Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks (Part II)

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
And Mr. Jobs resigns as Apple CEO: http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20096895-248/steve-jobs-steps-down-from-apple/

He has been much discussed in this thread. I certainly hope his health holds out and this was a preventative move. Love or hate Apple, this man is truly a force in American pop culture. His absence is a loss regardless of their product line.

The alert just came in on my phone. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Why was Steve Jobs the only CEO in the whole consumer electronics industry with good taste? He lived to see Apple be worth more than the government and beat Microsoft. Maybe he's resigning so he can come and do EPCOT as the new President of the WDC? :zipit:
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Eddie, a question I'm hoping you could give answer with some of your 'real world' experience....

We keep hearing how Shanghi is still very much in the 'blue sky' phase because it's 5yrs out. I question that because blue sky should still be the dream up concepts.. flush them out a bit.. and then pick the path. To me, 'blue sky' isn't the design phase.. it's concept brainstorming. When you see it takes Disney 2 years to CONSTRUCT something major these days.. and you hear stories about attractions being in DEVELOPMENT for multiple years.. I have a hard time adding these concepts together and believing that Shanghi is still very much in blue sky concept phase. For something 4-5 years out of this scale, I have to believe they are in development of the concepts already... not simply brainstorming.

I get that many portions of the park are probably still 'TBD' as things are prioritized in the timeline.. but I have to believe things like the lands, major avenues, anchor attractions, look/feel are all pretty much established.

Your thoughts and insight on this timeline vs concept maturity?

You are correct, Blue Sky is the dreaming phase and traditionally, you are typically out of Blue Sky when you are this far along but every project is unique. It's also true that different areas of the park are in various stages of completion and out of phase. Main Street on DLP was a year behind the other lands when Michael Eisner dropped the 20's theme and sent us back to the drawing board. The video of the castle looked like something early on in design development. Really basic. I can see them rethinking the Castle for a long time as it's so Iconic and every boss will want to opine on it. The other thing that happens is redesign when things come in way over the budget. They go back and if the overrun is radical enough, have to simplify big areas of the lands and redo the design for a smaller scope of work. Cuts are not always clean and you have to put something else in place of what was taken out. Design development is the phase that it happens in.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Steve Jobs. One more thing....

I loved the fact that it took more than a year to get the white iPhone. Reportedly the white button did not perfectly match the rest of the white phone so Jobs rejected it. Reminds me of John Hench and the insistence on getting the white just right.

Also the fact that Apple products are minimal and elegant. Steve insisted on less being more. He felt the best design was achieved when there was nothing more to take out. He practiced restraint.

Restraint. This is something to practice and the essence of good taste. The 1G Imagineers had that. The colors of NOS were soft and muted. Elegant. Tomorrowland '67 was elegant and white. When the Castle is spray painted gold and still has gingerbread from the 50th glued to it, does it really need that? If there is a moment in Pirates where things are quiet, why add more to fill any "rest" in the "cadence"? The MacBook Air was all about less doing more.

A friend once said "If you search for truth you find beauty, but if you search for beauty you find vanity". If you make things what they intrinsically need to be then they speak clearly and remain sincere.

I think I'm just getting old..
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
The alert just came in on my phone. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Why was Steve Jobs the only CEO in the whole consumer electronics industry with good taste? He lived to see Apple be worth more than the government and beat Microsoft. Maybe he's resigning so he can come and do EPCOT as the new President of the WDC? :zipit:

I think this went over most people's heads but this is the kind of "leave a legacy" EPCOT needs and is long overdue. From your keyboard to the mouse's monitor (or should I say iPad).

I loved the fact that it took more than a year to get the white iPhone. Reportedly the white button did not perfectly match the rest of the white phone so Jobs rejected it. Reminds me of John Hench and the insistence on getting the white just right.

Also the fact that Apple products are minimal and elegant. Steve insisted on less being more. He felt the best design was achieved when there was nothing more to take out. He practiced restraint.

Restraint. This is something to practice and the essence of good taste. The 1G Imagineers had that. The colors of NOS were soft and muted. Elegant. Tomorrowland '67 was elegant and white. When the Castle is spray painted gold and still has gingerbread from the 50th glued to it, does it really need that? If there is a moment in Pirates where things are quiet, why add more to fill any "rest" in the "cadence"? The MacBook Air was all about less doing more.

A friend once said "If you search for truth you find beauty, but if you search for beauty you find vanity". If you make things what they intrinsically need to be then they speak clearly and remain sincere.

I think I'm just getting old..

Sounds more like 'experienced'. Excellent take lately on the events of the last week.
 

Lee

Adventurer
I think it would be really neat to have glasses with built in screens that introduced augmented reality objects and animations to different areas of the park. You could even call it Pixie vision or something similar.

There are "enhanced reality" projects like that at MIT.

do you think any of these could find their way into the parks in the near future?

Possibly...I can't really talk about things like that only to say that disney and others have explored that method.

Somewhat reminds me of the CAVE technology that WDI toyed around with several years ago.
Never went anywhere, I don't think. Sad considering the money that must have gone into that stuff...
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Somewhat reminds me of the CAVE technology that WDI toyed around with several years ago.
Never went anywhere, I don't think. Sad considering the money that must have gone into that stuff...

Sometimes technology needs to catch up to the vision (or get cheaper to do), and so I'm not counting any of that stuff out just yet.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Quotes on Design and Creativity from Steve Jobs..

I enjoyed these..Hopefully these ideals are ingrained as best practices at Apple.


“We think the Mac will sell zillions, but we didn’t build the Mac for anybody else. We built it for ourselves. We were the group of people who were going to judge whether it was great or not. We weren’t going to go out and do market research. We just wanted to build the best thing we could build.

When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.” [Playboy, Feb. 1, 1985]

“Design is a funny word. Some people think design means how it looks. But of course, if you dig deeper, it’s really how it works. The design of the Mac wasn’t what it looked like, although that was part of it. Primarily, it was how it worked. To design something really well, you have to get it. You have to really grok what it’s all about. It takes a passionate commitment to really thoroughly understand something, chew it up, not just quickly swallow it. Most people don’t take the time to do that.

“For something this complicated, it’s really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don’t know what they want until you show it to them.”

“That’s been one of my mantras — focus and simplicity. Simple can be harder than complex: You have to work hard to get your thinking clean to make it simple. But it’s worth it in the end because once you get there, you can move mountains.” [BusinessWeek, May 25, 1998, in a profile that also included the following gem: "Steve clearly has done an incredible job," says former Apple Chief Financial Officer Joseph Graziano. "But the $64,000 question is: Will Apple ever resume growth?"]

***

“This is what customers pay us for–to sweat all these details so it’s easy and pleasant for them to use our computers. We’re supposed to be really good at this. That doesn’t mean we don’t listen to customers, but it’s hard for them to tell you what they want when they’ve never seen anything remotely like it. Take desktop video editing. I never got one request from someone who wanted to edit movies on his computer. Yet now that people see it, they say, ‘Oh my God, that’s great!’” [Fortune, January 24 2000]

***

“Look at the design of a lot of consumer products — they’re really complicated surfaces. We tried to make something much more holistic and simple. When you first start off trying to solve a problem, the first solutions you come up with are very complex, and most people stop there. But if you keep going, and live with the problem and peel more layers of the onion off, you can often times arrive at some very elegant and simple solutions. Most people just don’t put in the time or energy to get there. We believe that customers are smart, and want objects which are well thought through.” [MSNBC and Newsweek interview, Oct. 14, 2006]



“Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because they didn’t really do it, they just saw something. It seemed obvious to them after a while. That’s because they were able to connect experiences they’ve had and synthesize new things. And the reason they were able to do that was that they’ve had more experiences or they have thought more about their experiences than other people.

“Unfortunately, that’s too rare a commodity. A lot of people in our industry haven’t had very diverse experiences. So they don’t have enough dots to connect, and they end up with very linear solutions without a broad perspective on the problem. The broader one’s understanding of the human experience, the better design we will have. [Wired, February 1996]
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I saw this book and I can imagine this is the type of book that an Imagineer will go through looking for design elements.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=48451&cat=1,46096,46200&ap=1

Wow. Great find and at the right price too. Thanks! If you came to our office you'd find lots of little books like this. These catalogs and rare books are the details that make the project great. Using the right hinge or boot scraper for the period makes a difference.
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the famous "How do you make the future when the future is Montana?" quote (paraphrased) by Michael Eisner.

My own interpretation of this quote is sort of represented by a scene in the Star Trek "Generations" movie - where even though it is hundreds of years in the future, Kirk's paradise was an old fashioned country horse ranch. Eddie, is that what you think Eisner meant?

To me, new, often screen-based, digital high technologies currently and forseeably available (like Virtual Reality headsets, Sum of all Thrills-type sims, moving video games like Midway Mania, etc), while fun, aren't able to convince or transport me as well as the old fashioned, tangible wood, steel and stone (real or mimicked) of a Big Thunder Mountain, a Maharajah Jungle Trek, a Tom Sawyer Island, etc.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Reminds me of the famous "How do you make the future when the future is Montana?" quote (paraphrased) by Michael Eisner.

Especially if you are the Unibomber...

I think he was referring to the backlash on technology and urbanism in that no one really wants to live in a silver mylar suit. People are intrinsically drawn to timeless pleasures like nature. At the time people were cashing out of the cities and moving to the country (with their iPad) for the "real life".
 

wedenterprises

Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the famous "How do you make the future when the future is Montana?" quote (paraphrased) by Michael Eisner.

My own interpretation of this quote is sort of represented by a scene in the Star Trek "Generations" movie - where even though it is hundreds of years in the future, Kirk's paradise was an old fashioned country horse ranch. Eddie, is that what you think Eisner meant?

To me, new, often screen-based, digital high technologies currently and forseeably available (like Virtual Reality headsets, Sum of all Thrills-type sims, moving video games like Midway Mania, etc), while fun, aren't able to convince or transport me as well as the old fashioned, tangible wood, steel and stone (real or mimicked) of a Big Thunder Mountain, a Maharajah Jungle Trek, a Tom Sawyer Island, etc.

I always took that quote/idea simply as contextual thinking. What would Disneyland look like from the context of Tomorrowland? If Tomorrowland was our nostalgic past, what would the Jungle Cruise be? What would the Wild West look like? What would be considered "adventurous" to someone 5,000 years in the future?

I like the whole Montana future as a starting point to a conversation. I have always felt that Tomorrowland could have more comfort and connection to our present day. I'd love to see more grass and trees at the very least! I sure hope ponds and city parks exist in the future!

Re: video screens v. Tom Sawyer, etc: There is room for everything, something for everyone. While on the surface one experience might be more "real" than another, I don't think you can discount the Toy Story Manias of the world so easily by saying that they can't transport you because they definitely hold potential.

There are other inherent problems with a ride like TSM besides the use of screens and technology. First, it's obvious that you are not in the Toy Story world but in a giant room full of screens. Second, at the end of the ride they quantify your level of suck. :lol:

However, if you disregard the screen rides so easily I think you risk missing out on their potential. For example, a screen ride could transport you to the world of Tron, and you could argue that would be the best way to accomplish it. Maybe the screen rides have their limitations, but I think they can and will be just as powerful. Think of how new some of this technology is. It's going to blend with the tangible and blur the lines. More magic is on it's way.
 

trs518

Active Member
However, if you disregard the screen rides so easily I think you risk missing out on their potential. For example, a screen ride could transport you to the world of Tron, and you could argue that would be the best way to accomplish it. Maybe the screen rides have their limitations, but I think they can and will be just as powerful. Think of how new some of this technology is. It's going to blend with the tangible and blur the lines. More magic is on it's way.

Toy Story Mania is a fun ride and I would consider it the first generation screen ride. I can only imagine what it will be like when we're on the 5th, 7th, or 10th Generation. I'm thinking of the jumps in technology of the first generation planes, cars, and computers to where we are now.

They will be one type of ride though, much like we have dark rides, roller coasters, spinners, etc now.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Toy Story Mania is a fun ride and I would consider it the first generation screen ride. I can only imagine what it will be like when we're on the 5th, 7th, or 10th Generation. I'm thinking of the jumps in technology of the first generation planes, cars, and computers to where we are now.

They will be one type of ride though, much like we have dark rides, roller coasters, spinners, etc now.

The current obsession WDI has with video screens killed the ending of my favorite attraction.:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKT0YxkYqo
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I'm not going to disagree with you on that one. I've never been on the ride (my wife gets sick riding backwards), but I haven't heard anything good about the end.

A useful technology implemented in the wrong way.

Right, the medium by itself isn't bad...it's the USE of the medium which is poorly done in this case.
 

MikeAGeorge

New Member
RE: Eddie Sotto

WOW!..I mean WOW!..
I stumbled across this site while looking for some info on the Magical Express for our trip to WDW this month. I first visited WDW for a day in 1985 and have made it an every or every other year destination with my kids since 1996. As an owner/operator of a design/build construction firm for the last 22 years I've always taken an interest in the details of the design at great theme parks. I have given up my business in the last year and have returned to school to pursue a (gulp!) MBA. Since finding this thread about a week ago I've read every post in the 370ish pages. There are some greatly insightful posters who've participated. And...Eddie...wow....you've been amazingly generous and forthright in discussing issues that you could and unbelievably patient in dealing with requests that you could not answer. Your insights into projects you've worked on and projects you haven't are unique in that you lived it, breathed it, and worked it. There seems to be no shortage of aspiring future imagineers here who should literally take notes. Just really wanted to say thank you for your generosity and patience in making this a very entertaining and informative read.
 

scpergj

Well-Known Member
I loved the fact that it took more than a year to get the white iPhone. Reportedly the white button did not perfectly match the rest of the white phone so Jobs rejected it. Reminds me of John Hench and the insistence on getting the white just right.

Also the fact that Apple products are minimal and elegant. Steve insisted on less being more. He felt the best design was achieved when there was nothing more to take out. He practiced restraint.

Restraint. This is something to practice and the essence of good taste. The 1G Imagineers had that. The colors of NOS were soft and muted. Elegant. Tomorrowland '67 was elegant and white. When the Castle is spray painted gold and still has gingerbread from the 50th glued to it, does it really need that? If there is a moment in Pirates where things are quiet, why add more to fill any "rest" in the "cadence"? The MacBook Air was all about less doing more.

A friend once said "If you search for truth you find beauty, but if you search for beauty you find vanity". If you make things what they intrinsically need to be then they speak clearly and remain sincere.

I think I'm just getting old..

Colin Chapman designed race cars in the same way - he added lightness to the car by making things as simple as possible. I think great design is just that...great design. Steve Jobs has the right ideas...simplicity works.
 

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