.

The people calling him out for being an idiot are of the OPINION that he is being an idiot. Can I call out restaurants (there are still many) that require masks to walk in and go to the table because I think they are being idiots? If I did, I'd get jumped all over.

I'm sure he doesn't support vaccine passports for restaurants but what's the difference. If he wanted to ban vaccinated people, he is free to do that as well (although even in TX he'd be cutting down his customer base significantly).

 

[007mickey]

Again,as usual you miss the point.
Whether it was a good idea fir that couple to go out with a child at home who needs to be protected isn’t that point of the whole story. I agree it probably wasn’t a good idea. I wouldn’t have done it . The point that you overlook because of your beliefs that have been beaten into the ground here over the year, is that the owner tossed them because of his political beliefs, like yours, that masks should be done away with. We are not talking the exact opposite of this situation.. where masks are required in a restaurant and someone throws a tantrum outside the door because they don’t want to wear one. That’s the law in many places. That masked couple was not going to possibly hurt someone, it was there choice but were thrown out because the owner doesn’t like any mitigation. That’s his words. Go see his interview.
Sort of reminds me of the bakeries refusing to make a cake for a same sex couple. Their store and I guess they can do what they want, but it’s still wrong and childish.
We live in a blame the victim culture it seems now.

And that's the problem, them not protecting their child isn't in any "point of the story" and it should be. It's okay to admit the restaurant and the couple might be in error here.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's also hypocritical of the restaurant owner to kick people out for wearing masks when all of the anti-mask, anti-vax crowd has been banging the drum of "Let me choose whether or not to mask/get vaccinated and you just worry about yourself." It's one (still irresponsible) thing to not require masks. Banning them altogether is even worse.

In this case, "worrying about yourself" would mean not going to an indoor dining restaurant PERIOD, not wearing a poorly sealed (or unsealed in the guy's case) surgical mask while waiting for food. They are not reducing their risk at all.

It’s all about personal choice or local choice until you make a different choice.

The choice is if you want to wear a mask for no apparent reason for the brief period of waiting for your food then don't go to a restaurant that doesn't allow masks. In my opinion the government should not ban (or require) masks but a private business is free to do either. The choice is whether or not to patronize the business that has either policy.

 

[GoofGoof]

The people calling him out for being an idiot are of the OPINION that he is being an idiot. Can I call out restaurants (there are still many) that require masks to walk in and go to the table because I think they are being idiots? If I did, I'd get jumped all over.

I'm sure he doesn't support vaccine passports for restaurants but what's the difference. If he wanted to ban vaccinated people, he is free to do that as well (although even in TX he'd be cutting down his customer base significantly).

You can and do say that on a regular basis. You literally just said that you can’t make an argument that masks help at all and that’s your prerogative to have that opinion. It’s my prerogative to have an opinion that the guy is an idiot for having the policy he has.

In reference to vaccine passports it’s hypocritical to say it’s wrong to stop people from dining if they aren’t vaccinated (which I’ve seen many, many people rail on about…my freedom, draconian restrictions, etc) but then think it’s perfectly acceptable to ban people for wearing a mask. Restaurants or any business can decide who enters as long as they don’t discriminate against a protected class so in both cases it’s perfectly legal, but that doesn’t mean people have to have the opinion that it’s a good idea.

 

[mmascari]

It's also hypocritical of the restaurant owner to kick people out for wearing masks when all of the anti-mask, anti-vax crowd has been banging the drum of "Let me choose whether or not to mask/get vaccinated and you just worry about yourself." It's one (still irresponsible) thing to not require masks. Banning them altogether is even worse.

It's not an equivalent comparison either.

Requiring everyone to wear a mask is putting a restriction on everyone to cause a change in used air distribution.

Requiring everyone to NOT wear a mask doesn't just remove that restriction, it also forces everyone to share their used air.

The opposite of "Requiring everyone" is "Not Requiring everyone" and is not "Not allowing everyone".

I also agree that masks in in an indoor restaurant are mostly useless and shouldn't be required at all since they're already not required for like 90% of the time you're in there, at least for customers. We are generally fine with people doing useless stuff if they choose though and it doesn't harm others.

Really, everyone in this story was wrong.

But, to just to be complete, please reread the story and replace "mask" with "pants loin cloth" everywhere. It's a much better story then.

Couple was kicked out of Texas restaurant for wearing loin cloths to protect at-risk son

In an interview with KTVT, a local TV station, Blackmer said that he didn't "want any loin cloths" in the establishment, which he had put his "money" and "blood, sweat and tears" into. While there aren't any signs stating Blackmer's policy in the restaurant, KTVT reported that the establishment's host asks guests to remove their loin cloths at the door.

It's a whole different restaurant now.

 

[Heppenheimer]

In this case, "worrying about yourself" would mean not going to an indoor dining restaurant PERIOD, not wearing a poorly sealed (or unsealed in the guy's case) surgical mask while waiting for food. They are not reducing their risk at all.

The choice is if you want to wear a mask for no apparent reason for the brief period of waiting for your food then don't go to a restaurant that doesn't allow masks. In my opinion the government should not ban (or require) masks but a private business is free to do either. The choice is whether or not to patronize the business that has either policy.

I'm going to be pretty blunt. You really don't understand that everything doesn't need to be "all-or-nothing" to still have a positive benefit, do you?

 

[Heppenheimer]

If I was choosing a restaurant and lived in the area, I'd certainly choose this one. Not because of a political statement but because I feel more comfortable in places where nobody is masked. It isn't a political thing either, it's anxiety related. When I see people masked it makes me anxious because it feels like they all have a disease, like I'm in the infectious disease ward at a hospital. It doesn't matter to me mentally that I'm some percentage less likely to get COVID if everybody is wearing one where I am. I FEEL more likely to catch something when I see it.

If this is your personal anxiety hang-up, don't expect society to bend over to accommodate you. When we treat people with anxiety, we don't tell everyone else to make sure we avoid that person's triggers. We help the patient manage what is, in effect, a usually irrational heightened physiological response to a benign situation or stimulus.

 

[GoofGoof]

And that's the problem, them not protecting their child isn't in any "point of the story" and it should be. It's okay to admit the restaurant and the couple might be in error here.

The couple is in error for wearing a mask or they are in error for going and eating in an indoor restaurant? Outside of a trip to WDW I have eaten indoors in a restaurant 1 time since March 2020. I would be perfectly happy to see restaurants takeout or outdoor dining only. I know many are deeply opposed to those types of restrictions.

 

[GoofGoof]

If this is your personal anxiety hang-up, don't expect society to bend over to accommodate you. When we treat people with anxiety, we don't tell everyone else to make sure we avoid that person's triggers. We help the patient manage what is, in effect, a usually irrational heightened physiological response to a benign situation or stimulus.

Someone needs to tell him that’s so 2020. Masks felt really odd in April 2020 but it’s been so long now. I don’t even notice them anymore.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Religious exemptions have to be made, but the burden of proof lies with the person asking for the exemption. You cannot just claim it’s “against your religion” without providing documentation. For example, I am Catholic and people I work with no that and there is nothing official from the Catholic Church that opposes the vaccines so I have no grounds for a religious exemption. As far as I know the vast majority of the most popular organized religions don’t directly oppose vaccinations. Most employees will not renounce their religion to get out of a vaccine.

In fact, according to the Pope, if you're catholic you're morally obligated to get the vaccine. And some states have removed religious exemptions entirely -- only medical exemptions are allowed (NYC did after the measles outbreak among Orthodox Jews, for example.)'

 

[DisneyCane]

I'm going to be pretty blunt. You really don't understand that everything doesn't need to be "all-or-nothing" to still have a positive benefit, do you?

I understand that but in this particular situation it does need to be all or nothing. Going to a restaurant to dine indoors carries some level of risk. That risk is not reduced in any significant manner if you wear an ill fitting surgical mask until the food arrives at the table. Therefore, if these parents want to protect their child as much as possible, the only choice they should make with respect to indoor dining is not to do it.

I would not be surprised if these people went to this restaurant on purpose with the goal of getting kicked out for social media attention. If their intent was truly to protect their child they are highly ignorant based on the fact that they went to any restaurant.

If this is your personal anxiety hang-up, don't expect society to bend over to accommodate you. When we treat people with anxiety, we don't tell everyone else to make sure we avoid that person's triggers. We help the patient manage what is, in effect, a usually irrational heightened physiological response to a benign situation or stimulus.

I don't expect society to accommodate my anxieties. Fully vaccinated healthy people who want mask mandates to feel safer shouldn't expect it either but they do. I was just saying since I feel more comfortable when nobody is wearing a mask, I would choose to go someplace where people don't wear them over a place where people do. I'd never tell somebody to take off a mask so that I feel more comfortable, I just manage the trigger as you correctly say.

Someone needs to tell him that’s so 2020. Masks felt really odd in April 2020 but it’s been so long now. I don’t even notice them anymore.

You can tell me directly, I don't take offense. You may not notice them but I notice them everywhere. I notice them in commercials on TV. It's a good thing that you aren't bothered by seeing them so that you don't have to work through your irrational anxieties like I do.

 

[DisneyCane]

The couple is in error for wearing a mask or they are in error for going and eating in an indoor restaurant? Outside of a trip to WDW I have eaten indoors in a restaurant 1 time since March 2020. I would be perfectly happy to see restaurants takeout or outdoor dining only. I know many are deeply opposed to those types of restrictions.

But here's the thing. Why would you be happy to see indoor dining restricted and restaurants only offer takeout or outdoor dining (which is uncomfortable in a FL summer or a northern winter) when you can make the choice that you did and not eat in a restaurant? Why should that choice be mandated upon everybody else?

I don't demand that you dine indoors at restaurants, you shouldn't demand that I don't. You make the choice that works best for you and your family and I make the choice that works best for me and my family.

 

[Chomama]

But here's the thing. Why would you be happy to see indoor dining restricted and restaurants only offer takeout or outdoor dining (which is uncomfortable in a FL summer or a northern winter) when you can make the choice that you did and not eat in a restaurant? Why should that choice be mandated upon everybody else?

I don't demand that you dine indoors at restaurants, you shouldn't demand that I don't. You make the choice that works best for you and your family and I make the choice that works best for me and my family.

At this point I actually agree with you on this one. Do I think that it is childish to refuse service to people that are wearing masks? Yes. I think they are just trying to prove a point that is pretty pointless. If that family truly has an immuno compromised child I cannot find a reason for them to be in a crowded restaurant. I won’t go into a crowded restaurant and I am fully vaccinated, but that is just a personal choice. Masking in a restaurant is kind of silly because people have to takeoff their masks to order eat etc. No one is wearing a mask for the majority of the meal and it’s dumb. If you want to eat inside a restaurant then you have to be honest with yourself that you are taking a risk, whether you believe in masks or not. And it’s ridiculous to put that risk back on the restaurant owner. The reality is that most people in there aren’t going to be masks, no matter what the restaurants personal policies are because people have to take them off to eat. So while I think the restaurant owner is being childish I also think this couple is not really reasonable . They would’ve had to take their masks off to eat their meal

 

[Chip Chipperson]

In this case, "worrying about yourself" would mean not going to an indoor dining restaurant PERIOD, not wearing a poorly sealed (or unsealed in the guy's case) surgical mask while waiting for food. They are not reducing their risk at all.

The choice is if you want to wear a mask for no apparent reason for the brief period of waiting for your food then don't go to a restaurant that doesn't allow masks. In my opinion the government should not ban (or require) masks but a private business is free to do either. The choice is whether or not to patronize the business that has either policy.

Unless EVERY mask-wearing customer is wearing an ill-fitting mask then it's completely irrelevant to the restaurant's policy. It's not like he kicked them out for not wearing their masks properly. He kicked them out for daring to wear them at all.

As for the point of wearing them while walking around the restaurant when going to/from your table, the bathroom, etc., that is to offer as much potential reduction in the spread of the virus as possible as people move around the room. You can't eat through a mask, so your only other options are either don't allow indoor dining at all or let the perfect be the enemy of the good and avoid any mitigations because they're less than 100% effective. To put it another way, if I have enough contact sensors for my home alarm to monitor all of my doors but only some of my windows, would I be smarter to use all of the contact sensors or just throw my hands up and say there's no point in having an alarm at all because someone might enter through the smallest window in my kitchen that's much harder to get through?

 

[GoofGoof]

But here's the thing. Why would you be happy to see indoor dining restricted and restaurants only offer takeout or outdoor dining (which is uncomfortable in a FL summer or a northern winter) when you can make the choice that you did and not eat in a restaurant? Why should that choice be mandated upon everybody else?

I don't demand that you dine indoors at restaurants, you shouldn't demand that I don't. You make the choice that works best for you and your family and I make the choice that works best for me and my family.

So if the choice that works best for a family is to eat out but wear a mask then they don’t get to make a choice….interesting

 

[Chomama]

So if the choice that works best for a family is to eat out but wear a mask then they don’t get to make a choice….interesting

I truly do not understand the point of eating out and trying to wear a mask. I am probably the most Covid conservative person that I know in terms of what I am willing to do and not do, and for me that means not eating in a restaurant. I think people who mask while walking to the bathroom in a restaurant are honestly just making themselves feel better about being in a crowded place. The reality is that wearing your mask while walking to the restroom but taking it off to eat at your table does not mitigate much risk. If you are concerned about Covid you should be eating outside or doing takeout.

 

[Chi84]

Someone needs to tell him that’s so 2020. Masks felt really odd in April 2020 but it’s been so long now. I don’t even notice them anymore.

That's great, but not everyone feels that way. I know what year it is and I notice the masks. I hate them, too, even though I comply and wear them when required. You can control what people do up to a certain point, but you can't control how they feel.

 

[DisneyCane]

Unless EVERY mask-wearing customer is wearing an ill-fitting mask then it's completely irrelevant to the restaurant's policy. It's not like he kicked them out for not wearing their masks properly. He kicked them out for daring to wear them at all.

As for the point of wearing them while walking around the restaurant when going to/from your table, the bathroom, etc., that is to offer as much potential reduction in the spread of the virus as possible as people move around the room. You can't eat through a mask, so your only other options are either don't allow indoor dining at all or let the perfect be the enemy of the good and avoid any mitigations because they're less than 100% effective. To put it another way, if I have enough contact sensors for my home alarm to monitor all of my doors but only some of my windows, would I be smarter to use all of the contact sensors or just throw my hands up and say there's no point in having an alarm at all because someone might enter through the smallest window in my kitchen that's much harder to get through?

Please find me the study that shows the risk reduction accomplished by people wearing masks for brief periods walking to a table and the restroom in restaurants. Trying to argue with a straight face that those policies make any sense whatsoever would be like me arguing (AND TO BE CLEAR I AM NOT) that getting vaccinated is more risky than not.

So if the choice that works best for a family is to eat out but wear a mask then they don’t get to make a choice….interesting

They can choose not to go to a restaurant that doesn't allow masks. Since there's probably fewer than 50 in the whole country, it's an easy thing to do.

 

[GoofGoof]

You can tell me directly, I don't take offense. You may not notice them but I notice them everywhere. I notice them in commercials on TV. It's a good thing that you aren't bothered by seeing them so that you don't have to work through your irrational anxieties like I do.

Hopefully this helps. The people you see wearing masks don‘t all have a disease. Some actually may be sick and if they are you are actually safer being around them masked then unmasked. Maybe masks aren’t perfect and maybe they don’t do a whole lot but something is better than nothing. This goes for Covid and other viruses as well. I would also say that there’s a good chance that if someone is wearing a mask they are more likely to be more cautious and less likely to be sick. Not a guarantee but probably a safe generalization.

 

[corsairk09]

Schools are under different jurisdictions than employers, and employers must allow it under the equal opportunity employment act. The option for kids with a true religious exemption is homeschooling; adults pretty much have to work. The other issue with California is that too many parents claim a religious exemption when they just don't want to vaccinate. Those with true religious exemptions should be few and far between and again, that's why everyone else needs to get vaccinated, because those people likely wouldn't accept medical treatment either if they got sick.

Public Schools allow religious exemptions to mandated vaccines... at least in my state.