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Why does it take 3 years to build a ride?

spock8113

Well-Known Member
I would venture a guess and say Disney is not solely exclusive to high safety standards.
It was and continues to be OSHA (Federal Agency) who lay down the law on safety but Disney contractors who have to follow the rules for their own liabilty's sake.
And environmentally, Disney's original wastewater treatment plant had violated a few rules and Florida DEP came down on them.
I believe it was redesigned and rebuilt-check GoogleEarth, it's just to the south and west of the old Richard Petty Race Track.

So, yeah, they've been "environmentally concerned" since then.

And lost not forget RDIC - Reedy Creek Improvement District https://www.rcid.org/
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Again, proper planning and staffing can bring the project to completion in much less than 36 months within the limitations and externalities listed.
Absolutely, but that is typically not the reason why projects are spread out.

Complexity, labor, materials, etc are all still factors...even if you have crews working 24/7 a project will take X amount of time. The biggest reason Disney stretches out large projects is it spreading out a large expense looks better on the books when it is spread out over time.

Construction at a steady pace also tends to cost less as you are not paying overtime, completion bonuses, material premiums, etc. Given WDI's reputation for budget overruns, they need to save every dime they can.

Lastly, Disney has no real financial incentive to rush the construction of attractions as they don't really have the gigantic financial windfall something like a new resort would have and they are not hurting for attendance in the slightest.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Government.
Yep... most people have never had to deal with the multiple government agencies that have to sign off on various steps in a large construction project.... Worse still is you have no control over how fast those agencies will give you approval or send back requests for clarification, I've seen projects that make zero physical progress simply because the government agencies take the maximum amount of time they are allowed, to respond. I remember one where the agency had upto 180 days to respond, and if they didn't respond in 180 days you were allowed to assume that they didn't reject it... they never responded but the company had to wait 180 days.... Then of course you have to deal with getting inspections during construction that may or may not happen as quickly as you want but can hold up everything until they happen. If you didn't have the government involved you could probably build most everything in half the time it currently takes just because you would have eliminated a lot of sit back and wait time.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Oh absolutely.

Guardians will be closer to four years by the time it opens.


It’s just capex spread out over years to make the board happy...and to be able to pump it on ads and marketing and for bob to pump it in his trade speeches for years.

Not a complex scenario here. It’s like figuring out a scooby doo villain
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
New building, new ride system, new preshows, and since they're building mostly indoors... no rush. If you take everything that's greenlit for the next four years and then rush to get it all built next year, then what do you do the following year with nothing new opening? Then people will start to complain that Disney is stagnating again. Disney can't win here.

People claim that projects get spread out for accounting/stock reasons. To me, that doesn't make sense for the outdoor projects since you don't want to have your equipment and construction rotting in the elements... that can be a bigger cost than any savings from spreading things out. Also, with so many projects happening continually over the next few years, there already is a built-in spread-out of costs of construction as each project comes due. But, if there ever is a candidate for 'spreading it out', indoor construction is it.

And not every construction project is absurdly long....

View attachment 275435

The problem with this chart is it is entirely from the last 20 years - when construction equipment and methods are better and alllow for easier construction. Particularly computer aided design and fabrication.

That should make bigger and better easier...not lengthier.

What they did to build pirates, splash, the tower, really the entirety of Epcot, etc is the real benchmarks.

It’s not that they can’t do it - that is a misrepresentation - it’s that they choose not too. I’m not debating reasoning or merit...just acknowledging the existence of motive.
 
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CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Is it great again yet?

What an absolutely silly statement.

...mainly because disney runs it’s own government in reedy creek...and it’s florida where you do what you want anyway.
Don't let your political bias cloud your perception of reality.

Read about the costs and time associated with environmental impact studies. Government is absolutely the reason construction takes so long. You can argue "yes but those studies are worth it because they have a tangible positive impact on the environment," but denying that they also have negative consequences is ignorant.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Don't let your political bias cloud your perception of reality.

Read about the costs and time associated with environmental impact studies. Government is absolutely the reason construction takes so long. You can argue "yes but those studies are worth it because they have a tangible positive impact on the environment," but denying that they also have negative consequences is ignorant.

I’m and engineer, genius...dealing mostly with infrastructure and reclamation projects...

Don’t fool Yourself into thinking you know more than the talking picture panel tells you.

It’s not just what you have to do...it’s why...that was always the point.

Nobody likes dead bodies on amusement park rides. These are very complex mechanical and electrical systems. And people are inherently greedy and/or stupid.

Can you be “Captain Greece” from now on? Seriously?
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
It’s just capex spread out over years to make the board happy...and to be able to pump it on ads and marketing and for bob to pump it in his trade speeches for years.

Not a complex scenario here. It’s like figuring out a scooby doo villain
Not sure where you would find any logic in spreading out capex on a project over multiple years as a positive. In general you want to complete projects as fast as possible so they can start operating. Spreading out money over 4 years vs 1 doesn't change the amount of money you've spent unless we were living in a time of deflation and the last major time of that was during the great depression. Saying you are going to have a new ride in a part for 3 years before it opens doesn't bring in more visitors in fact it probably delays some as they push off their trip until the new ride actually opens.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Not sure where you would find any logic in spreading out capex on a project over multiple years as a positive. In general you want to complete projects as fast as possible so they can start operating. Spreading out money over 4 years vs 1 doesn't change the amount of money you've spent unless we were living in a time of deflation and the last major time of that was during the great depression. Saying you are going to have a new ride in a part for 3 years before it opens doesn't bring in more visitors in fact it probably delays some as they push off their trip until the new ride actually opens.

I’m not saying it makes sense...but it’s what they’ve been doing for a decade. Anyone that thinks “new fantasyland” or avatar took 4 or 6 years respectively to build - If they didn’t want it to be so - is nuts.

Epcot was built in 3 years...it was the largest private earth moving project in history to that point...before they started construction.

I think they like to say they’re building billion dollar things...but put them on lay away.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
I’m and engineer, genius...dealing mostly with infrastructure and reclamation projects...

Don’t fool Yourself into thinking you know more than the talking picture panel tells you.

It’s not just what you have to do...it’s why...that was always the point.

Nobody likes dead bodies on amusement park rides. These are very complex mechanical and electrical systems. And people are inherently greedy and/or stupid.

Can you be “Captain Greece” from now on? Seriously?
Actually he is right about the environmental impact studies. I worked a company that had to spend millions doing a second study because some environmentalist found some sort of beetle that was considered endangered. Lots of additional time spent trying to find a solution to avoid the beetle, delays in when construction could happen, extra precautions to avoid upsetting the beetles home... In other words serious delays and lots of additional money wasted to protect a beetle that is killed when you spray your law for insects which the government seems to have no problem with people doing on their own.

Are people greedy? Yes, because greed is good.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Not sure where you would find any logic in spreading out capex on a project over multiple years as a positive. In general you want to complete projects as fast as possible so they can start operating. Spreading out money over 4 years vs 1 doesn't change the amount of money you've spent unless we were living in a time of deflation and the last major time of that was during the great depression. Saying you are going to have a new ride in a part for 3 years before it opens doesn't bring in more visitors in fact it probably delays some as they push off their trip until the new ride actually opens.
Two main reasons Disney thinks this way...a lower CAPEX looks good to investors and individual attractions are not really like a store, restaurant or resort that have a very direct revenue stream.

Disney is also building with cash so paying interest from day one on a construction loan is not a factor likeso many other construction projects.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
I’m and engineer, genius...dealing mostly with infrastructure and reclamation projects...

Don’t fool Yourself into thinking you know more than the talking picture panel tells you.

It’s not just what you have to do...it’s why...that was always the point.

Nobody likes dead bodies on amusement park rides. These are very complex mechanical and electrical systems. And people are inherently greedy and/or stupid.

Can you be “Captain Greece” from now on? Seriously?
You're arguing with a point I never made. You're arguing that environmental impact studies are good. I never made a claim as to whether they're good or bad. All I said is that they add development time, which is categorically true.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
You're arguing with a point I never made. You're arguing that environmental impact studies are good. I never made a claim as to whether they're good or bad. All I said is that they add development time, which is categorically true.

Nope...I’m not arguing environmental impact studies at all...

I’m saying safeguards are necessary to combat the biggest construction danger: corner cutting due to greed.

Nobody is immune. Though the process is incredibly flawed - the principle behind is sound and has been proven over the course of the industrial era. Advanced society requires oversight...period.

Your one word “government” quip represents frosh year/gen ed mentality. Ironman would disapprove.

Why does it take so long?
“Government”

That’s just not true...ESPECIALLY in lake buena vista!! No where in the United States do they jump through less hoops. The mafia had a harder time getting permits in the Bronx in 1948 when they built the mayors house and then abducted his dog...

Though I give you a mulligan...as you don’t seem to be like that usually.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Actually he is right about the environmental impact studies. I worked a company that had to spend millions doing a second study because some environmentalist found some sort of beetle that was considered endangered. Lots of additional time spent trying to find a solution to avoid the beetle, delays in when construction could happen, extra precautions to avoid upsetting the beetles home... In other words serious delays and lots of additional money wasted to protect a beetle that is killed when you spray your law for insects which the government seems to have no problem with people doing on their own.

Are people greedy? Yes, because greed is good.

Environmental impact studies use marker species - such as the your beetle...to predict large disruption of the ecosphere...

It wasn’t just a “beetle”...

But that’s not what we are talking about here. WDW has to deal with water management...true...but that’s as much as a practical use to them for stability as it is about Cottonmouths and gators.

There are two different arguments.

WDW if left untouched till today would be an abandoned fertilizer farm and an EPA Superfund site (bet CL at GF wouldn’t like that, huh?)...but that’s beside the point:

If you say the terraforming on projects take a long time and that slows things down...that’s an argument. “Government slows it down”...isn’t at that site.
 

winstongator

Well-Known Member
I agree. Doesn't it take Disney half that time to build other things? Disney springs? Dvc? Removal of the race track for expanded parking?
Was the race track removed for added parking or because of the instructor death? It seemed very coincidental time-wise to the death. My father-in-law did the stock-car racing a few weeks before that incident. We met the instructor that died and he was very nice to my father-in-law and whole family.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Was the race track removed for added parking or because of the instructor death? It seemed very coincidental time-wise to the death. My father-in-law did the stock-car racing a few weeks before that incident. We met the instructor that died and he was very nice to my father-in-law and whole family.


I think it was a precursor to a major transportation realignment...which is starting now...

But I don’t think the lawyers liked it there either.

I also don’t think it conveys the right message for Disney moving forward.
 

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