Why All the Vitriol Against Disney?

[SSH]

I'm also grateful for Universal Orlando...without their continual expansion the past 10-15 years...without their constant presence breathing down WDW's back, I'm not sure we'd have some of the additions and improvements we do have. Can you imagine how complacent the WDW leadership team would have been if they were still the only game in town?

 

[Magenta Panther]

I haven't been here in a while, other than checking in every now and then and making a comment or two. My wife just had our baby(her second, my first), so we've been very busy with that. Hopefully we can make her a Disney baby in two or three years Anyway, it seems like lately, there are lots of negative posts and comments about Disney. I'm sure there have always been those types of posts since the beginning of these forums, but it sure seems like a lot lately. Disney has fallen from grace. Disney just isn't like it used to be. Disney changed it, now it sucks. Disney *didn't* change it, now it sucks. Disney is only in it for the money. Disney will keep raising prices until only the rich can go. Walt would be spinning in his grave to see what Disney has become. The list goes on and on.

Anyone who disagrees with these posts, or tries to point out positive things about Disney, is labeled as a "Pixie Duster" and dismissed or railed against. I mean, everyone has an opinion, but if you don't agree with the negativity, you're in the wrong. This is a Disney fan site, is it not? Of course people are entitled to say what they want about Disney, but it just seems like people who don't sink down into the depths of anger and despair that some seem to inhabit on here are more or less attacked.

I can understand disappointment if your favorite ride is closed, for example, or you've had a bad experience. World of Motion and Horizons are just two examples of rides that I dearly miss. I have very fond memories of riding them when as I was growing up, many times, because my family was fortunate enough to be able to go to WDW every couple of years. However, even though they've been closed for many years, my memories of them are still happy ones. I haven't devolved into a raging hatemonster because of their closing, nor would I try to dissuade people from going to Disney, or not go myself, because of that. Businesses change, and Disney is a business. Lamenting a loss or change is one thing, but hating on that change and letting everyone know about it is quite another. For those for whom Disney can do no right, I just wonder why they're so bitter, and what could happen to bring them back to positivity. I appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

I think a lot of what you're reading here isn't vitriol. It's tough love.

Some of us here aren't just Disney fans, we're Walt Disney fans, and we want the parks to live up to his standards. And we know that he didn't see them primarily as merchandising outlets. They were a new way of telling wonderful stories. As such, he wanted them to have thematic cohesion. He wanted innovation and fresh ideas, while respectfully honoring ideas that have stood the test of time. And he always wanted park guests to get their money's worth, and he also was determined that the parks be accessible to all kinds of people at all kinds of income levels. He saw the success of Disneyland as an example of how to make the world a better place. He didn't see his parks as products. He saw them as an inspiring and uplifting gift to mankind. But now...we have people in charge of his parks that see them as ways to market "brands", as ways to coax more money out of guests who have already paid a very high price just to get in, and as ways to incorporate off-Studio purchased intellectual properties that many see as an ill fit in any Disney park. But the suits at Disney don't care about any of that. They want to charge more and cut corners and push square pegs into round holes (Guardians of the Galaxy in Epcot, Muppets in Liberty Square). They are ruled by greed, not by inspiration, or understanding of the Disney legacy, or even by good taste. And that distresses a lot of us here. So we vent. We realize that it probably won't do any good, that the best way to protest is to spend our money and our time at other parks, but we'd really rather not, not as long as a little genuine Disney magic still lingers in Walt's parks. How long it will is really the issue with a lot of us. We're afraid that what brought us to the Disney parks, what keeps them ahead of their rivals, will eventually be overlaid with flash-in-the-pan merchandising grabs. It's happening right now. We can only hope and pray it doesn't get any worse...

 

[BigRedDad]

It is not a hate of Disney. It is more of a hate of what Disney is doing. This is what much of the issue is. While Disney has been complacent, others have drastically stepped up their game. Think about it. Universal has drastically stepped up its game. They have added and built so much, they are making Disney look dumb.

Personally, I love Disney and I know what I am going to get. No matter what happens, a vacation is not going to get ruined there unlike other places to travel. We will continue our vacations there when we can. We are also spacing them out more than we use to because there are other fun places we can go as well. We just spent a week a Colonial Williamsburg. The total cost for a week stay which includes park tickets, other attractions, meals, and lodging came out to be the same cost for 3 adult tickets to WDW for a week. That is at least a $2,000 savings over Disney.

 

[216bruce]

Great point. I agree 100% and I think your Yeti example is spot-on. I myself have been frustrated talking to a friend who loves Expedition Everest and thinks the Yeti moves. Like your friend, she never rode the ride in A mode and doesn't know what she's missing.

But to me, that's part of the shame of it. Most people don't realize how good it used to be. When I first went in 92 my in-laws challenged me to find one scrap of trash in the parks or one single thing wrong with any attraction. I couldn't do it.

Is Disney still great? Yes. Is it still one of the best vacation spots in America? Definitely. Is it as good as it used to be? Sadly, no.

Personally, yeah, I agree that SOME things aren't...busted Yeti is an obvious example. The hardest part to get across to many folks on the boards is that "good" does not equate with favorite and "bad" does not necessarily mean "new". A prime example is the rumored redo of TGMR in The Studios/MGM/Disney's IP Adventure/That Half Day Park that used to be my favorite (last one is mine). When it was rumored or 'stated by the notorious insiders' that the attraction was a goner, folks lost their minds. Star Wars, total demolishment, blah blah blah...and yeah, it's one of my faves. I've salivated over the idea of an upgrade and the possibility of new scenes, better AA's (I'm looking at you laughable Tarzan) and we were all 'outraged'. But if you step away from the comfort and familiarity of an 'old friend' that every time you ride it reassures you that "hey, things are OK...I'm still here and Disney is still 'your Disney", you have to admit that a lot of these figures aren't great, most of the movies are unknown or unseen to most riders and replacing it COULD make sense. When it was rumored that it's going to be "The Great Mickey Ride.", my first response was to want to tell corporate to DO IT NOW! So, the moral of the story is that the park can't stay stagnant, won't for financial reasons, change CAN be good and 'good' and 'bad' is in the eye of the beholder. The idea of waiting more than 5 minutes for TSMM is abhorrent to me, but I'm old and don't care for video games. The idea of waiting for more than 5 minutes for a riverboat ride or HOP is unthinkable for most younger folks. Apart from maintenance issues, it's all relative.

 

[chrisbarry]

It is not a hate of Disney. It is more of a hate of what Disney is doing. This is what much of the issue is. While Disney has been complacent, others have drastically stepped up their game. Think about it. Universal has drastically stepped up its game. They have added and built so much, they are making Disney look dumb.

Personally, I love Disney and I know what I am going to get. No matter what happens, a vacation is not going to get ruined there unlike other places to travel. We will continue our vacations there when we can. We are also spacing them out more than we use to because there are other fun places we can go as well. We just spent a week a Colonial Williamsburg. The total cost for a week stay which includes park tickets, other attractions, meals, and lodging came out to be the same cost for 3 adult tickets to WDW for a week. That is at least a $2,000 savings over Disney.

I'm a huge fan of The Wizarding World over at Universal for sure. It's probably the best themed land in any theme park anywhere, but having just returned from both Universal and WDW, there are some glaring differences in the types of attractions. Essentially, just about every Universal attraction is the same. They're all projection based mixed with real set elements. You will inevitably fall forward. You will inevitably be towed upwards or forwards. Something is always trying to kill you. They upped the ante on a themed area like Diagonal Alley, but the attractions are all starting to seem the same. Spider-Man, Transformers, Simpsons, Gringotts, Minions - projections surrounding a motion simulator ride vehicle, differences in the package for sure, but the rides are pretty darn similar. One could certainly say they are just cramming their intellectual properties into rides. Even Kong is at its core a projection/motion simulator ride in a different package.

And I'm sorry, I've been to Williamsburg as well. Apples and oranges. I'm getting so much more for my money at Disney, infinitely more.

 

[SorcererMC]

I think a lot of what you're reading here isn't vitriol. It's tough love.

Some of us here aren't just Disney fans, we're Walt Disney fans, and we want the parks to live up to his standards. And we know that he didn't see them primarily as merchandising outlets. They were a new way of telling wonderful stories. As such, he wanted them to have thematic cohesion. He wanted innovation and fresh ideas, while respectfully honoring ideas that have stood the test of time. And he always wanted park guests to get their money's worth, and he also was determined that the parks be accessible to all kinds of people at all kinds of income levels. He saw the success of Disneyland as an example of how to make the world a better place. He didn't see his parks as products. He saw them as an inspiring and uplifting gift to mankind. But now...we have people in charge of his parks that see them as ways to market "brands", as ways to coax more money out of guests who have already paid a very high price just to get in, and as ways to incorporate off-Studio purchased intellectual properties that many see as an ill fit in any Disney park. But the suits at Disney don't care about any of that. They want to charge more and cut corners and push square pegs into round holes (Guardians of the Galaxy in Epcot, Muppets in Liberty Square). They are ruled by greed, not by inspiration, or understanding of the Disney legacy, or even by good taste. And that distresses a lot of us here. So we vent. We realize that it probably won't do any good, that the best way to protest is to spend our money and our time at other parks, but we'd really rather not, not as long as a little genuine Disney magic still lingers in Walt's parks. How long it will is really the issue with a lot of us. We're afraid that what brought us to the Disney parks, what keeps them ahead of their rivals, will eventually be overlaid with flash-in-the-pan merchandising grabs. It's happening right now. We can only hope and pray it doesn't get any worse...

I think this has a lot to do with it. Walt Disney may be gone, but he's not forgotten, and TWDC has a legacy to honor. I encourage anyone who may be fed up w/ WDW to spend their vacation dollars in San Francisco and visit the Walt Disney Family Museum. It's a wonderful tribute, while acknowledging the rough patches. It also has the best view of the Golden Gate bridge, and there's more to do in San Francisco besides 'just Disney'.

 

[RobidaFlats]

as ways to incorporate off-Studio purchased intellectual properties that many see as an ill fit in any Disney park.

 

[Berret]

I've really enjoyed reading the responses to my thread so far. I certainly don't look at things at Disney through rose-tinted spectacles or anything, although I do wear glasses There are definitely things I can complain about regarding a multitude of things with Disney. I don't have all that many posts on here compared to some, but I'm sure I've had a negative thing or two I've said regarding things in posts every now and then. However, for the most part I have fond nostalgia for what Disney was, and in many ways for me still is. My first Disney trip was in my mom's belly, and then next one a year or two later, and my family was fortunate enough to be able to take me many times when I was a child, a teenager, and beyond. Change is inevitable in anything, and while I may not always enjoy them, I don't see how complaining hard about something that has been changed at Disney will really help anything. I very much enjoy this website, and appreciate that there are former and current cast members who are a part of it who can give us unique perspective, but I also very much doubt that anything we post here in the long run will have an effect on corporate decisions about what is built, destroyed, or changed at Disney. Who knows, though, and maybe one of those cast members will rise in the echelons of leadership and make changes based on what is posted here. It's kinda neat to think about, actually.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Why the big words?

 

[Berret]

Why the big words?

If you're referring to me, my loquaciousness knows no bounds.

 

[Chef Mickey]

View attachment 156201

Doesn't mean the mouse can't expands its brand. It was started by a mouse, even if the mouse bought Star Wars and Marvel. That's OK. They just need to integrate the other brands tastefully and thoughtfully into the parks. For the most part, the acquisitions have helped Disney's portfolio and given us better content. That has not translated to the parks yet, but I'm optimistic for the future. Why wouldn't you be?

 

[RobidaFlats]

Doesn't mean the mouse can't expands its brand. It was started by a mouse, even if the mouse bought Star Wars and Marvel. That's OK. They just need to integrate the other brands tastefully and thoughtfully into the parks. For the most part, the acquisitions have helped Disney's portfolio and given us better content. That has not translated to the parks yet, but I'm optimistic for the future. Why wouldn't you be?

For decades the Walt Disney Co. was primarily a creative company. Lately they have largely shifted to the acquisition of creativity rather than production of it.

 

[SorcererMC]

I don't see how complaining hard about something that has been changed at Disney will really help anything

I also very much doubt that anything we post here in the long run will have an effect on corporate decisions about what is built, destroyed, or changed at Disney

You may be right about this, but these forums are one place where one's voice is seen/heard by other fans. Others on these boards often articulate very well what I can't (or haven't bothered to). Keep in mind that DisneyCo usually filters out negative comments/ fan backlash on social media places like the Disney Parks blog.

I first found these boards after a 2008 or 2010 WDW trip, and wanted to know about the changes to the parks that I had noticed (eg Mary Blair mural gone), and I wanted to know why it occurred. There are a limited number of places to find that kind of information, as well as know what people think/feel about it.

 

[Chef Mickey]

For decades the Walt Disney Co. was primarily a creative company. Lately they have largely shifted to the acquisition of creativity rather than production of it.

I completely agree. I think they can integrate smart acquisitions with their own original content, something I think has been lacking lately.

I was just pointing out that acquiring elite intellectual property like Star Wars and Marvel are certainly not negatives. My issue is the original ideas, particularly at EPCOT have been lacking since the Iger era began.

 

[RobidaFlats]

I completely agree. I think they can integrate smart acquisitions with their own original content, something I think has been lacking lately.

I was just pointing out that acquiring elite intellectual property like Star Wars and Marvel are certainly not negatives. My issue is the original ideas, particularly at EPCOT have been lacking since the Iger era began.

I don't disagree with anything that you said. The satirical cartoon (as most are) is just supposed to be a humorous thought-provoker.

 

[JRMFL]

We can't help it. It's part of being a predator lol. And I hate it.

Bingo. A lot of the answer is right there, in that reference to evolutionary psychology. As a guest only until I was in my 40s, I saw changes but they seemed much more magic than tragic. Now, as a CM, it's exactly as Steve described; finally, I got to go through that door labelled "cast members only," however in doing that, I found that the Wizard of Oz was just a guy. It's the same as learning how the magic trick is done-- no more magic/illusion. I'm my own worst enemy because of my curiosity.

 

[SorcererMC]

For decades the Walt Disney Co. was primarily a creative company. Lately they have largely shifted to the acquisition of creativity rather than production of it.

And relying on acquisition somehow gives the impression that Disney has 'run out of good ideas', and I doubt that's true. So then it comes down to 'how is the creative process being supported?' or 'why aren't they taking risks on their own content?', which is the root of a lot of debates over where acquired content belongs, in the parks or otherwise.

 

[Incomudro]

But these boards didn't used to be like that. There used to be tremendous enthusiasm and excitement for whatever Disney was doing next. Many of us have become jaded and cynical, in part because Disney has let us down in recent years and in part because we've become grumpy and negative over how things have changed. I still have hope that the new attractions (Star Wars, Avatar, Toy Story, etc) will signal a new era of excitement for the parks and maybe when those areas are built I will start to visit more regularly again. We'll see.

Negative people drive away positive ones.
I've seen many forums that I am a member of from music to automotive eventually become the residence of mostly the complainers.

 

[Cowboy Steve]

Bingo. A lot of the answer is right there, in that reference to evolutionary psychology. As a guest only until I was in my 40s, I saw changes but they seemed much more magic than tragic. Now, as a CM, it's exactly as Steve described; finally, I got to go through that door labelled "cast members only," however in doing that, I found that the Wizard of Oz was just a guy. It's the same as learning how the magic trick is done-- no more magic/illusion. I'm my own worst enemy because of my curiosity.

I was worried about that, to a certain extent, when I started working at the amusement park I grew up with (with the exception of my military time, I have never lived more than 45 mins away). Would I lose my love for the park? Would it taint my future experiences in the park as a visitor? The answer for me was... no. I worked there 14 seasons before a new career path made it impractical to continue working for them. I still LOVE spending a day in the park! And I have a plethora of knowledge about the running and managing of a major amusement park, the infrastructure, support network, and so on. I know how this ride operates, what the quirks are in that ride, etc. Now, even though it is touted as the 'worlds largest amusement park', there isn't a lot of magic like at a Disney park. That leads to another whole discussion about the differences between a 'theme park' and an 'amusement park'... lol. But I do not regret my time working at the park. If anything it has enhanced my future visits... lol!

I had often thought of how I might fit in at WDW as a cast member. Where would I fit in the best? What would I do there and would it forever spoil Disney for me? Dunno... some stones are best left un-turned. At least for now... The Ohio winters are feeling colder and colder every year...

 

[chrisbarry]

For decades the Walt Disney Co. was primarily a creative company. Lately they have largely shifted to the acquisition of creativity rather than production of it.

I'm sorry, acquiring Star Wars, Marvel and Muppets as opposed to Snow White, Cinderella, Bambi, Sleeping Beauty, Peter Pan, the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Winnie the Pooh, Mary Poppins...I could go on and on and on. What they do now isn't all that different then what they've done before.