Would you support the axing of the dining plan?

[rsoxguy]

I can only guess you guys have got great restaurants at home,saying that we've only been going since 2004 but love the variety of cuisines available and yet to have a real bad meal.:wave:

My first day back on the Forum after illness and travels, and an interesting topic is staring me in the face. I believe that the dining plan should the way of the dinosaur. I think that it has crowded the restaurants and cheapened the dining experience within the parks. I realize that full restaurants are a wonderful thing for Disney, but bottom-line profits don't always yield long-term benefits for a company. When your reputation for pleasant dining experiences is gone, it's gone.

As to our Scottish friend's inquiry, allow me to answer with a non-Disney example. I eat at McDonald's from time to time. I do not think that their food is a culinary treat, but for the price and quick service it is acceptable. It is particularly good when I go as a dollar menunaire. If, however, McDonald's began charging eight dollars for a lowly cheeseburger, it would only serve to highlight the mediocre quality of the food when compared to the exorbitant pricing. I sometimes wonder why I'm there if the drive-through line takes more than five minutes. Why? Because cheap food is never worth a wait.

The food choices at Disney can at times be considered "good". The thing that makes them "mediocre" is the fact that the meals are overpriced, and we are made to feel that it is a privilege to get reservations for a meal at a Canadian restaurant serving food that can be found on any street corner restaurant for half the price. I wouldn't be prone to complain about tepid, dry burgers at Pecos Bill's if they cost four dollars with a side of fries. Alas, the dining plan has helped to make Disney Dining a chore rather than a pleasure. Remember, these are solely the opinions of rsoxguy, and the Red Sox organization can not be held responsible for their content.

 

[Mawg]

Dinning is expensive on vacation no matter where you go. I like that dinning is included in my package price to that I know how much the whole vacation is going to cost before and start paying for it early. If DDP was not offered, I would start to feel guilty about bringing out my wallet so much and start cutting cost in the middle of the vacation. The vacation itself would start to get a little stressful. DDP makes planning and budgeting the vacation less stressfull and more enjoyable durring. I say no way to gettng rid of it.

 

[Mawg]

To add to the comments about the food being "cheapened"...This is an indirect result of the DDP that did not have to happen. It was due to poor decisions to make meals more equal in cost across the dinning plan. There were other ways they could have done this. Even without the DDP it might have happened. Limited menus and offering the same choices across all the Quick Service locations is just easier and more cost effective. It did not have to be implemented because of DDP it just was a poor decision.

 

[Tinkerbella16]

The food choices at Disney can at times be considered "good". The thing that makes them "mediocre" is the fact that the meals are overpriced, and we are made to feel that it is a privilege to get reservations for a meal at a Canadian restaurant serving food that can be found on any street corner restaurant for half the price. I wouldn't be prone to complain about tepid, dry burgers at Pecos Bill's if they cost four dollars with a side of fries. Alas, the dining plan has helped to make Disney Dining a chore rather than a pleasure. Remember, these are solely the opinions of rsoxguy, and the Red Sox organization can not be held responsible for their content.

I completely agree with this entire paragraph! I wouldn't mind if they got rid of the DDP.. I don't rely on it. If they are offering it free when I'm going, I will take it (and I took it for my Sept trip)... but I miss the days when you could walk-up to a restaurant in World Showcase or any restaurant for that matter, and be able to get a seat. Walking through a country and noticing a restaurant that you never knew existed, so you decide to try it out.. you can't do things like that anymore! It has definately become a chore.. waking up at 5-6am for ADR's is obsurd in my opinion. I made my reservations after the 180 day mark on my time and got what I wanted. Most of those places like Le Cellier, are overrated anyway.

 

[Mawg]

From a consumer point of view, is it nice to be able to walk into a restaraunt and get a seat when ever you want...YES. From the buisness point of view, is it nice to have your restaraunt booked 90 days in advanced and most of the meals are already paid for and cheapened...YES. Who's going to win?

 

[MVP Heather]

The Free DDP always seems to be a hot topic. I have gone to WDW with and without the plan and have noticed changes. Since the DDP started, choices have gotten fewer and of course prices have gone up. It started out having 3 courses, not just main course and dessert like it does now. Personally, I wish I could choose between appetizer and dessert, but that defeats the purpose of only doing one or the other because of the time it takes to get people in and out of the TS restaurants. I haven't noticed the quality of the actual food that I am consuming going down.
My biggest complaint would be the the cups of chocolate cake vs the large yummy layered piece of cake we got in the past at quick service restaurants. :slurp: It was soo good!
We were asked at DHS to take a survey regarding food quality last Sept. maybe they are trying to find other solutions to the complaints? I really enjoy prepaying for my meals on the DDP and not worrying about cost. This year, we are staying at OKW in Sept. with friends that are DVC members and haven't decided whether we are paying for the meal plan or not. My take is that I am on vacation, I will eat what I like with or without the DDP.

 

[WWWD]

I say keep the dining plan, but add menu choices that are not included in the dining plan. Applebee's, for example, has a 2 for $20 deal on select items, but doesn't include all menu items.

That way people who prefer to prepay for their vacations or could not afford to experience the signature restaurants with out the dining plan can still enjoy the place. And, those with a finer culinary taste (not necessary me) can enjoy a meal also.

 

[xdan0920]

Not only would I personally never get rid of the DDP as we usually use a "free" dining pin or when "free" dining is offered - it's nice to not have to worry about ordering an entree based on price. and it gives people an opportunity to eat at a lot of nicer restaurants they would never consider without the DDP.

But Disney will never get rid of it. It brings so many more people to the parks and has restaurants filling up 180 days ahead of time. The restaurants are making bank on the DDP.

You may not be worrying about the price of the entree. But you can bet your butt the resturant is. And since they get a set amount from Disney for your dining credit, they have to lower the quality and variety of the options to keep pace.

I got to speak with Richard Debler at La Hacienda shortly after the first opened about this very subject. According to him the dining plan does have a direct effect on the menu. Whether that has an effect on quality is up to the diner but according to him there are simply things that they can not put on a menu because they cost too much. The restaurants are getting paid a fixed amount for each meal and they of course must keep their cost below this amount. This is why you will see cheaper cuts of meat for steaks, smaller sizes of good cuts, etc.

Nice to see some evidence to back up the prevailing point of view. Thanks for this.

 

[Phonedave]

I got to speak with Richard Debler at La Hacienda shortly after the first opened about this very subject. According to him the dining plan does have a direct effect on the menu. Whether that has an effect on quality is up to the diner but according to him there are simply things that they can not put on a menu because they cost too much. The restaurants are getting paid a fixed amount for each meal and they of course must keep their cost below this amount. This is why you will see cheaper cuts of meat for steaks, smaller sizes of good cuts, etc.

Thank you, some real "proof". Or at least semi anicdotal proof.

I for one would love to see the DDP go away. I fail to see what is wrong with having tiers of restaruants. If you can't afford the expensive ones, don't eat there, or eat there less.

What if they started to offer a Disney Room Plan. You buy your stay in a block, and then you can stay wherever you want. Quicky the Deluxe resorts would all come to the same level as Pop and the All-Stars, if they were all getting paid the same.

At the very least, allow the restaruants to put non-DDP items on the menu, or have them for an additional up charge. Tell them you must carry 3 DDP entrees, and then you can add whatever you want, for an additional price. Most pre fixe places do something like that, hell even Victoria & Alberts does it.

-dave

 

[Computer Magic]

There have been food plans at WDW since at least 1997, if not before.

I doubt they will ever completely disappear, just be modified as Disney sees fit.

This is what makes these threads laughable. Blaming the dining plan for low quailty food. I agree the selection are less and some places the food isn't as good. However, I blame the overall Disney Management of dumping down Disney for higher profits. A food plan has been around since I started going in 95, yet the food quality changed in 2005.

 

[bethymouse]

What a heated debate!

I guess I think of it as a "complete package plan" when I go on vacation. I don't have to worry about 'paying' for my meals.
I agree w/ everone's points and I understand. I for one am guilty of falling into the "free dining" promotions!
I checked it out on the website and compared prices for the room discount(deluxe) and free dining, and it was about the same price... maybe 100$ OR SO DIFFERENCE here or there.:shrug: That of course is w/ the entire package including park tickets.
All in all, I have never really experienced a lower quality of food, just maybe a smaller selection of choices ( such as the great debate of appetizers vs. desserts).
I say keep the dining "plan" and the cost relatively the same ( non-discounted).:shrug:

 

[jpittore1]

We love the DPP

We utilized the DPP on our last seven trips and we enjoy the variety and types of food available at Disney. The only restaurant we had awful meals at was the Brown Derby (two separate trips). I will never go back to this Signature Restaurant for two meals. Our steaks were dry and tuna overcooked....

On our last trip in 2011, I kept track of the total bill from each restaurant and each snack (they give you a receipt and show the actual cost). We were there for 5 days and had the deluxe plan. I made ADR for all sit down meals. Many times we did NOT order dessert at lunch...I compared all the receipts to the total cost of the plan and saved 16% by using the DPP!!

We're a family of four and I love not have to fight with the children and tell them "no dessert"....if they want dessert order it....

As a DVC member, I considered the Tables of Wonderland option for our June 2012 trip, but I found out they automatically add tip of 18%, so the 20% discount, basically balances out the discount. ( I know you still have to tip on the DPP). I just disagree with the automatic tip. If you sit down and work out the numbers, the ToW card would be a good choice only if you have two sit down meals and NO snacks. If you have three sit downs and snacks, the DPP make more economic sense....to me anyhow...

I love the DPP and will continue to purchase.

 

[flynnibus]

This is what makes these threads laughable. Blaming the dining plan for low quailty food. I agree the selection are less and some places the food isn't as good. However, I blame the overall Disney Management of dumping down Disney for higher profits. A food plan has been around since I started going in 95, yet the food quality changed in 2005.

Dining plans have been around much longer than that. The point isn't the existence of the plan - but how the company uses it and how dominating it becomes. When Disney starts giving Dining away for free for large periods.. and heavily pushing it... DDP becomes a dominating portion of diners and not just a subset. When a large portion of your diners are eating on a fixed revenue... you can no longer treat it as an exception, but the norm.

Disney influences the participation in the dining plan by the prices set. When the menu prices go up, the ddp looks like an even better deal.. and more people use it. Then even more diners are eating on the cheap instead of paying normal prices. Then your revenue stream is hurt.. and you can either lower costs and/or raise prices. We've seen both happening.

The restaurants have to work within the limits of DDP.. and since they don't have separate DDP menus, the full menu takes the burden.

As long as the DDP offers the full menu from the place, it will always act as a negative on what the menu offers.

 

[xdan0920]

We utilized the DPP on our last seven trips and we enjoy the variety and types of food available at Disney. The only restaurant we had awful meals at was the Brown Derby (two separate trips). I will never go back to this Signature Restaurant for two meals. Our steaks were dry and tuna overcooked....

On our last trip in 2011, I kept track of the total bill from each restaurant and each snack (they give you a receipt and show the actual cost). We were there for 5 days and had the deluxe plan. I made ADR for all sit down meals. Many times we did NOT order dessert at lunch...I compared all the receipts to the total cost of the plan and saved 16% by using the DPP!!

We're a family of four and I love not have to fight with the children and tell them "no dessert"....if they want dessert order it....

As a DVC member, I considered the Tables of Wonderland option for our June 2012 trip, but I found out they automatically add tip of 18%, so the 20% discount, basically balances out the discount. ( I know you still have to tip on the DPP). I just disagree with the automatic tip. If you sit down and work out the numbers, the ToW card would be a good choice only if you have two sit down meals and NO snacks. If you have three sit downs and snacks, the DPP make more economic sense....to me anyhow...

I love the DPP and will continue to purchase.

A tip of 18% is pretty standard stuff, and since the DDP does not include tip, you still should be tipping that amount. It is definitely not a washout on the 20% savings.

 

[flynnibus]

From my trip in '09.. 2 adults, 3 kids for 5 days

We had 4 table service reservations during the trip, 3 dinners, and 1 breakfast. I'll also break out 'concessions' purchases as normally people look at those buys differently. However, given it was completely oppressive heat while we where there, there was 'no holds barred' kind of buying on drinks. If we need one, we got one. Especially the frozen drinks. On table service, usually I wouldn't get an entree, so these prices are not quite 5 people eating..

Table Service Meals
$ 88.00 Sci-Fi Dine-In
$121.13 Tusker House Character Breakfast
$108.14 Whispering Canyon
$ 73.55 San Angel

Counter Service Meals
$ 35.09 Food Court
$ 7.45 Food Court
$ 19.24 Food Court
$ 28.61 Backlot Express
$ 13.90 Food Court
$ 29.26 Food Court
$ 10.79 Food Court
$ 28.06 Caseys Corner
$ 13.29 Cosmic Rays
$ 17.64 Cosmic Rays

Cart Sales
$ 6.16 MK
$ 7.01 DHS
$ 7.55 DHS
$ 5.00 MK
$ 7.01 DHS
$10.09 DHS
$ 6.53 DHS
$10.75 DAK
$ 4.04 DAK
$13.50 EPC
$11.25 DHS
$ 7.01 DHS
$ 5.10 DHS
$ 4.57 MK
$ 7.01 MK

Total Food Spending
$ 390.94 Table Service
$ 203.33 Counter Service
$ 112.58 Cart Sales
---------------------
$ 706.85 Total

And it's worth noting much of that wouldn't be covered under DDP.. as we eat when/where we want.. not on a rationed calendar. In some ways DDP would have opened up a ton more meals.. but if I don't want to sit down for a meal.. I don't want to be guilted into doing it either.

 

[RonAnnArbor]

Oh My Gosh!!!! WHO thinks that Disney created the Dining Plan as a "convenience" to its visitors at WDW???????

The Dining Plan was created to MAKE MONEY -- for the typical family, you actually don't even use all your credits on your dining plans -- and it's all prepaid and none of it is refunded....and it spreads diners through all the restaurants that are performing moderately or poorly...and you actually spend MORE money on the dining plan than most families would spend if they just used counter service.

Seriously, if you think that Disney Enterprises does anything for the convenience of the visitor, then think again and re-examine how much magic dust you think is sprinkled on these things.

Everything there is about Money. More Money. And Lots More Money.

 

[G00fyDad]

Oh My Gosh!!!! WHO thinks that Disney created the Dining Plan as a "convenience" to its visitors at WDW???????

Umm, no one. Thanks for asking. :wave:

for the typical family, you actually don't even use all your credits on your dining plans

Speak for yourself. We use them all. As a matter of fact we double up TS credits to eat at places like CRT. We'd prefer they base it on days instead of nights.

and it's all prepaid and none of it is refunded

Again, nothing we didn't know. :wave:

and you actually spend MORE money on the dining plan than most families would spend if they just used counter service.

Maybe we prefer to eat at the TS locations. Without the DDP I wouldn't bother. But since it is there I will definately eat at those TS locations. If you feel comfortable enough to eat CS only during your stay then have a ball. :wave:

Seriously, if you think that Disney Enterprises does anything for the convenience of the visitor, then think again and re-examine how much magic dust you think is sprinkled on these things.

Thanks for basically calling everyone that likes the DDP stupid. You might want to re-examine how narcissistic you are being. :wave:

Everything there is about Money. More Money. And Lots More Money.

That's because it is a business. We got it. Thanks. :wave: I doubt anyone actually thought that Disney was in it for the public image and world peace.

 

[njDizFan]

Dining plans have been around much longer than that. The point isn't the existence of the plan - but how the company uses it and how dominating it becomes. When Disney starts giving Dining away for free for large periods.. and heavily pushing it... DDP becomes a dominating portion of diners and not just a subset. When a large portion of your diners are eating on a fixed revenue... you can no longer treat it as an exception, but the norm.

Disney influences the participation in the dining plan by the prices set. When the menu prices go up, the ddp looks like an even better deal.. and more people use it. Then even more diners are eating on the cheap instead of paying normal prices. Then your revenue stream is hurt.. and you can either lower costs and/or raise prices. We've seen both happening.

The restaurants have to work within the limits of DDP.. and since they don't have separate DDP menus, the full menu takes the burden.

As long as the DDP offers the full menu from the place, it will always act as a negative on what the menu offers.

This sums it up very well. DDP not only created an environment where price points continue to increase to justify the plan but also streamlined the menus to allow for less vendors and thusly less choices.

 

[JeffnPa]

Its a choice if you want the DDP then you can pay for it, if not that is as well. But I have a problem with people going to WDW for the "Food" Really???? I go to Disney for the "magic" for the kids to believe and for the adults to be kids again. If I want good food I will go to New Orleans, NYC, Vegas, Miami. But not in theme park where millions of people go. Expect park food folks. :hammer:

 

[aladdin2007]

A tip of 18% is pretty standard stuff, and since the DDP does not include tip, you still should be tipping that amount. It is definitely not a washout on the 20% savings.

My complaint with the automatic tip is, once the server knows you are using Tables in Wonderland, they dont care about you because they are going to automatically get their tip anyway so they rush you and turn into poor service etc. We have found this to be more and more the case and its not good. When asked if were on any dining plan I just say no, and I dont show the tables in wonderland until its time for the check.