Woman caught smoking at WL...

[BiggerTigger]

As a former smoker, I can tell you it is not easy being sent someplace else to enjoy the freedom. However, she was farily warned about her behaviour and what where is appropriate place to smoke at. I don't feel sorry for her. Lowering the amount makes little difference, obviously she didn't care enough to do the right thing. I am sure that if she explained about the fine, they may have reduced it or dropped it all together, begging for mercy. But to be fined again, tough.
I do feel sorry for her child and she should have told the truth, it isn't Disney who took all her money, she is the at wrong here and should convey to her son that rules are made to be followed, by everyone.

 

[banimall]

I can't believe I hadn't thought of this before, this individual is actually a genius blaming the fact she can't buy a doll because of Mickey Mouse. I'll have to tell my kids, "I'm sorry we can't go to Disney World because Mickey doesn't like you". Now, my kids won't hate me, they'll hate Mickey Mouse and in turn never want to go to Disney World. Then when they realize the truth, just deny the whole thing..... Brilliant

 

[MaXXimus]

You raise a good point. After a person pays in full they are agreeing to a contract. When Disney changed their smoking policy to disallow smoking even on the balconies (effectively changing the contract), was any sort of consideration given to these patrons to make the contract legally binding? Otherwise, I don't see how Disney can *legally* enforce these rules on people who have paid in full before the changes took place.

Gotta love Business Law!

Look at this way... its Disneys property and they do have the right to enforce whatever rules they want... hell they could make all hotels naked only if they wanted too and then toss you off their property if you came out wearing 1 sock .

But seriously, it is their property so they have no restrictions on what they can and cannot request of their guests. It would be like me not allowing anyone on my own property that smoked. If they are within my property line I have every right to call the police and have them removed.

Also as stated earlier... Disney makes no promise for a smoking room. Just because you ask for one does not mean you will receive one, because they could be all booked (of course this is speaking on terms before the ban). So whatever contract you sign it does not read that you are 100% for a fact going to get it, only when and if that type of room is available.

 

[MaXXimus]

Edited to say this reads more like an internet rumor/urban legend I'm not saying the OP is making this up but the person they were talking to may be making up or exaggerating the situation.

I can 100% for a fact say that what I posted is pure fact and not fiction, rumor or exaggerated in the slightest. My wife was present during the majority of the confrontation with this woman and the front desk. I am sure someone on here could verify this by insiders that could contact WL.

 

[OneLuckyMom]

Walt Disney Travel Company Walt Disney World Resort Terms and Conditions (from 1/13/2007): "Terms and conditions are subject to change by Disney without notice"

"...types of rooms...are on a 'request basis only' and are subject to availability at the time of check-in."

 

[MaXXimus]

Walt Disney Travel Company Walt Disney World Resort Terms and Conditions (from 1/13/2007): "Terms and conditions are subject to change by Disney without notice"

"...types of rooms...are on a 'request basis only' and are subject to availability at the time of check-in."

Exactly! Just like when I requested a room for my kids to be connected... all they said is they would "try" but could not promise.

 

[lewisc]

I'm not suggesting you made anything up. Rather the woman may have made up, exaggerated or embellished all or part of her story. I also wonder if there were issues other then smoking. It doesn't sound like the women is "playing with a full deck" although I could see her point if she smoked on balcony during past trips and Disney accepted her money without informing her of the policy change. I doubt anyone who works at Disney is allowed to comment on this.

I'm not sure I like the idea of security people using cameras to "spy" on us. Guests at AKL are warned but I don't remember any similar warnings about cameras in other resorts.

hell they could make all hotels naked only if they wanted too and then toss you off their property if you came out wearing 1 sock

I guess a hotel could cater to nudists but that's the kind of policy that would have to be disclosed prior to accepting a customers money. Do you think Disney could inform guests of a new, no clothing allowed policy when they check in?

Does anyone think that could be done under the "terms and conditions are subject to change" disclaimer? That kind of proves the point, the boilerplate disclaimer language doesn't give a company a blank check to make major changes.

I can 100% for a fact say that what I posted is pure fact and not fiction, rumor or exaggerated in the slightest. My wife was present during the majority of the confrontation with this woman and the front desk. I am sure someone on here could verify this by insiders that could contact WL.

 

[Lauriebar]

While I understand the logic behind what you are saying, I am also confused as to what makes this different from people buying a ticket to the Magic Kingdom and then finding out that a certain ride or show will be closed on that day even though the last time I visited the park it was. Disney took my payment in full and my expectations of a fully operational park were not met.

Using your arguement, wouldn't that person be under the assumption that their MK experience would be the same as the last time they had been there? Disney did not call you to let you know that the ride/show would be down.

I am just saying that one must be an informed consumer and not assume any service and/or rule will be the same as a previous visit.

 

[lewisc]

Attractions are always closed for rehab.

I use a non-hopper ticket to enter EPCOT and discover FW is closed for the day. No test track, no SSE, no Soarin, no Living Seas etc.

Under those circumstance I'd be justified in asking for a refund or being allowed to enter another park, even though my ticket isn't a hopper.

An informed consumer doesn't have to check after he already paid in full. I have no sympathy for smokers who booked after the non-smoking policy was announced but can undersand the issue of paid in full guests who aren't allowed to check in under the terms of his reservation.

While I understand the logic behind what you are saying, I am also confused as to what makes this different from people buying a ticket to the Magic Kingdom and then finding out that a certain ride or show will be closed on that day even though the last time I visited the park it was. Disney took my payment in full and my expectations of a fully operational park were not met.

Using your arguement, wouldn't that person be under the assumption that their MK experience would be the same as the last time they had been there? Disney did not call you to let you know that the ride/show would be down.

I am just saying that one must be an informed consumer and not assume any service and/or rule will be the same as a previous visit.

 

[mattjs]

We were at the Yacht Club a couple weeks ago, and were not told about this at check-in. If they're going to enforce a $250 fine they gotta tell people. I find it hard to believe that if you said you weren't told at check-in that they wouldn't waive it the first time, but who knows.

 

[brainpile3000]

While I understand the logic behind what you are saying, I am also confused as to what makes this different from people buying a ticket to the Magic Kingdom and then finding out that a certain ride or show will be closed on that day even though the last time I visited the park it was. Disney took my payment in full and my expectations of a fully operational park were not met.

Using your arguement, wouldn't that person be under the assumption that their MK experience would be the same as the last time they had been there? Disney did not call you to let you know that the ride/show would be down.

I am just saying that one must be an informed consumer and not assume any service and/or rule will be the same as a previous visit.

In the case of attractions being closed, I'm sure on your Guest Pass or wherever you booked your visit, there is some fine print somewhere that reads very similar to what to what OneLuckyMom found. If instead the tickets stated all rides would be open well then....

But there are a few assumptions you have to make in order to make my argument correct. First, there is no fine print that says these terms will change without notice. Second, you were allowed at the time of booking and payment (making the contract binding) to smoke on the balconies. Now, any subsequent adjustments to the contract WILL NOT be legally binding unless there is further consideration given because the changes to the regulations were not part of your previous contract and thus you did not agree when you entered into it. If, however, when the rules and terms were changed to disallow smoking, Disney gave EXTRA consideration to you (could be as small as a dollar to as large as a weeks extra stay) and you accepted this, then they would legally be able to enforce the new contract. And, to conclude, Disney would not be able to enforce new smoking bans on rooms booked and paid for before the change.


But, since there is a line in the current contract that states terms can change without notice, people are SOL.

 

[Thessair]

Walt Disney Travel Company Walt Disney World Resort Terms and Conditions (from 1/13/2007): "Terms and conditions are subject to change by Disney without notice"

"...types of rooms...are on a 'request basis only' and are subject to availability at the time of check-in."

Thank you, I knew that was around somewhere and I just couldn't locate it.

 

[TP2000]

What a horrible parent to tell your kid that Mickey took all your money. And to get caught twice for doing something she new she wasn't supposed to do? I hope her kid doesn't turn out as selfish and she is. Mickey didn't take her money, she threw it away. Moron.

Exactly. This woman has no one to blame but herself.

Good for WL hotel management for sticking to their guns for most of it. Althought letting her back in the room a third time was way more than she deserved.

 

[LoriMistress]

They made it extremely clear. She got caught TWICE and got fine twice. She didn't make a mistake...she's just too stupid.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Is this woman saying she didn't know she was in a non-smoking room or that she wasn't allowed to smoke on the balcony? Don't all the non-smoking rooms have the little crossed-out cigarette on the door? Right next to the key card slot? Have they removed those since all rooms are non-smoking?

Also, I remember reading a post from a CRO CM that all non-smoking rooms included the balcony as being non-smoking.

 

[OneLuckyMom]

We were at the Yacht Club a couple weeks ago, and were not told about this at check-in. If they're going to enforce a $250 fine they gotta tell people. I find it hard to believe that if you said you weren't told at check-in that they wouldn't waive it the first time, but who knows.

Were you informed that you had a "No Smoking" room?

All hotels will charge you fees to repair a room if you damage it. None of them tell you explicity when you check in that "if you pull the toilet out of the wall, we're going to charge you to fix it". Well, smoking in a non-smoking room is damage as well - the hotel incurs a significant cost in deep cleaning the room to rid it of the smoke, as well as a possible loss of revenue on the room while it is out of commission for that cleaning.

Now how much smoking on a balcony damages the room can be debated, so possibly the charge is out of whack here. But the fact that there is SOME sort of charge is valid - I'm sure the curtains would pick up some of the smoke at least - as well as kicking her out of her room for smoking the second time.

 

[OneLuckyMom]

Out of curiousity, I dug up the FL law prohibiting smoking in non-smoking hotel rooms: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/data/session/2003A/House/bills/billtext/pdf/h0063Aer.pdf

It does seem to indicate balconies are included in this ban, per the following:

"Enclosed indoor workplace" means any place where one
or more persons engages in work, and which place is
predominantly or totally bounded on all sides and above by
physical barriers, regardless of whether such barriers consist
of or include, without limitation, uncovered openings, screened
or otherwise partially covered openings; or open or closed
windows, jalousies, doors, or the like. A place is
"predominantly" bounded by physical barriers during any time
when both of the following conditions exist:
(a) It is more than 50 percent covered from above by a
physical barrier that excludes rain, and
(b) More than 50 percent of the combined surface area of
its sides is covered by closed physical barriers. In
calculating the percentage of side surface area covered by
closed physical barriers, all solid surfaces that block air
flow, except railings, must be considered as closed physical
barriers. This section applies to all such enclosed indoor
workplaces and enclosed parts thereof without regard to whether​

work is occurring at any given time.

Since a hotel balcony is typically bordered by the 3 wall of the hotel, and often covered, I'm sure most of them fit this 50% rule and are therefore covered by the ban.

Given the law, I'm surprised WDW has not cracked down on smoking on balconies of non-smoking rooms earlier, quite frankly.

 

[MickeyJman06]

tired of news topics now
[yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwn]

 

[LoriMistress]

Nevermind...the picture works.

 

[mattjs]

Were you informed that you had a "No Smoking" room?

All hotels will charge you fees to repair a room if you damage it. None of them tell you explicity when you check in that "if you pull the toilet out of the wall, we're going to charge you to fix it". Well, smoking in a non-smoking room is damage as well - the hotel incurs a significant cost in deep cleaning the room to rid it of the smoke, as well as a possible loss of revenue on the room while it is out of commission for that cleaning.

Now how much smoking on a balcony damages the room can be debated, so possibly the charge is out of whack here. But the fact that there is SOME sort of charge is valid - I'm sure the curtains would pick up some of the smoke at least - as well as kicking her out of her room for smoking the second time.

Yup we were told it was a non smoking room. A reasonable person would assume that if they tore the toilet out of the wall they would be charged for that. And a reasonable person could deduce that smoking in a non smoking room would cause "damage" to the room and they might be charged for that. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to assume that smoking on a balcony (say with the door to the room closed) would result in a $250 fine. There I think the burden is on Disney to inform the guest that smoking anywhere (including the balcony outside of the room) will result in a heavy charge. Not to mention, if you've got a policy that you're going to enforce for the first time, it's just smart guest relations to let people know about it up front.

"You have a non-smoking room, and I just have to mention that we are enforcing a policy that any smoking either in the room or outside on the balcony, even with the balcony door closed will result in a $250 charge. And we do monitor the balconies including with cameras around the resort." Easy as that.

Clearly tell people what the deal is, and 99.999% of them will do the right thing. Especially with areas that might be a little gray (like smoking on a balcony) and particularly if you mention the fine, and that there are cameras monitoring the balconies as well.