Big changes coming to Annual Passes

**Stacy**

Active Member
This past June I briefly considered downgrading to a seasonal pass or weekday pass before I ultimately decided to not renew at all. Initially I liked the Silver pass with the added parking..but the reasons I decided to take a break from the parks are still there... insane crowd levels, the endless construction walls, the same souvenirs I see year after year after year. SWW at DHS was the final straw for me...I went on a Friday...there was no Star Wars motorcade...just volunteers from a local Star Wars fan group marching in their own SW costumes(they were there for free admission). Disney still opened up Darth Mall and were selling overpriced merchandise to gobs and gobs of guests ALL DAY LONG but couldn't be bothered to send out themed vehicles for a relatively short parade.

Disney is supposed to make me happy, instead I feel taken advantage of....and I have been happily handing money over to Disney for over 20 years. This is the first year I feel bad about spending time there, spending money there, wasting time in line there.
 
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Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
The top acts, like Madonna (who like her or not, has had the highest grossing tours year after year) were charging over $100 for the worst seats three or four years ago. Now, those seats sell for half that. The people willing to pay those prices weren't the same people who wanted to go to her concerts year after year. The other top acts have all had similar circumstances. This is much like what I think we will see with WDW.
WDW/DL are basically the equivalent of The Rolling Stones. Universal is sort of One Direction.

One is bigger than the world, still selling out stadiums, but only getting by because of their past fame. The other is the "hot right now" group, with nothing stopping their future success but themselves.
 
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alphac2005

Well-Known Member
That may have been your experience, but I think that it's worth noting that in addition to the parks, a lot of people got exposure to/love of the Disney brand due to Disneyland/Wonderful World of Disney/etc. on TV as well as the animated films that were frequently re-released even before home video existed.

I understand that as my parents were of that generation, but for them, it fueled the love of wanting to go to the parks. Most that I know of the generation of their children had their love of Disney from going to the theme parks as their parent's generation were already significant visitors of WDW and DL.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I really do think we may be on the cusp of this general reaction against Walt Disney World. The last few changes in what came with an Annual Pass have been reductions, such as children prices disappearing or discounts being lowered. It has been a long time since Walt Disney Workd added to the benefits.

I think it's conceivable it would happen in the near future, but not due to rising prices or loss of benefits -- the thing that would cause WDW to fall off would be the lack of new attractions which would result in poor word of mouth. Luckily, the higher ups have finally seemed to recognize this and actually seem to be willing to pour some money back into the resort. With there likely to be a constant stream of new attractions opening in upcoming years starting in 2016, I suspect they'll manage to stave off any drop off in attention and will actually be able to justify the ever increasing prices.
 

glvsav37

Well-Known Member
I think you're missing the point, this isn't about nostalgia, this is about dollars and cents gone haywire. When a business over the course of only five years has now priced out a significant amount of their audience and it's based upon padding profit margins and numbers, that's the issue. Disney continues to offer a lesser product by the year, month, day, whatever, yet they have a price trajectory that doesn't match their product or reality.
But have they? I don't have the numbers to back it up, but isn't attendance at record highs? All I hear now is that any 'slow season' has all but eroded away and there is very few gaps in mid to high crowd volume.

To you and I—the die hard's who go regularly and care enough to be here on a Sunday night talking about it on a disney-themed message board, we can see the decline of product. But are the "every 3-year families" seeing the same?

Granted, we are discussing annual passes, so overall, those people are not the focus of this product. But are AP's bad for business? That is a whole other conversation.

In my prior career, I was in the television industry, and Disney's main revenue driver has become television and film. There's a problem there, it's cyclical. Disney's number one driver of profit is the revenue from ESPN carriage costs and there is complete destabilization in the industry that has only begun and it many in the business are extremely concerned about the the long-term implications of cord cutting, sliced and diced packages, etc. The theme parks have always been a stable and highly profitable piece of the income pie and tends to cover 20-25% of the company's profits.

Agreed, cord cutting will be a huge problem when networks are such a large source of your revenue. But when you own the networks, a la carte content delivery can be more profitable then any bundled platform.

The correct way to look at it is that The Walt Disney Company is an entertainment conglomerate anchored by their highly profitable theme park business that always provides a stable foundation of profit. They still can't get their act together with interactive, so they've merged divisions all in an effort to mask fiscal weakness in that end of business. Merchandising is huge, but Disney runs a giant licensing operation as they produce next to nothing in terms of consumer products outside of what they have manufactured for the parks. I can tell you from industry stories, that's a mess of a division to deal with as well.

I can agree with the "anchored" analogy.

As for merchandising, they may be a to deal with, but they are so popular, that companies will put up with their issues. Licensing has nothing but huge profit written all over it. Let someone else take the manufacturing and inventory hit while you just collect the royalty checks. However, they need the network shows to create a constant and fresh stream of listenable properties.

High five...good dialog...
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
That may have been your experience, but I think that it's worth noting that in addition to the parks, a lot of people got exposure to/love of the Disney brand due to Disneyland/Wonderful World of Disney/etc. on TV as well as the animated films that were frequently re-released even before home video existed.

Agreed, and interestingly enough - I actually watch a decent deal of Disney Channel, and they mention the parks very rarely, and there is very little park tie-in to Disney Channel properties.
 

Miss Heinous

Well-Known Member
I love how a bunch of people are saying "Disney needs the money to build Star Wars, that's why they raised the prices."
8b5.gif
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think @asianway is right on the money here.... "Lifestyles tax"

It's a pushback.

If Disney wanted to address the lifestylers... they would just cap the # of admissions. But even after all these years at DLR where they really need it... they don't even hint at that angle. Instead just keep expanding blackout ranges while keeping unlimited passes available for those 'dedicated' enough to pay.

It, just like the gate prices just seems to be about pushing as far as they can go. At least WDW has broken their cherry with blackout dates. I just wish the company had the balls to actually limit admissions or make blackout dates true across all pass levels.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Don't they just write it off as a business expense anyway?

For individuals, such expenses still need to reach 2% of AGI and even then you only are getting your income tax level back. It only makes sense if you create a business... anyone who says "I just write it off" and are just doing unreembursed business expenses are fools.
 

Donald Razorduck

Well-Known Member
WDW/DL are basically the equivalent of The Rolling Stones. Universal is sort of One Direction.

One is bigger than the world, still selling out stadiums, but only getting by because of their past fame. The other is the "hot right now" group, with nothing stopping their future success but themselves.

Or you become Robert Plant, play a handful of shows each year in places like the Memphis Botanical Garden doing a set that's two thirds Zeppelin for 35 bucks and continue to thumb his nose at the landslide of money a Zep reunion would pull.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I really do think we may be on the cusp of this general reaction against Walt Disney World. The last few changes in what came with an Annual Pass have been reductions, such as children prices disappearing or discounts being lowered. It has been a long time since Walt Disney Workd added to the benefits.

my kids won't have the same kind of attachment to Disney as my generation did... because there is no way I'm repeatedly overpaying for that trip. They haven't been on a park trip since 2009 unfortunately... and won't have that 'we went every year' or ever few years built into their childhood.
 
I'm not priced out. I just don't think it's worth it.

Then again I bought my last WDW AP in 2009. That's when it crossed my value to cost ratio.

I completely agree. I think I'm going to give Universal a shot when renewal time comes in March. I don't see the justification for the price increase.
 

DManRightHere

Well-Known Member
After browsing a few pages, people are generally yoset over price increases? I know little of annual passes.

Did Disney always have a weekday only pass for $259? Wouldn't this be cheaper than going 7 day park hopper if I go only on weekdays without blackout dates? With free parking I find that a better deal than Universal. We are planning to get a Universal season pass next year and go for about 4 weekends :)
 
After browsing a few pages, people are generally yoset over price increases? I know little of annual passes.

Did Disney always have a weekday only pass for $259? Wouldn't this be cheaper than going 7 day park hopper if I go only on weekdays without blackout dates? With free parking I find that a better deal than Universal. We are planning to get a Universal season pass net year and go for about 4 weekends :)

Disney has always had a weekday pass (as long as I've been a passholder). In that case it would be cheaper, but remember the pass is geared towards Florida residents and has limited use. I work M-F, so that pass is not a real option, I also dont want to worry about blockout dates, etc. Compare that to Universal where for 300 a year you get parking and no blockout dates. I really enjoy Disney though, far more than Universal but I had a hard time justifying my renewal this year. For the price of my renewal next year, I could basically buy my girlfriend and myself annual passes to Universal. It will become something to really think about.
 

Baltar

$4 billion for EPCOT
Disney has always had a weekday pass (as long as I've been a passholder). In that case it would be cheaper, but remember the pass is geared towards Florida residents and has limited use. I work M-F, so that pass is not a real option, I also dont want to worry about blockout dates, etc. Compare that to Universal where for 300 a year you get parking and no blockout dates. I really enjoy Disney though, far more than Universal but I had a hard time justifying my renewal this year. For the price of my renewal next year, I could basically buy my girlfriend and myself annual passes to Universal. It will become something to really think about.
Your comment about trying Universal...It would be a great year to do just that too. WDW is going through a lot of additions that won't be here for over a year. I'd save the money if I were you and experience new things. If you prefer WDW after the year, just go back. :)
 

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