Why All the Vitriol Against Disney?

[Berret]

I haven't been here in a while, other than checking in every now and then and making a comment or two. My wife just had our baby(her second, my first), so we've been very busy with that. Hopefully we can make her a Disney baby in two or three years Anyway, it seems like lately, there are lots of negative posts and comments about Disney. I'm sure there have always been those types of posts since the beginning of these forums, but it sure seems like a lot lately. Disney has fallen from grace. Disney just isn't like it used to be. Disney changed it, now it sucks. Disney *didn't* change it, now it sucks. Disney is only in it for the money. Disney will keep raising prices until only the rich can go. Walt would be spinning in his grave to see what Disney has become. The list goes on and on.

Anyone who disagrees with these posts, or tries to point out positive things about Disney, is labeled as a "Pixie Duster" and dismissed or railed against. I mean, everyone has an opinion, but if you don't agree with the negativity, you're in the wrong. This is a Disney fan site, is it not? Of course people are entitled to say what they want about Disney, but it just seems like people who don't sink down into the depths of anger and despair that some seem to inhabit on here are more or less attacked.

I can understand disappointment if your favorite ride is closed, for example, or you've had a bad experience. World of Motion and Horizons are just two examples of rides that I dearly miss. I have very fond memories of riding them when as I was growing up, many times, because my family was fortunate enough to be able to go to WDW every couple of years. However, even though they've been closed for many years, my memories of them are still happy ones. I haven't devolved into a raging hatemonster because of their closing, nor would I try to dissuade people from going to Disney, or not go myself, because of that. Businesses change, and Disney is a business. Lamenting a loss or change is one thing, but hating on that change and letting everyone know about it is quite another. For those for whom Disney can do no right, I just wonder why they're so bitter, and what could happen to bring them back to positivity. I appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

 

[RobidaFlats]

I haven't been here in a while, other than checking in every now and then and making a comment or two. My wife just had our baby(her second, my first), so we've been very busy with that. Hopefully we can make her a Disney baby in two or three years Anyway, it seems like lately, there are lots of negative posts and comments about Disney. I'm sure there have always been those types of posts since the beginning of these forums, but it sure seems like a lot lately. Disney has fallen from grace. Disney just isn't like it used to be. Disney changed it, now it sucks. Disney *didn't* change it, now it sucks. Disney is only in it for the money. Disney will keep raising prices until only the rich can go. Walt would be spinning in his grave to see what Disney has become. The list goes on and on.

Anyone who disagrees with these posts, or tries to point out positive things about Disney, is labeled as a "Pixie Duster" and dismissed or railed against. I mean, everyone has an opinion, but if you don't agree with the negativity, you're in the wrong. This is a Disney fan site, is it not? Of course people are entitled to say what they want about Disney, but it just seems like people who don't sink down into the depths of anger and despair that some seem to inhabit on here are more or less attacked.

I can understand disappointment if your favorite ride is closed, for example, or you've had a bad experience. World of Motion and Horizons are just two examples of rides that I dearly miss. I have very fond memories of riding them when as I was growing up, many times, because my family was fortunate enough to be able to go to WDW every couple of years. However, even though they've been closed for many years, my memories of them are still happy ones. I haven't devolved into a raging hatemonster because of their closing, nor would I try to dissuade people from going to Disney, or not go myself, because of that. Businesses change, and Disney is a business. Lamenting a loss or change is one thing, but hating on that change and letting everyone know about it is quite another. For those for whom Disney can do no right, I just wonder why they're so bitter, and what could happen to bring them back to positivity. I appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

I know it's a nightmare to weed through dozens and dozens of pages of arguments, but those really are the best places to answer your question. Not everyone (even those with the same general opinions) agree on the whys and so you really need to look at the arguments made by individuals about individual events/situations. There are many people who just shout opinion without any attempt at explaining it, but there are even more who take the time to articulate why they hold certain opinions, both pro and con.

If nothing else, it should be entertaining, but go through the threads that you are particularly curious about and read the debate. That should answer your question. No one will be able to distill it effectively or fairly.

 

[arielsgrotto]

I mean I personally try not to focus on little problems with WDW too much because I rarely get the chance to go and wanna enjoy it as much as possible. At the same time I'm willing to criticize (like saying the Frozen ride, as much as I'd like to ride it, seems like they kind of just shoved frozen into Maelstrom's shell awkwardly).

I'm torn on this issue I guess it's different when you go often

 

[Schneewittchen]

Two things:

1. The source of the anger - unmet expectations
People who are familiar with a Disney service, attraction, etc. are going to be upset when that thing is perceived to be different from what they expected. "Last time I went.... the fries were saltier, the bathrooms were cleaner, the CMs were nicer." Whatever it is that is different in a way that you don't like is BAD.

2. The reason why anger is vented here - anonymity and commiseration
This one is obvious. Fan sites are an outlet for people who aren't married to or best buds with other Disnerds. My DH will entertain these conversations periodically, so I do have an outlet. And I'm grooming the kids, but it's hard to have intelligent talks with the kids about business strategies, clean bathrooms and IP.

 

[pax_65]

My first trip to WDW was in 1992. In that era, Disney was famous for putting their guests first - nobody did customer service like Disney. In fact, they held seminars on it and companies worked to apply those lessons to their own customers. Disney build up a huge loyal following of repeat customers like myself and many others who are on these boards. These days, complaints center around the fact that Disney is no longer so customer-focused. They are now focused primarily on maximizing profits. Prices are going up and the value is going down. We're seeing more and more upcharges. Until recently, we haven't seen the reinvestment into the parks that we'd expect (hopefully this is changing). I still love Disney but I've gone from a twice-a-year annual passholder to a once-every-2 or 3 year guest who is exploring more diverse vacation options these days.

 

[Johnguelff]

People love to complain about the things they love.

 

[pax_65]

People love to complain about the things they love.

But these boards didn't used to be like that. There used to be tremendous enthusiasm and excitement for whatever Disney was doing next. Many of us have become jaded and cynical, in part because Disney has let us down in recent years and in part because we've become grumpy and negative over how things have changed. I still have hope that the new attractions (Star Wars, Avatar, Toy Story, etc) will signal a new era of excitement for the parks and maybe when those areas are built I will start to visit more regularly again. We'll see.

 

[Sans Souci]

It's a bit like loving your local sports team, whichever sport you prefer. Some people passionately love their home team and become livid with what they perceive as a poor decision leading to a poor outcome (season). You can still love your home team and be vocal about their missteps.

 

[JIMINYCR]

It's a bit like loving your local sports team, whichever sport you prefer. Some people passionately love their home team and become livid with they perceive as a poor decision leading to a poor outcome (season). You can still love your home team and be vocal about their missteps.

Along with that thought.... there are so many arm chair quarterbacks that know exactly what play should have been called to win the game. Or who should have been taken out and replaced. Sitting here at the keyboard there are millions of people who know exactly what Walt would have done, or what moves Eisner or Iger should have made, or today what changes would make Disney the utopia playground they envision it could and should be. Its easy to vocalize anger online, but not so easy to make the hard decisions in the boardroom that can satisfy everyone.

 

[horizons82]

I could write an entire dissertation about this; I too am a local who went to WDW quite often because my dad is a CM (and has been for over 20 years).

I've basically come to terms with beloved rides and attractions either having been removed or changed, but that is just a small part of the equation.

My biggest complaint when it comes to the actual parks is that the new attractions and updates simply no longer seem to have the creativity, ingenuity, amount of detail or depth of the originals. Essentially, IMHO, rides and attractions that used to be special enough to create a sense of nostalgia in the first place, are being replaced by attractions which no longer do.

I'm not so blinded by nostalgia that I can't accept changes or updates, but even in trying to maintain an objective outlook I would definitely say that updates and replacements seems to fall short of previous attractions far more often than equaling or outdoing them.

 

[RobidaFlats]

I could write an entire dissertation about this

What are you waiting for?

In all seriousness, I love reading lengthy and well thought out pieces. It's not exactly what forums are built for, but I tend to get a better idea of the author's thoughts than when I have to piece together a bunch of smaller posts. In addition, the discussion of specific points is greatly simplified when starting with a cohesive and detailed argument.

Perhaps it's time to create a certificate program in WDW Studies so I can read and critique the theses of applicants

 

[SyracuseDisneyFan]

When I go to Disney, I only want to think about the positive sides of my trip. I don't go as often as I'd like. I feel like every trip is a treat for me.

 

[horizons82]

What are you waiting for?

In all seriousness, I love reading lengthy and well thought out pieces. It's not exactly what forums are built for, but I tend to get a better idea of the author's thoughts than when I have to piece together a bunch of smaller posts. In addition, the discussion of specific points is greatly simplified when starting with a cohesive and detailed argument.

Perhaps it's time to create a certificate program in WDW Studies so I can read and critique the theses of applicants

Epcot being my favorite park, this topic comes up often and I've written about this so much and at such length at times in the past that I've probably bored some people to tears

I've basically learned to make my responses concise without going on and on and on and on and...on, yet always try to answer the specific question at hand without too many tangents.

Having a CM in the family for over 20 years means I've gone to the parks a LOT of times and I always enjoy going, but even with an objective viewpoint it's hard not to see a downward trend in what I perceive as a lesser investment in creativity, detail and design, resulting in fewer awe-inspiring experiences.

Again, this is all IMHO as I know others--especially those who have not experienced Epcot when it was EPCOT Center--simply have nothing to compare newer attractions to.

 

[pax_65]

I'm not so blinded by nostalgia that I can't accept changes or updates, but even in trying to maintain an objective outlook I would definitely say that updates and replacements seems to fall short of previous attractions far more often than equaling or outdoing them.

To be objective, it's a mixed bag. In new Fantasyland, the 7 Dwarfs Mine Train is well-done (yes a little too short) but Mermaid is not up-to-par with other quality dark rides. I haven't seen Frozen in person yet but the videos I've seen look stunning. I will miss Maelstrom but for better or worse I guess it's all part of the direction Epcot is taking.

Of greater concern is the lack of new attractions at all. Since Toy Story Mania opened in 2008, we've had the 3 attractions mentioned above plus Sum of All Thrills (2009) and the new Soarin' movie and that's basically it except for some street shows and meet n greets - which might explain why people actually got excited for the construction of the Tangled bathrooms.

And during that time ticket prices have increased by how much?

Still, if Pandora, Star Wars Land, and Toy Story Land deliver in a big way and if Epcot Futureworld can be fixed, it's a whole new ball game for WDW.

 

[Mickey5150]

PIXIE DUSTER and proud!! I don't care that people complain about WDW but what I don't understand is why an amusement park, a place for fun would cause people so much stress and give them so much hatred. I've seen people here complain because 1 time they had to wait 10 MINUTES for their table at a restaurant. I've seen 50 page long threads about a rumor from somebody which may or may not be true and nonstop complaining and yelling from people. Maybe people need to spend more time with family and friends to realize the truly important things in life.

 

[Dead2009]

Hatred is such a strong word to be thrown around. People dont hate Disney...they just dont like all the stuff theyve been doing over the years.

 

[morningstar]

I wouldn't equate being demanding with vitriol. It's love - tough love. Disney excellence has created high expectations for Itself. They so rarely disappoint that when they do, there's an outcry.

 

[Schneewittchen]

I'm wondering if I need to go get some popcorn.....

 

[RobidaFlats]

PIXIE DUSTER and proud!! I don't care that people complain about WDW but what I don't understand is why an amusement park, a place for fun would cause people so much stress and give them so much hatred. I've seen people here complain because 1 time they had to wait 10 MINUTES for their table at a restaurant. I've seen 50 page long threads about a rumor from somebody which may or may not be true and nonstop complaining and yelling from people. Maybe people need to spend more time with family and friends to realize the truly important things in life.

Nothing like arguing that people shouldn't complain about a theme park by complaining about the people instead.

Maybe people need to spend more time reading before reducing an entire group of people to whiners who complain about 10 minute waits at a restaurant.

 

[abucha]

I love this question, and even though I’ve been visiting and reading posts on this forum for years, it has prompted me to make only my second post ever.



Vitriol is right. The level of complaining and downright hatred has become almost overwhelming, and there seems to be so many different reasons for it. First you have the nostalgia “addicts”. Nothing is ever like it was or “such and such” was so great compared to “whatever is new”. Sure – there are things I miss, but I prefer to enjoy my memories of those things, and not complain about missing them. To those who constantly feel the need to bring up Horizons, Mr. Toad, etc., just remember – nothing is as good as it seems in your memories. I challenge you to go back and watch television shows you loved when you were younger. Chances are you’d be embarrassed to believe you ever even liked some of them. Instead – cherish your memories, stop living in the past and attempt to enjoy what new experiences life has to offer you. If you don’t like it – avoid it. If the park has become so bad with new experiences you don’t like – find a new diversion and don’t try to ruin it for the rest of us.



Then you have those who just don’t like Disney. Many attempt to sound like they do and/or did love Disney at one time, but if you read carefully you can often discern that they have never said a positive word about Disney. Just click their username and read through some of their other posts. You’ll get a feel for were people really stand.



Many people are truly concerned about the direction of the parks, and you can tell, but usually these people don’t sound like the “vitriol” crowd. They sound genuinely concerned. Sometimes they may sound worse, but it’s usually because the post was short and “non-explanatory”. I give them a pass. Forum posts can sound trite and short-tempered when they are not meant to be.



I read all of these posts with great amusement. There are some favorites of mine simply because their vitriol is so amusing and contrived. They are essentially trolls who love to stir the pot. I especially like the end is near crowd because for many of the them the end has been near for a long time now.



My big question is whether anyone has ever started a “fact checking” post? I read so many posts from “people in the know” that turn out to be false or total fabrications. I would love a post were individuals are held accountable for their statements. That way you could figure out who is just flapping their gums.



Sorry for the long windedness. I could go on forever with this topic.