Will these prices ever cap out?

[ppete1975]

What I would love to see is what attendance would look like if you couldn't finance it with credit. If people had to save the money to go and actually have the money in cash in the bank. Would the parks look a lot emptier. The truth is that they can ask anything they want, and people will go. People aren't afraid of debt, and plastic is king.
IF you want to really see what life has become click this link to see every minute detail of debt.
BTW everyone including children should look at this.

https://usdebtclock.org/

 

[xdan0920]

What I would love to see is what attendance would look like if you couldn't finance it with credit. If people had to save the money to go and actually have the money in cash in the bank. Would the parks look a lot emptier. The truth is that they can ask anything they want, and people will go. People aren't afraid of debt, and plastic is king.
IF you want to really see what life has become click this link to see every minute detail of debt.
BTW everyone including children should look at this.

https://usdebtclock.org/

I’ll show it to my 5 year old when he gets home from Kindergarten. I’ll post my results.

 

[bryanfze55]

You’re wrong. Middle income Americans carry a staggering amount of debt.

So do high income Americans. Of course, we know that everyone who posts on the Internet has perfect bodies, perfect kids, and above all, perfect finances, but let’s be real... Between cars, mortgage, student loans, medical bills, etc, most people have debt.

The general presence of debt doesn’t mean people are charging vacations to credit card. I still don’t believe a significant number of people are putting $5-10K WDW trips all on credit with no means to pay it off (I put vacations on credit card to get the points but pay it off immediately). But I am a man of reason who would be open to admitting he was wrong if I saw evidence to the contrary.

 

[Kamikaze]

Why do you assume people are miserable for 51 weeks out of the year?

Well, they are, but it doesn't have anything to do with Disney.

 

[RustySpork]

I think you’re wrong...people with money don’t rack up a couple of trillion in college debt or a couple trillion of credit card debt...

It’s those without the money that did.

People put vacations on a credit card...they absolutely never should - as vacations are a complete luxury/disposal product - but they do.

BUT ZERO INTEREST FOR SIX MONTHS ON MY DISNEY VISA!!!!1

 

[xdan0920]

So do high income Americans. Of course, we know that everyone who posts on the Internet has perfect bodies, perfect kids, and above all, perfect finances, but let’s be real... Between cars, mortgage, student loans, medical bills, etc, most people have debt.

The general presence of debt doesn’t mean people are charging vacations to credit card. I still don’t believe a significant number of people are putting $5-10K WDW trips all on credit with no means to pay it off (I put vacations on credit card to get the points but pay it off immediately). But I am a man of reason who would be open to admitting he was wrong if I saw evidence to the contrary.

I don’t know where we would find this information outside of anecdotal evidence. FWIW, most people have the means to pay it off, eventually. Average rolling debt for an American is almost 7k. So people are paying, but most don’t pay in full, or even close.

For example through a weird confluence of events I was shown a contemporaries (same approx income bracket, same neighborhood, same age) credit card statement. 28k in debt on a single card. Spent 6k last month and only paid down 2k. How common is this? How could we know.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh I think it does happen. I just don’t think it’s THAT common. I would venture that the people putting a vacation on a credit card are people with very solid incomes who anticipate being able to pay off the balance in a “reasonable” amount of time. But they can’t pay cash because they have a 3,000 square foot house, two new cars in the driveway, little Johnny and Mary are in every sport possible...

I don’t think it’s poor people who just so desperately want to go to Disney that are charging vacations. A lot of truly poor people can’t even get credit.

But yes charging a vacation is never a good idea. I think student loans are a different story, because of course the average 18-year-old doesn’t have money to pay for college out of pocket. I think student loans rank far lower on the scale of irresponsibility than credit card debt. But it is still a problem that I’m not sure how to address on a macro level. On a micro level, I can say sending your kids to community college and then a state university is probably the best way to go if you’re not wealthy. Another topic entirely.

All the data completely contradicts your opinions...which I think you should know being firmly of the millennial age.

Americans are wreckless with money and it has grown to epidemic proportions since I was a kid.

I have read that the pattern is being broken with gen y’s and z’s to some extent.

That’s a good result from a terrible cause: banks don’t trust them with credit the way they did their parents...they own less tangible assets that cost money...less kids...etc etc etc

It’s fun to watch. People spent like drunken sailors at Disney. They do. And will

26.99% apr makes that cupcake party you had in 2016 taste a little “moldy” now

 

[bryanfze55]

All the data completely contradicts your opinions...which I think you should know being firmly of the millennial age.

Americans are wreckless with money and it has grown to epidemic proportions since I was a kid.

I have read that the pattern is being broken with gen y’s and z’s to some extent.

That’s a good result from a terrible cause: banks don’t trust them with credit the way they did their parents...they own less tangible assets that cost money...less kids...etc etc etc

It’s fun to watch. People spent like drunken sailors at Disney. They do. And will

26.99% apr makes that cupcake party you had in 2016 taste a little “moldy” now

I agree that Americans are reckless, I just think there’s varying degrees of recklessness. There is data that the average American household has $15,000 in CC debt. But what does that mean? It’s an average. Plenty of wealthy households may carry much more than that without worry. I would need to know the median CC balance of middle-income households to form a strong opinion on the issue. I can only speak anecdotally.

 

[Model3 McQueen]

BUT ZERO INTEREST FOR SIX MONTHS ON MY DISNEY VISA!!!!1

Don't even joke like that, I somehow got into 6k credit card debt with my shenanigans and I payed for it til I recently got a 0% for 18 months transfer card. Slowly but surely getting back to where I need to be.

Am I a moron? Yes. Can I make up for lost investment money? Well, not if Disney keeps raising their prices

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

BUT ZERO INTEREST FOR SIX MONTHS ON MY DISNEY VISA!!!!1

And then a nice commission for the next 6 years

Don't even joke like that, I somehow got into 6k credit card debt with my shenanigans and I payed for it til I recently got a 0% for 18 months transfer card. Slowly but surely getting back to where I need to be.

Am I a moron? Yes. Can I make up for lost investment money? Well, not if Disney keeps raising their prices

The point is it’s easy and widespread. And you corrected yours - while many settle into a pattern of acceptance and just get comfortable paying high fees for past stuff

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And right on queue...

US households now hold a record $14 trillion in debt

US households now hold more than $14 trillion of debt, a new record, the New York Federal Reserve said this week.

www.cnn.com

 

[bryanfze55]

And right on queue...

US households now hold a record $14 trillion in debt

US households now hold more than $14 trillion of debt, a new record, the New York Federal Reserve said this week.

www.cnn.com

With all due respect, this data just indicates total debt is growing. This includes mortgage debt, which is fine if taken at a reasonable level. How much of it is personal loan debt or credit card debt? Things that would indicate poor consumer choices (I.E. charging a Disney vacation).

It could reflect the fact that housing prices have climbed so high in recent years and thus, people need to take on more mortgage debt to afford a house. This is certainly an economic problem but exists more at the macro level than the micro level - it isn’t necessarily a sign of poor discretionary spending habits.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

With all due respect, this data just indicates total debt is growing. This includes mortgage debt, which is fine if taken at a reasonable level. How much of it is personal loan debt or credit card debt? Things that would indicate poor consumer choices (I.E. charging a Disney vacation).

It could reflect the fact that housing prices have climbed so high in recent years and thus, people need to take on more mortgage debt to afford a house. This is certainly an economic problem but exists more at the macro level than the micro level - it isn’t necessarily a sign of poor discretionary spending habits.

Granted...

But with all due respect: when people are told things are “booming”...they have no fear and borrow even more. Often well beyond their means. Because it’s specifically not fueled by real estate doesn’t make it any less dangerous.

We’re getting off course...I’d just suggest not to dismiss how much wdw/Disneyland travel is paid through wreckless means. A lot higher than you’d provably believe.

 

[Chef Mickey]

No, just like everything else. Get over it.

 

[DfromATX]

I haven't read through all the posts, but I can imagine what they say. I'm happy to report that I don't recall any horrible line experiences. Yay!

 

[networkpro]

Granted...

But with all due respect: when people are told things are “booming”...they have no fear and borrow even more. Often well beyond their means. Because it’s specifically not fueled by real estate doesn’t make it any less dangerous.

We’re getting off course...I’d just suggest not to dismiss how much wdw/Disneyland travel is paid through wreckless means. A lot higher than you’d provably believe.

Unfortunately there are a few arguments implied here : financial illiteracy, entitlements vs economics, and the natural increase in population.

The government doesn't mandate salaries nor how any funds left after taxes are spent.
No company is required to set admission prices on a sliding scale based income.
Admission to the parks are first come, first serve up to either the fire marshals posted limit or any level the company sets below that.
Park hours are as set by the company normal, extra magic, and hard ticketed events, not by wishes.

 

[RustySpork]

Unfortunately there are a few arguments implied here : financial illiteracy, entitlements vs economics, and the natural increase in population.

The government doesn't mandate salaries nor how any funds left after taxes are spent.
No company is required to set admission prices on a sliding scale based income.
Admission to the parks are first come, first serve up to either the fire marshals posted limit or any level the company sets below that.
Park hours are as set by the company normal, extra magic, and hard ticketed events, not by wishes.

If you control the fire marshals, do you really have to observe "posted limits"? /s

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Unfortunately there are a few arguments implied here : financial illiteracy, entitlements vs economics, and the natural increase in population.

The government doesn't mandate salaries nor how any funds left after taxes are spent.
No company is required to set admission prices on a sliding scale based income.
Admission to the parks are first come, first serve up to either the fire marshals posted limit or any level the company sets below that.
Park hours are as set by the company normal, extra magic, and hard ticketed events, not by wishes.

I’m more than willing to make a social/economic construct...

But I’m not doing it here. It’s not a statement on wealth gap or price controls or any other such Friedman angst talking points...

I’m just saying people overspend beyond their means more than you think in Disney parks. I’ve got some stories on that. But just advising that cash on hand isn’t a “barrier” for a sizeable chunk.


Now to what spork says...I could take it to a social/economic construct...and shoot holes through the false stance that wdw in particular is governed by a Laisse Faire, Intro to Econ supply and demand curve. It’s not - they have set and controlled their market through artificial means since day one...not operating the “free market” and therefore not explained away by the curve

But no, wasn’t throwing shade above except to highlight people are far more stupid than the naive believe.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

wuts uh bisnus skool?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree...

I’ve learned all of my Nobel grade economics knowledge on Disney forums from what I call “community college theorists”....the Econ 002 B+ Students.