Why DVC? A few questions on value and what you get for the money?

[M.T. LOTT]

Newbie to all of this, I have a couple questions. We are a family of 5 Children 17 10 and 6.All of which are Disney fanatics. We go to Disney every year for 3-7 night stays depending on the year. My issue is I don't see the value in certain resorts. Typically we stay at a moderate like Caribbean beach or Port Orleans as they accommodate 5 for a minimal fee. Here is where I get confused:

-DVC shows the rate as 19-22 points for Moderate resorts for the time of year we go. Judging by the point system it is not much of a discount, when you factor in the annual service rate it is not a deal at all?

- We would like to stay in a deluxe resort but can not justify or really afford the extra cost of the rack rate (we are Park junkies)

- What about dining and Park tickets, how do meal plans work with DVC?? What are the extra benefits others then accommodations?

 

[lostpro9het]

Newbie to all of this, I have a couple questions. We are a family of 5 Children 17 10 and 6.All of which are Disney fanatics. We go to Disney every year for 3-7 night stays depending on the year. My issue is I don't see the value in certain resorts. Typically we stay at a moderate like Caribbean beach or Port Orleans as they accommodate 5 for a minimal fee. Here is where I get confused:

-DVC shows the rate as 19-22 points for Moderate resorts for the time of year we go. Judging by the point system it is not much of a discount, when you factor in the annual service rate it is not a deal at all?

- We would like to stay in a deluxe resort but can not justify or really afford the extra cost of the rack rate (we are Park junkies)

- What about dining and Park tickets, how do meal plans work with DVC?? What are the extra benefits others then accommodations?

Here is an excellent resource to read over:

https://dvcinfo.com/

 

[EOD K9]

If all you ever do/want to stay in moderates, DVC is not for you. DVC gets you into the Deluxe Resorts. Using points for the moderates is not a good exchange. SSR can be 12-19 points a night for say a studio depending on when you go. We cannot stress enough that if mods are your thing, don't by DVC.
If you want to go Deluxe, then DVC points make sense. You can buy around 200 points and get a one bedroom villa for a week. Although, since you didn't specify when you go or your vacation habits, it is tough to offer an opinion.
You can purchase a TiW card or purchase a meal plan without the seasonal rates I believe. DVC also offers a cheaper than rack rate at some DVC hotels for cash. You will also get certain discounts on food in various restaurants. DVC members also get a fairly good discount on APs. However, these perks can be rescinded at any time. Don't buy in just for the perks.
You can also bank points (from a previous year) and borrow from the one ahead. If you bought 150 points ,and banked all of them one year (2015), waited til the next, and borrowed the following (2017), you could have 450 points in 2016 for a huge vacation. That being said, you couldn't use points again until your next allotment in 2018.
I am sure there are people on here who could chime in with a better explanation. If you just want accommodations then resale may be the way to go. Good luck.

 

[DisneyFans4Life]

If all you ever do/want to stay in moderates, DVC is not for you. DVC gets you into the Deluxe Resorts. Using points for the moderates is not a good exchange. SSR can be 12-19 points a night for say a studio depending on when you go. We cannot stress enough that if mods are your thing, don't by DVC.
If you want to go Deluxe, then DVC points make sense. You can buy around 200 points and get a one bedroom villa for a week. Although, since you didn't specify when you go or your vacation habits, it is tough to offer an opinion.
You can purchase a TiW card or purchase a meal plan without the seasonal rates I believe. DVC also offers a cheaper than rack rate at some DVC hotels for cash. You will also get certain discounts on food in various restaurants. DVC members also get a fairly good discount on APs. However, these perks can be rescinded at any time. Don't buy in just for the perks.
You can also bank points (from a previous year) and borrow from the one ahead. If you bought 150 points ,and banked all of them one year (2015), waited til the next, and borrowed the following (2017), you could have 450 points in 2016 for a huge vacation. That being said, you couldn't use points again until your next allotment in 2018.
I am sure there are people on here who could chime in with a better explanation. If you just want accommodations then resale may be the way to go. Good luck.

This ^^

We looked at buying in to DVC, but it just didn't make sense to us as we enjoy the moderates and don't really spend much time at the hotel anyway. And in all honesty...you only need to make an ADR to eat at a deluxe or tell the guard that you're hanging by the pool for a little bit if you were bored with your own hotel. Also, I found it didn't make sense to buy in unless you can pay the full amount ahead of time...otherwise they charge something like 10% interest, and that's with perfect credit.

If you guys spend most of your time in the parks and not at the resort...I couldn't see DVC being a value for you.

 

[M.T. LOTT]

Thanks for the information,

We would like to stay at a deluxe resort but with the current rack rates it is very difficult. As for time of year
typically it is X-mas or the just after new years and or Mid March. From a value stand point would it not make more sense to be flexible in your dates and look for Disney offers? From what I gather DVC is strictly a room upgrade setup?

 

[Phonedave]

Thanks for the information,

We would like to stay at a deluxe resort but with the current rack rates it is very difficult. As for time of year
typically it is X-mas or the just after new years and or Mid March. From a value stand point would it not make more sense to be flexible in your dates and look for Disney offers? From what I gather DVC is strictly a room upgrade setup?

It is a tough call for you. I used to be the "room is a room is a room" type - and DVC was not for me. Then my tastes changed, an now I really aprpeciate the deluxe resorts. Same thing goes for when we travel to places other than WDW - we like to stay in the nicer rooms.

Point 1 - DVC savings can only be compared to deluxe resort savings. If you like moderates (or values) and really only have a desire to stay in moderates (or values) then DVC is not for you.

Having said that I like to stay in deluxe resorts - I really don't care WHICH deluxe resort I stay in. Most of the time you can find some sort of DVC room available (at least a studio in SSR) on fairly short notice - except during very busy times of the year. Also, depending on when you are looking, certain other times may also be very busy for particular resorts (such as Epcot area resorts during Food and Wine)

Point 2 - WIth DVC you might have to plan your vacation at 11 months or, or at least 7 months out, if you want to stay in anything other than a studio at SSR. It looks like you like to travel with a large group at busy times. For DVC to work with you, you really need to buy where you want to stay, and book it at 11 months out.

Keep in mind that DVC is a contract for a room - thats it. All the other perks that people get - AP discounts, food discounts, merch discounts, member lounges in EPCOT, etc can change at any time. (and they have).

Point 3 - Don't look at perks when consdering DVC. Look only at the cost compared to the cost of a comparable room. Perks are just that, a perk, not a criteria to make a decision on. Do keep in mind though that DVC contracts have held their value well. I bought my SSR contract directly from Disney for about $16,000. I could sell it for about $14,000 today - 9 years later. Not that I plan to, but it is nice to know that if necesary, I can recoup some of the costs.

-dave

 

[M.T. LOTT]

This is great information, but the major factor that seems to be over looked is the annual service fees. approx $1500 per year and only going up.
I just booked Caribbean Beach for 5 ppl 7 days with basic park tickets (5 days) and DDP for Jan 1-7 for $4800. I can't see how it is beneficial to be a DVC memeber when you look at the extraneous costs. On top of that I would need to buy passes for the 5 of us each year at $550 per person plus the yearly service cost I'm close to total vacation cost of $4800 when paying cash? Yes I would get deluxe rooms but at 18k up front to be "locked in" it's a decision made on wants not value.

 

[EOD K9]

As some have said, it is a prepaid room. I've paid off both of my contracts and have a place to stay pre and post cruise. If the family and i decide to spend a week there, we can. We can buy passes for the days we need and not need to worry about anything else. The food perks are nice when we get them, but they are perks and can be pulled at will. Just recently, I have rented out some points that I don't need. That pretty much has helped me recoup my member fees and help finance my next cruise. @M.T. LOTT If DVC isnt right for you, it isn't right. If you need to find a lot of ways to justify it, save your money and vacation in the way you are most comfortable.

 

[dreamfinder]

This is great information, but the major factor that seems to be over looked is the annual service fees. approx $1500 per year and only going up.
I just booked Caribbean Beach for 5 ppl 7 days with basic park tickets (5 days) and DDP for Jan 1-7 for $4800. I can't see how it is beneficial to be a DVC memeber when you look at the extraneous costs. On top of that I would need to buy passes for the 5 of us each year at $550 per person plus the yearly service cost I'm close to total vacation cost of $4800 when paying cash? Yes I would get deluxe rooms but at 18k up front to be "locked in" it's a decision made on wants not value.

You really need to be attempting to do a apples to apples comparison here. A stay in a standard view Poly studio for that same time frame would only require 125 points, and is currently $6.09 per point for dues, so only $761.25, half the $1500 you were saying. And you can stay at other resorts for less points during that same time. Yes, a 1BR or 2BR villa would take more points and cost more in dues, but you are comparing it to a single room at CBR. If you make the bump to a 1BR then you would really need to be price comparing to 2 rooms at CBR, or a suite at AoA to be completely fair if you are just looking at space for your party. And if you are only planning on that 1 week trip, why would you buy an AP? To be an equal comparison, just add in the same ticket prices as you are currently paying. Or conversely, you would plan your trips over two years so that they overlap, and then you split the cost of the AP between the two.

I'd suggest just look at the cost of lodging. You would need to buy park tickets either way, and the base cost of the dining plan (if you want it) would be the same either way. Standard view at CBR for those dates comes up at $1,282 ish, so about $500 more than just the cost of the dues. Now admittedly buying direct at Poly would take you 42.75 years to break even (125 points at $171=$21,375, saving $500 a year would be $21,375/$500 = 42.75) if you would only stay at CBR so yeah, it may not make sense for your scenario. But if you were to buy resale your numbers would be vastly different. I just took a quick glance, and I see Poly points for $140-150, knocking 5+ years off the breakeven, and even more if you look at one of the older resorts that is selling around $90-100.

Now none of those quick numbers include things like inflation, rack rate increases, potential room discounts etc, but are there just to serve as a quick counterpoint to your $1500 number. DVC definitely isn't for everyone, but I broke even a year or two ago and still have another 20+ years of deluxe accommodations for $60-70 a night (dues only), which is well below the current rate for a value resort.

 

[M.T. LOTT]

Dreamfinder, I am under the impression that tickets are discounted if you buy in bulk during your stay. Don't quote me but I think with a 7 day stay the tickets work out to close to half of what it would cost at the gate per day. I can't get this deal if I'm off property correct? As for rooms, with a party of 5 I would need to stay in a one bedroom +. Resorts will not allow you to rent a single room unless it is at Caribbean or Port Orleans as they are larger. I think it is a fire safety issue. As for rack rates comparing apples to apples you really can't rooms have been inflated over the last 5-10 years for the reason of making DVC look more attractive. Same holds true for dining and the DDP. I would be curious to know at the deluxe resorts what the rack rate vs DVC usage is. I just can't see too many people forking $500-$900 a night for a room alone. I'm enjoying the debate and appreciate the insight here. I would really like DVC to work but I'm leaning away from it at this point. I think your last point might be the key, once you get to break even it is vastly a different story. It just seems like a long stretch to get there!

 

[dreamfinder]

Dreamfinder, I am under the impression that tickets are discounted if you buy in bulk during your stay. Don't quote me but I think with a 7 day stay the tickets work out to close to half of what it would cost at the gate per day. I can't get this deal if I'm off property correct? As for rooms, with a party of 5 I would need to stay in a one bedroom +. Resorts will not allow you to rent a single room unless it is at Caribbean or Port Orleans as they are larger. I think it is a fire safety issue. As for rack rates comparing apples to apples you really can't rooms have been inflated over the last 5-10 years for the reason of making DVC look more attractive. Same holds true for dining and the DDP. I would be curious to know at the deluxe resorts what the rack rate vs DVC usage is. I just can't see too many people forking $500-$900 a night for a room alone. I'm enjoying the debate and appreciate the insight here. I would really like DVC to work but I'm leaning away from it at this point. I think your last point might be the key, once you get to break even it is vastly a different story. It just seems like a long stretch to get there!

Tickets are completely separate from anything else. Yes, there the cost per day goes down significantly as you buy go from a 1 day to a 10 day, but doesn't matter if you stay on property, own DVC, or stay at the Hilton down the road, you can buy tickets from WDW for the same price. And you can save even more from buying from a 3rd party reseller like Undercover Tourist (who really doesn't care where you stay).

Some of the DVC studios do handle 5 people. The Poly for instance (what I priced out) does allow 5, the 5th sleeps on a pull down trundle type bed under the TV. And as I think I said in one of your other posts, you will shortly be kicked out of a CBR room anyways, if for nothing other than a space issue as I can't see that 5th bed being comfortable for most people past 10 or so. So you would need to start looking at AoA/All Star suite or FW cabin pricing shortly anyway.

I agree that DVC rack rates are heavily inflated to make DVC ownership seem more appealing, but don't think that the room rates for the other resorts have been inflated for DVC. For instance Port Orleans standard view room cost $99 for NYE in 1991 (Going off a Chicago Tribune article saying prices were $79-99), $184 for NYE in 2005, cost $299 for NYE in 2016. DVC went from $51 in 1991, to $78 in 2005, to $171 in 2016. So resort went up 300%, while DVC went up 335% per (per point, point costs at the resort haven't changed)

As for resort rack vs DVC, I think @ParentsOf4 may have run some numbers about stuff like this at one point, but WDW still routinely is like 80% occupied. So while DVC is definitely taking some of the people who normally stay at moderate but might make the jump to deluxe, as of yet they aren't hurting too badly.

If you don't need any of the benefits from buying direct, and can pay cash for resale, you can breakeven in 7-10 years usually. But you need to be committed to Disney. But your gut seems to be saying no, no, no, and some times the gut is right.

 

[Phonedave]

This is great information, but the major factor that seems to be over looked is the annual service fees. approx $1500 per year and only going up.
I just booked Caribbean Beach for 5 ppl 7 days with basic park tickets (5 days) and DDP for Jan 1-7 for $4800. I can't see how it is beneficial to be a DVC memeber when you look at the extraneous costs. On top of that I would need to buy passes for the 5 of us each year at $550 per person plus the yearly service cost I'm close to total vacation cost of $4800 when paying cash? Yes I would get deluxe rooms but at 18k up front to be "locked in" it's a decision made on wants not value.

As others have said, you need to look at rack rates. The best way is to look at rates for a "blended" resort - one that has part DVC and part cash rooms - AKL, WL, Poly, or GF for example. Look at what it would cost you to book a straight cash room then look at what a similar room would be using points, and then look at the dues per point to come up with a sevice fee equivalent. That gives you a direct yearly comparison. Let's say for arguments sake, that teh DVC room would be $1000 cheaper. Now you can look at your initial buy in of say $15,000. Simple math with no interest considerations, inflation, opportunity cost, etc will say that you will make back that $15,000 outlay in 15 years - meaning that after 15 years the cost of the DVC roomis the same as the cost of the cash room. After that point you are saving $1,000 a year. Now of course interest and those other factors do play a role, so the actual break even point is a bit further out - there are dozens of spreadsheets out there that people have made in order to calculate the break even date. Park admission, dining, etc are the same regardless of what method you are using to book your room. (Actualy, with DVC you get discounts that could make it cheaper - but do not rely on those in your analysis)

One other thing that many people see to not understand is how the annual dues work. The dues are not a cash grab by Disney. By law (Florida timeshare law) the dues can only cover the operating costs of the timeshare - no more. The dues cover things such as housekeeping, front desk, lifeguards, bell services, landscaping, capital repairs, DVC's share of DME, Disney busses, watercraft, etc. With DVC you get what you pay for - that is why you dont get housekeeping every day with DVC - it costs more to do so, and would make the dues go up. If somone wants more housekeeping, they pay for it. That is why they do member surveys - you want more poolside entertainment - then your dues go up. They find out that members dont want something that is being offered, they remove it and save the dues money.

-dave

 

[M.T. LOTT]

Some of the DVC studios do handle 5 people. The Poly for instance (what I priced out) does allow 5, the 5th sleeps on a pull down trundle type bed under the TV. And as I think I said in one of your other posts, you will shortly be kicked out of a CBR room anyways, if for nothing other than a space issue as I can't see that 5th bed being comfortable for most people past 10 or so. So you would need to start looking at AoA/All Star suite or FW cabin pricing shortly anyway.

I agree that DVC rack rates are heavily inflated to make DVC ownership seem more appealing, but don't think that the room rates for the other resorts have been inflated for DVC. For instance Port Orleans standard view room cost $99 for NYE in 1991 (Going off a Chicago Tribune article saying prices were $79-99), $184 for NYE in 2005, cost $299 for NYE in 2016. DVC went from $51 in 1991, to $78 in 2005, to $171 in 2016. So resort went up 300%, while DVC went up 335% per (per point, point costs at the resort haven't changed)

I thought about your first point here and it seems 5 ppl 3 adults and two children (hard to call an 18 yr old and adult when talking to them )
can still rent a std room in the moderate resorts. There is a slight up charge for the adult in dining and tickets.

As for the second point room rates tickets etc have sky rocketed most of that has something to do with North Americans being comfortable with buying everything on credit but that's a debate for another day. I really think moderate rates have jumped due to deluxe resorts being pushed higher and higher. It is now forcing the former cash paying Deluxe customer into moderates as there really is no other choice other then long term DVC investment.

I will say I did not realize I could buy 1-10 day tickets as well as dining for that rate if I was not staying on property. I might look at renting points to try deluxe? Do you think it is possible get a deluxe room on points for approx $200-220 a night in early Jan?

 

[dreamfinder]

I will say I did not realize I could buy 1-10 day tickets as well as dining for that rate if I was not staying on property. I might look at renting points to try deluxe? Do you think it is possible get a deluxe room on points for approx $200-220 a night in early Jan?

Just to clarify, dining plans are tied to a resort reservation while tickets aren't. To purchase the dining plan you need to be doing one of three things. 1) Booking a full package from WDW (room, ticket, dining) 2) Be an AP holder 3) Be staying at a DVC resort on points
If you rent points, then technically you would qualify for 3, so you could do dining. With a rental though, the owner making the booking for you would need to add that request to your reservation (one of the caveats of renting). Trying checking out some of the rental threads for more details.

David's has a cost calculator here -> http://www.dvcrequest.com/cost-calculator.asp for renting points from them. Other brokers should be fairly close, but renting direct from an owner could save more over that. $220 for your party of 5 may be doable, but you may be closer to $250-275 depending on selection. Some of it may depend if you are trying to rent in Jan of 2017, or planning out for Jan 2018, and the exact dates. Jan 2017 those dates include the start of Marathon weekend, so selection may be limited at this point, with the cheaper ones potentially being full those nights.

 

[Phonedave]

Just a comment about dining plans. I have NEVER found them worth it. Granted, for some people they are, for my eating style, they are not(look at them with a critical eye as to what you really would have eaten, if you were not trying to utilize credits to the max).

However, once I became DVC, and started using rooms that had a kitchenette (Studio) or full kitchen (1BR and higher) I REALLY found the plans useless. It's not a being cheap thing, it's an ease thing. WIth 3 kids in the room, it is a lot easier to have bagels, cerial, toast, etc - heck even eggs and bacon - in the room. Somone is cooking, somone is showering, someone is getting the lazy child out of bed, somone is getting dressed, all at the same time. We get ready, eat, and are on the bus to a park in the same amount of time it used to take us to just get down to the quick service area.

I also tend to get up way before anybody else. Being able to make coffee, sit on the balcony, and watch the day start is well worth it for me.

-dave

 

[Lynne M]

DVC is about the DVC resorts; it's about the villas. That's what you get. You're buying the right to stay at DVC resorts with your points, subject to availability, for the duration of your contract. EVERYTHING else, whether it's the ability to stay in moderate resorts, or get a discounted AP, or to use your points for a DCL cruise, is not part of your contract, is offered at the whim of Disney's various subsidiaries, and is subject to change or termination.

So, the value is in getting villas at significant savings, compared to the cash reservation rate for those same villas. DVC is for people who want villa-style accommodations.

If you're not interested in the villas, DVC probably won't be a good fit for you.

By the way, the reason the points for moderates are so high are that they're not part of DVC. You're doing an exchange out of DVC's timeshare system when you use points for non-DVC resorts, so the value's not really there.

 

[GoofGoof]

Just a comment about dining plans. I have NEVER found them worth it. Granted, for some people they are, for my eating style, they are not(look at them with a critical eye as to what you really would have eaten, if you were not trying to utilize credits to the max).

However, once I became DVC, and started using rooms that had a kitchenette (Studio) or full kitchen (1BR and higher) I REALLY found the plans useless. It's not a being cheap thing, it's an ease thing. WIth 3 kids in the room, it is a lot easier to have bagels, cerial, toast, etc - heck even eggs and bacon - in the room. Somone is cooking, somone is showering, someone is getting the lazy child out of bed, somone is getting dressed, all at the same time. We get ready, eat, and are on the bus to a park in the same amount of time it used to take us to just get down to the quick service area.

I also tend to get up way before anybody else. Being able to make coffee, sit on the balcony, and watch the day start is well worth it for me.

-dave

For me, the only thing that beats a cup of coffee on the balcony each morning is a cold beer there to end the night. Disney is a fast paced vacation but it's great to bookend the day with 2 relaxing, peaceful moments.

 

[Seanual757]

As others have said you really need to see how many times a year and how long you will be staying. For our family of 6 since we are local and already stay 3-4 times a year (14-17 nights a year) it only made sense. Our trip this past spring @ VGF out of pocket would have cost us just over $15k for the 2 rooms that is half the cost of our VGF DVC purchase. The previous 2 years of stays plus our stays this year cost just as much as our 1st DVC contract. We have now paid that off, and purchased a second at Poly we will pay that off next year. So for us the next 48 years and 50 years we have a place to stay and just pay our annual dues. So it really comes down to how many days you stay, size of room, and which resorts you prefer. It’s nice to go and not have a bill except if you charge to your MB.

Good luck

 

[Phonedave]

For me, the only thing that beats a cup of coffee on the balcony each morning is a cold beer there to end the night. Disney is a fast paced vacation but it's great to bookend the day with 2 relaxing, peaceful moments.

We always pack the coffee we like and order beer and wine from garden grocer.

Waking up to good coffee (although WDW's has become better) at your own pace and winding down in your own room with a beverage at night is one of the DVC "perks"

-dave

 

[GoofGoof]

We always pack the coffee we like and order beer and wine from garden grocer.

Waking up to good coffee (although WDW's has become better) at your own pace and winding down in your own room with a beverage at night is one of the DVC "perks"

-dave

We are in the same boat. I usually bring coffee and have the beer delivered. One trip we did splurge and buy the bag of ground Kona coffee from the Poly. It was good but excessively expensive.