Why is Disney trying so hard to dilute its brand?

[Phicinfan]

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. And I'm not talking about just the good ones. I'm referring to great ones. In my opinion, the last great, phenomenal, fantastic live action film Disney made was Curse of the Black Pearl. I haven't seen Into the Woods yet, so I can't comment on that.

Again, you're welcome to your opinion.

As are you, but personally I didn't like any of the PoC movies. Then again, I am still waiting for Johnny Depp to be able to really act also.

 

[Californian Elitist]

As are you, but personally I didn't like any of the PoC movies. Then again, I am still waiting for Johnny Depp to be able to really act also.

Well, that's you.

 

[Matt_Black]

I don't consider the films of outside companies, like Marvel and Touchstone, Disney films. I think you know the films I'm talking about and I'll say it again, Disney hasn't been great in that field in years.

They're not outside companies. Disney owns Marvel and founded Touchstone for the specific purpose of releasing more adult oriented live-action features.

 

[Californian Elitist]

They're not outside companies. Disney owns Marvel and founded Touchstone for the specific purpose of releasing more adult oriented live-action features.

Marvel is its own production company, and now Disney distributes the Marvel films. I'm referring to films that come from Walt Disney Productions, and that doesn't include Marvel films, which come from Marvel productions.

 

[DVCOwner]

I don't consider the films of outside companies, like Marvel and Touchstone, Disney films. I think you know the films I'm talking about and I'll say it again, Disney hasn't been great in that field in years.

If I remember correctly, touchstone was a company Disney formed to release more adult films. This was not an outside company purchased by Disney.

 

[Matt_Black]

Marvel is its own production company, and now Disney distributes the Marvel films. I'm referring to films that come from Walt Disney Productions, and that doesn't include Marvel films, which come from Marvel productions.

Yes, but many aren't going to make that distinction. They know Disney owns Marvel, and they see the castle logo at the front of the film, so to many casual filmgoers, those films are Disney films for all intents and purposes, not unlike how many see Pixar are films as being indistinguishable, despite the fact that Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios are two separate entities.

 

[SnarkyMonkey]

If you look at my first post, I don't go see them. It's not them existing that bothers me, It's the mindset that Disney has with them. Why so many? Why for a 3rd time on some of them?

Because people like them and go see them and they make money? It's not complex.

I don't consider the films of outside companies, like Marvel and Touchstone, Disney films. I think you know the films I'm talking about and I'll say it again, Disney hasn't been great in that field in years.

It doesn't matter if you consider them to be Disney films or not. They are.

 

[erasure fan1]

Because people like them and go see them and make money? It's not complex.

You are right, it's not complex, thats why Disney does it, that is the point. Some of us would rather see them do more than rehash and not settle on it's not complex. I also said in my first post they make money so Disney does it. My whole point is I think Disney is better than that and doesn't have to do it.

 

[Matt_Black]

The Maltese Falcon? Remake. The Man Who Knew Too Much? Remake. His Girl Friday? Remake. A Fistful of Dollars? The Magnificent Seven? Remakes. Hollywood in general loves to go back to the same well, and some times they do it REALLY well.

 

[SnarkyMonkey]

You are right, it's not complex, thats why Disney does it, that is the point. Some of us would rather see them do more than rehash and not settle on it's not complex. I also said in my first post they make money so Disney does it. My whole point is I think Disney is better than that and doesn't have to do it.

You missed the part where I said "Because people like them". You might not but people do. So why should they not make them for people like them/me?

 

[Tony Perkis]

so I am confused, are you going back to movies such as Ben Knobs and Mary Poppins, Black Hole?

Three musketeers was I thought a great live action version.

Into the Woods was phenominal, As was Maleficent. Princess Diaries 1 and 2 were very good. 101 Dalmations were pretty good as well. and so on....

@raven24's opinion pretty much lines up directly with mine. The last great live action film was probably the first Pirates of the Caribbean film, though I'd make a strong argument for The Muppets as well.

Let's look at the list of live action films released under the Walt Disney Pictures banner from 2000 and on:

-Into the Woods - a diluted product that would have been far better served as a PG-13 adult film, not a kid friendly musical
-Alexander - awful and holds nearly zero relevance to the classic children's book
-Malificent - CGI overload and half-baked story
-Million Dollar Arm - Disney's sports movie of the year. Nothing special. Jon Hamm keeps it from being a complete bore
-Muppets Most Wanted - funny and has some good songs, but underwhelming compared to the Segel reboot
-Saving Mr. Banks - a film that plays revisionist history and lies about the making of Mary Poppins. Not particularly great, very over promoted by Disney for Oscar consideration
-The Lone Ranger - lol
-Oz - a slightly better version of Alice in Wonderland, which was generally awful
-Timothy Green - does anyone remember this film?
-John Carter - lol x2
-Muppets - great, namely due to Segel's involvement and love for the property
-Pirates 4 - ugh
-Prom - why?
-Tron: Legacy - a good Daft Punk album.
-Secretariat - another feel good Disney sports movie. Nothing special.
-The Sorcerer's Apprentice - Nic Cage movie.
-Prince of Persia - bad version of the games, why did Disney make a film adaptation of a non-property rated T game series?
-Alice in Wonderland - holy god this was terrible
-Old Dogs - awful
-Hannah Montana - never watching this
-Race to Witch Mountain - played on FX when nobody is watching. mostly bad.
-Bedtime Stories - Adam Sandler movie. Guaranteed bad. At least better than Grown Ups.
-High School Musical 3 - never watching this
-Beverly Hills Chihuahua - seriously?
-Narnia 2 - because nobody knows the Narnia stories outside of the first one
-College Road Trip - terrible sequel to the original. Needed more Sean William Scott.
-National Treasure 2 - entertaining trash
-Enchanted - generally clever and well done, but mostly Forgotten (namely due to Disney not wanting to pay Amy Adams for her continued presence as a princess)
-The Game Plan - this was during The Rock's mediocre kid movie phase, right?
-Underdog - nobody remembers this movie
-Bridge to Terebithia - book was better
-Pirates 3 - about 3 hours too long
-Santa Claus 3 - about 12 years too late
-Pirates 2 - about 2 hours too long
-Invincible - go Cowboys
-The gy Dog - Tim Allen should just do Toy Story and Galaxy Quest movies from now on
-Eight Below - a less sad Marley and Me
-Glory Road - typical Disney sports movie. another one.
-Narnia 1 - because Jesus
-The Greatest Game Ever Played - another Disney sports movie?
-Sky High - actually a pretty good family movie. Namely for Bruce Campbell and the Kids in the Hall reunion.
-Herbie - no
-Ice Princess - the hell is ice princess?
-The Pacifier - kill me
-National Treasure - entertaining trash
-Princess Diaries 2 - because we were all curious how this story would continue
-Around the World in 80 Days - cameo: the movie
-Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen - never watching this movie. looks like a bad Mean Girls.
-Miracle - the only great Disney sports movie. Namely due to the great recreation of the Miracle on Ice and the powerhouse Kurt Russell performance
-Young Black Stallion - never realized this was a movie.
-Haunted Mansion - embarrassing
-Freaky Friday - cool. another remake.
-Pirates 1 - awesome.
-Lizza Maguire Movie - cheap Disney channel cash in
-Holes - nothing great, but a good adaptation of a great book
-Santa Claus 2 - why not 10 years after the first?
-Tuck Everlasting - I forgot what this was
-The Country Bears - walken
-The Rookie - typical Disney sports movie. feel good family whatever.
-Snow Dogs - give your Oscar back, Cuba Gooding Jr.
-Max Keeble - what?
-Princess Diaries 1 - decent family friendly comedy. pretty much alienates the male audience completely.
-102 Dalmations - because money is more powerful than a logical continuation of this story
-Remember the Titans - cliches: the movie. solid enough, though.
-Disney's The Kid - I prefer Die Hard

I count three arguably great movies since 2000. Not a great track record.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Yes, but many aren't going to make that distinction. They know Disney owns Marvel, and they see the castle logo at the front of the film, so to many casual filmgoers, those films are Disney films for all intents and purposes, not unlike how many see Pixar are films as being indistinguishable, despite the fact that Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios are two separate entities.

The castle logo is not played in front of Marvel Studios films.

 

[Matt_Black]

I count three arguably great movies since 2000. Not a great track record.

Let's be honest- after Walt died, the number of good live-action films dropped dramatically. Certainly, there were good films, but then you had a lot of forgettable films, like The Boatniks, Condorman, The Barefoot Executive, The Devil & Max Devlin (insert topical Bill Cosby joke here), etc.

Also, you forgot the sequel to Beverly Hills Chihuahua.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Also, you forgot the sequel to Beverly Hills Chihuahua.

I can only be so lucky.

 

[Californian Elitist]

@raven24's opinion pretty much lines up directly with mine. The last great live action film was probably the first Pirates of the Caribbean film, though I'd make a strong argument for The Muppets as well.

Let's look at the list of live action films released under the Walt Disney Pictures banner from 2000 and on:

-Into the Woods - a diluted product that would have been far better served as a PG-13 adult film, not a kid friendly musical
-Alexander - awful and holds nearly zero relevance to the classic children's book
-Malificent - CGI overload and half-baked story
-Million Dollar Arm - Disney's sports movie of the year. Nothing special. Jon Hamm keeps it from being a complete bore
-Muppets Most Wanted - funny and has some good songs, but underwhelming compared to the Segel reboot
-Saving Mr. Banks - a film that plays revisionist history and lies about the making of Mary Poppins. Not particularly great, very over promoted by Disney for Oscar consideration
-The Lone Ranger - lol
-Oz - a slightly better version of Alice in Wonderland, which was generally awful
-Timothy Green - does anyone remember this film?
-John Carter - lol x2
-Muppets - great, namely due to Segel's involvement and love for the property
-Pirates 4 - ugh
-Prom - why?
-Tron: Legacy - a good Daft Punk album.
-Secretariat - another feel good Disney sports movie. Nothing special.
-The Sorcerer's Apprentice - Nic Cage movie.
-Prince of Persia - bad version of the games, why did Disney make a film adaptation of a non-property rated T game series?
-Alice in Wonderland - holy god this was terrible
-Old Dogs - awful
-Hannah Montana - never watching this
-Race to Witch Mountain - played on FX when nobody is watching. mostly bad.
-Bedtime Stories - Adam Sandler movie. Guaranteed bad. At least better than Grown Ups.
-High School Musical 3 - never watching this
-Beverly Hills Chihuahua - seriously?
-Narnia 2 - because nobody knows the Narnia stories outside of the first one
-College Road Trip - terrible sequel to the original. Needed more Sean William Scott.
-National Treasure 2 - entertaining trash
-Enchanted - generally clever and well done, but mostly Forgotten (namely due to Disney not wanting to pay Amy Adams for her continued presence as a princess)
-The Game Plan - this was during The Rock's mediocre kid movie phase, right?
-Underdog - nobody remembers this movie
-Bridge to Terebithia - book was better
-Pirates 3 - about 3 hours too long
-Santa Claus 3 - about 12 years too late
-Pirates 2 - about 2 hours too long
-Invincible - go Cowboys
-The ****gy Dog - Tim Allen should just do Toy Story and Galaxy Quest movies from now on
-Eight Below - a less sad Marley and Me
-Glory Road - typical Disney sports movie. another one.
-Narnia 1 - because Jesus
-The Greatest Game Ever Played - another Disney sports movie?
-Sky High - actually a pretty good family movie. Namely for Bruce Campbell and the Kids in the Hall reunion.
-Herbie - no
-Ice Princess - the hell is ice princess?
-The Pacifier - kill me
-National Treasure - entertaining trash
-Princess Diaries 2 - because we were all curious how this story would continue
-Around the World in 80 Days - cameo: the movie
-Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen - never watching this movie. looks like a bad Mean Girls.
-Miracle - the only great Disney sports movie. Namely due to the great recreation of the Miracle on Ice and the powerhouse Kurt Russell performance
-Young Black Stallion - never realized this was a movie.
-Haunted Mansion - embarrassing
-Freaky Friday - cool. another remake.
-Pirates 1 - awesome.
-Lizza Maguire Movie - cheap Disney channel cash in
-Holes - nothing great, but a good adaptation of a great book
-Santa Claus 2 - why not 10 years after the first?
-Tuck Everlasting - I forgot what this was
-The Country Bears - walken
-The Rookie - typical Disney sports movie. feel good family whatever.
-Snow Dogs - give your Oscar back, Cuba Gooding Jr.
-Max Keeble - what?
-Princess Diaries 1 - decent family friendly comedy. pretty much alienates the male audience completely.
-102 Dalmations - because money is more powerful than a logical continuation of this story
-Remember the Titans - cliches: the movie. solid enough, though.
-Disney's The Kid - I prefer Die Hard

I count three arguably great movies since 2000. Not a great track record.

Thank you. I agree with pretty much everything you said. Too many of the movies you mentioned were beyond horrible. I don't even recognize some of the titles brought up.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Let's be honest- after Walt died, the number of good live-action films dropped dramatically. Certainly, there were good films, but then you had a lot of forgettable films, like The Boatniks, Condorman, The Barefoot Executive, The Devil & Max Devlin (insert topical Bill Cosby joke here), etc.

Also, you forgot the sequel to Beverly Hills Chihuahua.

Wait, are you talking about from Disney or within Hollywood in general?

 

[Matt_Black]

Wait, are you talking about from Disney or within Hollywood in general?

I'm talking about Disney specifically. I was looking at the list, and there's a bunch of films I'd never heard of- Hot Lead & Cold Feet, The Biscuit Eater, The Castaway Cowboy, The Last Flight of Noah's Ark (there is no way that movie can be as awesome as what I'm picturing in my head, with Noah and all the animals flying around in space fighting aliens), etc.

 

[Tony Perkis]

I'm talking about Disney specifically. I was looking at the list, and there's a bunch of films I'd never heard of- Hot Lead & Cold Feet, The Biscuit Eater, The Castaway Cowboy, The Last Flight of Noah's Ark (there is no way that movie can be as awesome as what I'm picturing in my head, with Noah and all the animals flying around in space fighting aliens), etc.

Gotcha.

Bad and forgettable films are expected from any major Hollywood studio. Heck, most of them make money.

But it's staggering just how few great live action films Disney had produced in the past 15+ years. Most studios are able to get into the Oscar discussion every year, but Disney barely cracks the conversation outside of Animated Film.

They've gone Oscar bait the past two years in Saving Mr. Banks and Into the Woods, and both were met with a less than enthusiastic "Good, not great" response. There's generally no creative risk taking in Disney; just overbearing reactions to turn most films into franchises.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'm sick of the sports movies. There's yet another one coming out soon.

 

[Matt_Black]

Gotcha.

Bad and forgettable films are expected from any major Hollywood studio. Heck, most of them make money.

But it's staggering just how few great live action films Disney had produced in the past 15+ years. Most studios are able to get into the Oscar discussion every year, but Disney barely cracks the conversation outside of Animated Film.

They've gone Oscar bait the past two years in Saving Mr. Banks and Into the Woods, and both were met with a less than enthusiastic "Good, not great" response. There's generally no creative risk taking in Disney; just overbearing reactions to turn most films into franchises.

Again, looking over the past 40 or so years, that's not terribly different. They crank out easy live action films that aren't too complex from a storytelling standpoint and hope they make money. The only difference now is that they seem to lose common sense when budgeting some of these more and more often, which is how we got a western that cost a QUARTER OF A BILLION dollars.