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WSJ Imagineering Article

Gusey

Well-Known Member
With the possible exception of the special effects guy (did he design new effects or use existing tech…?!), where are the actual Imagineers in that picture…people like the Bob Gurr’s, Yale Gracey’s, Mary Blair’s etc….?!
For all we know, the Imagineers in that photo could go on to be of similar legacy as those you named. It reminds me od the first episode of Imagineer That in the 1990s with a very young Bruce Vaughn talking about animatronics in UoE. Just because their young now and working on a small project, doesn't mean they shouldn't be credited for their role on a project
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Because you specifically called out individuals who largely functioned in a certain type of role and have twice now referred to the people in the photo as not “actual Imagineers”. Who actually designed and fabricated Clawhauser are quite possibly not Imagineers and employees of a company like Garner Holt Productions.

Yes, I indeed called out Imagineers from the past as examples of what I consider actual Imagineers.
I never said any lead rolls needed to be called out.
The same as I wouldn’t consider my old firms Office Assistant, Office Manager or Marketing Manager architects (although they are part of the team), I don’t consider the other roles I called out in that picture as actual Imagineers, even though they are part of the team.
If that’s their company culture that’s fine, but I don’t have to agree with it.
That being said, I’m not losing sleep over any it, that’s for sure.
 
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donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
For all we know, the Imagineers in that photo could go on to be of similar legacy as those you named. It reminds me od the first episode of Imagineer That in the 1990s with a very young Bruce Vaughn talking about animatronics in UoE. Just because their young now and working on a small project, doesn't mean they shouldn't be credited for their role on a project

Yes, but they aren’t there at the present time.
Also, go back and read my posts…I never said they shouldn’t be credited, as they are indeed part of the team. I just thought it might be nice to see some actual hands-on Imagineers in some pics too.
Again, I get it…it’s a team thing and makes for good public “warm and fuzzies”.
None of that is lost on me.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Yes, I indeed called out Imagineers from the past as examples of what I consider actual Imagineers.
I never said any lead rolls needed to be called out.
The same as I wouldn’t consider my old firms Office Assistant, Office Manager or Marketing Manager architects (although they are part of the team), I don’t consider the other roles I called out in that picture as actual Imagineers, even though they are part of the team.
If that’s their company culture that’s fine, but I don’t have to agree with it.
That being said, I’m not losing sleep over any it, that’s for sure.
Yes, but they aren’t there at the present time.
Also, go back and read my posts…I never said they shouldn’t be credited, as they are indeed part of the team. I just thought it might be nice to see some actual hands-on Imagineers in some pics too.
Again, I get it…it’s a team thing and makes for good public “warm and fuzzies”.
None of that is lost on me.
Architect is a protected title that describes a specific profession within a specific discipline of work. Imagineer has always been a reference to employment and not job title or a certain discipline. That Imagineering contains many diverse disciplines has long been a bragging point in books and television specials. The origin of the term has to do with their work involving a variety of disciplines. So you’re complaining that Disney, who created the term and uses it to refer to their team, doesn’t use your undefined, arbitrary definition. And now you’re claiming the people in the photo weren’t “hands-on” based on a few vague job descriptions.
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Architect is a protected title that describes a specific profession within a specific discipline of work. Imagineer has always been a reference to employment and not job title or a certain discipline. That Imagineering contains many diverse disciplines has long been a bragging point in books and television specials. The origin of the term has to do with their work involving a variety of disciplines. So you’re complaining that Disney, who created the term and uses it to refer to their team, doesn’t use your undefined, arbitrary definition. And now you’re claiming the people in the photo weren’t “hands-on” based on a few vague job descriptions.

Yes, I’ve been fully aware of all of that for decades.
I just posted a little while ago that if that’s (and it is) their company culture, then that’s fine, but I don’t have to agree with it.
Bookkeepers, schedulers, etc. are not what I consider actual Imagineers, IMO. Deal with that however you wish.
Now, if the bookkeeper also invented new technology for the attraction I’d be, admittedly, seriously impressed…although I doubt that, but anything’s possible.
And, I wasn’t “complaining” about anything…in my initial post I was simply stating that I wish they would include others involved in the actual design and development, along with the support team.
I wasn’t “complaining” about anything, but you’re surely complaining about my opinion.
Again, either way, I’m not losing a wink of sleep over it.
 

Comped

Well-Known Member
Bookkeepers, schedulers, etc. are not what I consider actual Imagineers, IMO. Deal with that however you wish.
Imagineer as a title also extends to Disney Live Entertainment since Imagineering subsumed it years ago. And their higher ups, in my experience, love to point out that they should be called Imagineers as well. (I have my own thoughts tied to that subsument but that's just me.) Personally, as someone who has applied to a lot of Imagineering non-technical roles over the years, I'd happily call myself one if I ever got the chance...
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Imagineer as a title also extends to Disney Live Entertainment since Imagineering subsumed it years ago. And their higher ups, in my experience, love to point out that they should be called Imagineers as well. (I have my own thoughts tied to that subsument but that's just me.) Personally, as someone who has applied to a lot of Imagineering non-technical roles over the years, I'd happily call myself one if I ever got the chance...

Sorry, couldn’t resist…!!!!! :cautious:😁:hilarious:;)

IMG_6341.jpeg
 

donaldtoo

Well-Known Member
Imagineer as a title also extends to Disney Live Entertainment since Imagineering subsumed it years ago. And their higher ups, in my experience, love to point out that they should be called Imagineers as well. (I have my own thoughts tied to that subsument but that's just me.) Personally, as someone who has applied to a lot of Imagineering non-technical roles over the years, I'd happily call myself one if I ever got the chance...

Also…
I worked (one of my jobs) at our local mall Disney Store from ‘09-‘13, during the period I was laid off from and then rehired by the aforementioned architectural firm, during that recession.
At one point, I did a color sketch for an idea I had for a section/portion of a water slide.
As a CM, technically, we weren’t allowed to listen to or accept any ideas from Guests.
As a CM, I, on a whim, and knowing almost certainly this would never be possible (hey, a guy can dream ;)), contacted Disney legal to inquire about possibly submitting my idea. Of course, no dice. You had to already be within the Disney creative envelope…blue-skying, and all.
At 47 years old (at the time), I knew I would never be hired as an Imagineer, but it was kinda’ fun to entertain the thought of maybe gettin’ an idea out there anyway.
I remember posting that sketch in one of the Imagineering threads, but I can’t remember which one… 🤔 🤷‍♂️
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Because you specifically called out individuals who largely functioned in a certain type of role and have twice now referred to the people in the photo as not “actual Imagineers”. Who actually designed and fabricated Clawhauser are quite possibly not Imagineers and employees of a company like Garner Holt Productions.
Ah, yes Garner Holt Productions the company Disney outsources to create technology that Disney themselves invented.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
For all we know, the Imagineers in that photo could go on to be of similar legacy as those you named. It reminds me od the first episode of Imagineer That in the 1990s with a very young Bruce Vaughn talking about animatronics in UoE. Just because their young now and working on a small project, doesn't mean they shouldn't be credited for their role on a project
Bruce Vaugn doesn't seem that old to me. then again, I am thirty-five so my ability to tell how old someone is purely by their mannerisms and how young they look for their age is probably impaired.
 

Comped

Well-Known Member
Ah, yes Garner Holt Productions the company Disney outsources to create technology that Disney themselves invented.
I met Mr. Holt a few years ago, when he first brought out his baby Yoda AA (it's quite squishy). He was pretty happy with this arrangement (as I imagine anyone would be in his position). Disney seems to agree, or they'd bring it much more in-house. They could afford to.

Bruce Vaugn doesn't seem that old to me. then again, I am thirty-five so my ability to tell how old someone is purely by their mannerisms and how young they look for their age is probably impaired.
Bruce is apparently around 60, for whatever that's worth. Not terribly old for a senior imagineer.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
I met Mr. Holt a few years ago, when he first brought out his baby Yoda AA (it's quite squishy). He was pretty happy with this arrangement (as I imagine anyone would be in his position). Disney seems to agree, or they'd bring it much more in-house. They could afford to.


Bruce is apparently around 60, for whatever that's worth. Not terribly old for a senior imagineer.
Has Fitz retired yet? it seems he's the last 2nd Gen standing. Vaughn looks pretty god for sixty, then again, my memory of him is based around videos of him from around the period they were doing the re-imagining of DCA which was over fifteen years ago.
 

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