Why All the Vitriol Against Disney?

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Ultimately it comes down to what you like. Personal choice and taste. As a consumer of Disneys business offerings I have taken the time to occasionally comment on a product or service I have used on both Disneys sites, fan sites and direct to Disney. I make no claims to be knowledgeable about what Walt would do, have little interest in legacy, I comment as a user of its business. I believe that the aspect of supporting a functioning business is something that seemingly ignites fervent support from Disney fans. Given this I would have thought they would be behind users of the business expressing concern when the product or service didnt meet with their expectations or indeed comply with the images promoted.
But then perhaps customer service is an old fashioned out moded ideal.

 

[216bruce]

I actually really like this film. Glad you mentioned it.

There was no film I was looking forward to more last year than that one. While I enjoyed it, the promo stuff they did at D23 for it made me think that there was a MUCH better film left somewhere in development and in editing once I finally saw it. Same with "The Lone Ranger". Could have been great but they decided to play it for yucks with the Ranger and Tonto, while the Ranger's character comes from the same emotional and moral place as Steve Rogers and Cap in a lot of ways, but they made him a buffoon who couldn't do anything without Tonto....don't get me started...

 

[Matt_Black]

I actually thought "John Carter" was fantastic and enjoyed it more that SW VII...not even close. I'd have felt the same about "The Lone Ranger" if they'd have given the characters the respect that they gave the ones in 'Carter'. Playing them as goofs irked the hell out of me. At times it felt like a huge budget "Apple Dumpling Gang" but with fantastic visuals and action scenes. Solid story, lousy character interpretation.

I remember seeing someone try to defend it by saying that since it's a flashback told by Tonto, of course he's going to have the Lone Ranger be kind of a goof. This is actually WORSE because it means that after all those years and adventures, they never REALLY became friends.

 

[216bruce]

I remember seeing someone try to defend it by saying that since it's a flashback told by Tonto, of course he's going to have the Lone Ranger be kind of a goof. This is actually WORSE because it means that after all those years and adventures, they never REALLY became friends.

Very true and it even devalues Tonto's character more by losing the dignity he had in the TV show. Arrrghhh. Iconic characters, legendary from radio and television finally get the big budget treatment and a major studio release, then.....pfffptht!

 

[Matt_Black]

Very true and it even devalues Tonto's character more by losing the dignity he had in the TV show. Arrrghhh. Iconic characters, legendary from radio and television finally get the big budget treatment and a major studio release, then.....pfffptht!

Say what you want about Filmation's animated series, but they got Tonto right.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think what you are getting at is - isn't a monopoly on the market a wise business decision? Yes, yes it is. My lament is based on wanting 'original' or unknown stories from them vs. what I would call 'pre-packaged'. And there is the question of marketing budget as @216bruce said. My concern is that original works will be 'drowned out' by their big-budget 'cousins', if that makes sense.

You could be right, but, if the original is good, it will hold it's own. Frozen is a good example of that, along with others. Those are the things that Disney does best. Their only real competition was Pixar and a lesser degree by Dreamworks, but, Pixar is Disney now. It is not pre-packaged, it is the same as if Disney had hired away all the talent from Pixar. It is now a Disney production. The rest like Star Wars and Marvel are not Disney type things, yet now they can capitalize on it without creating it. That is good for us all, especially if you like the Star Wars addition coming to the park, financed to a degree by the massive success of the last SW movie.

The problem is that there is no Walt Disney spin to most of it, but, at some point in time we have to accept that there was only one Walt Disney. He wasn't cloned. He may be the last of his kind ever. But, we still all benefit from the acquisitions made by the current Disney Company. Instead of being remorseful, maybe we should try and be happy that it is now accessible through Disney.

 

[SorcererMC]

You could be right, but, if the original is good, it will hold it's own. Frozen is a good example of that, along with others. Those are the things that Disney does best. Their only real competition was Pixar and a lesser degree by Dreamworks, but, Pixar is Disney now. It is not pre-packaged, it is the same as if Disney had hired away all the talent from Pixar. It is now a Disney production. The rest like Star Wars and Marvel are not Disney type things, yet now they can capitalize on it without creating it. That is good for us all, especially if you like the Star Wars addition coming to the park, financed to a degree by the massive success of the last SW movie.

The problem is that there is no Walt Disney spin to most of it, but, at some point in time we have to accept that there was only one Walt Disney. He wasn't cloned. He may be the last of his kind ever. But, we still all benefit from the acquisitions made by the current Disney Company. Instead of being remorseful, maybe we should try and be happy that it is now accessible through Disney.

I understand this argument; at the time of that post and subsequently I was only considering live-action films. Re:animation, they do tend to stick w/ 'in-house' content. Re: Marvel, I think that their Marvel audience has been growing with each of the Captain America films, each being more successful than the last.

I generally have been limiting my comments by keeping the films separate from how they are introducing those to the theme parks. So, now that you mention it - I don't like how they have been translating the success of their films into the theme parks. The DHS SW addition may be an exception to that, but they are expanding upon an IP which already exists in that park. Almost everything else - ie Frozen into Epcot, GotG into Epcot - I think they are going about it in completely the wrong way. I like Disney films, and I like Disney theme parks, but somehow they manage to, uh, muck it all up in the ways they have been putting those two together...it is those kinds of strategic decisions that irk me (and not the money-making imperative itself).

 

[216bruce]

You could be right, but, if the original is good, it will hold it's own. Frozen is a good example of that, along with others. Those are the things that Disney does best. Their only real competition was Pixar and a lesser degree by Dreamworks, but, Pixar is Disney now. It is not pre-packaged, it is the same as if Disney had hired away all the talent from Pixar. It is now a Disney production. The rest like Star Wars and Marvel are not Disney type things, yet now they can capitalize on it without creating it. That is good for us all, especially if you like the Star Wars addition coming to the park, financed to a degree by the massive success of the last SW movie.

The problem is that there is no Walt Disney spin to most of it, but, at some point in time we have to accept that there was only one Walt Disney. He wasn't cloned. He may be the last of his kind ever. But, we still all benefit from the acquisitions made by the current Disney Company. Instead of being remorseful, maybe we should try and be happy that it is now accessible through Disney.

And, honestly, be glad that THIS company purchased these entities and not a company that has no creative history. It could have been a LOT worse for Star Wars and Marvel and Pixar fans.

 

[Matt_Black]

And, honestly, be glad that THIS company purchased these entities and not a company that has no creative history. It could have been a LOT worse for Star Wars and Marvel and Pixar fans.

Just think- Warner Brothers could have bought them. I think the past few years WB has proven they can't find their collective butt with both hands and a flashlight.

 

[ford91exploder]

Great point. I agree 100% and I think your Yeti example is spot-on. I myself have been frustrated talking to a friend who loves Expedition Everest and thinks the Yeti moves. Like your friend, she never rode the ride in A mode and doesn't know what she's missing.

But to me, that's part of the shame of it. Most people don't realize how good it used to be. When I first went in 92 my in-laws challenged me to find one scrap of trash in the parks or one single thing wrong with any attraction. I couldn't do it.

Is Disney still great? Yes. Is it still one of the best vacation spots in America? Definitely. Is it as good as it used to be? Sadly, no.

This I think encapsulates the whole issue, Yes Disney is one of the BEST places to go for a vacation still, that being said those who never got to experience the parks prior to 2005 or so will never understand what the 'Disney Difference' really meant and why us 'old timers' are so disgusted with the trajectory of the parks.

Being long time DVC before 2012 or so there were NEVER problems with the rooms, Now every visit there is something major like broken fixtures/appliances. This is a real letdown because it means the FIRST thing you need to do is visit the front desk to go on record that X is broken (so you don't get billed for it post checkout) That's NOT the way Disney USED to work and lets face it colors your vacation experience.

The great irony is that the only parks which maintain the old time Disney standards don't belong to Disney and you need to visit Japan to see them.

 

[ford91exploder]

It is not a hate of Disney. It is more of a hate of what Disney is doing. This is what much of the issue is. While Disney has been complacent, others have drastically stepped up their game. Think about it. Universal has drastically stepped up its game. They have added and built so much, they are making Disney look dumb.

Personally, I love Disney and I know what I am going to get. No matter what happens, a vacation is not going to get ruined there unlike other places to travel. We will continue our vacations there when we can. We are also spacing them out more than we use to because there are other fun places we can go as well. We just spent a week a Colonial Williamsburg. The total cost for a week stay which includes park tickets, other attractions, meals, and lodging came out to be the same cost for 3 adult tickets to WDW for a week. That is at least a $2,000 savings over Disney.

Don't count on the fact that Disney cannot ruin your vacation, Did a split stay over the holidays one year, Disney in the transition to their new reservation system only transferred the FIRST half of the stay, Second half was LOST and Disney was unable/unwilling to do anything about it except 'Have a Magical Day' - Thank GOD for Southwest at least the early trip home did not cost extra.

BTW Disney did try to CHARGE for the missing second half of the trip required a 3 way call with CC company and Disney to fix that one.

 

[Matt_Black]

Don't count on the fact that Disney cannot ruin your vacation, Did a split stay over the holidays one year, Disney in the transition to their new reservation system only transferred the FIRST half of the stay, Second half was LOST and Disney was unable/unwilling to do anything about it except 'Have a Magical Day' - Thank GOD for Southwest at least the early trip home did not cost extra.

BTW Disney did try to CHARGE for the missing second half of the trip required a 3 way call with CC company and Disney to fix that one.

Careful- you sound a little bit like KATIEBUG101 there....

 

[ford91exploder]

Careful- you sound a little bit like KATIEBUG101 there....

So what it happened, I travel for business so I always have multiple copies of paperwork on hand and still the supposed leader in customer service could not fix their OWN mistake because they in the transition oversold the resorts because of the overlap I'm guessing that the conversion code did not handle a split stay correctly in that it would process the first segment of a linked reservation correctly but drop the remainder.

And that's when I started to see Disney in a less than positive light.

 

[pax_65]

Don't count on the fact that Disney cannot ruin your vacation, Did a split stay over the holidays one year, Disney in the transition to their new reservation system only transferred the FIRST half of the stay, Second half was LOST and Disney was unable/unwilling to do anything about it except 'Have a Magical Day' - Thank GOD for Southwest at least the early trip home did not cost extra.

BTW Disney did try to CHARGE for the missing second half of the trip required a 3 way call with CC company and Di

Great point - for the purposes of this thread my focus was on the parks but reservations, accommodations, dining, transportation, and customer service are all part of the issue too. In the 90s there was almost never an issue with reservations or accommodations but if anything was wrong Disney would fix it immediately.

The pixie dust wore off for me a few years back. After fighting with our magic bands all week (we couldn't get all of them to work correctly all at once), I returned to my room after 45 minutes at the front desk to find my magic band would no longer open the door to my room. It was a new system at the time, and Disney was working out the kinks... but the Disney I knew would never have rolled out a system that wasn't ready for guests. After that I realized things had changed.

 

[ford91exploder]

Great point - for the purposes of this thread my focus was on the parks but reservations, accommodations, dining, transportation, and customer service are all part of the issue too. In the 90s there was almost never an issue with reservations or accommodations but if anything was wrong Disney would fix it immediately.

The pixie dust wore off for me a few years back. After fighting with our magic bands all week (we couldn't get all of them to work correctly all at once), I returned to my room after 45 minutes at the front desk to find my magic band would no longer open the door to my room. It was a new system at the time, and Disney was working out the kinks... but the Disney I knew would never have rolled out a system that wasn't ready for guests. After that I realized things had changed.

To me Disney's biggest problem is the degradation in customer service, When something goes wrong I don't want freebies be they FP's or gift cards I simply want the item or service I PAID FOR. When compensation offered I usually refuse it based on the theory they will remember the issue when the guest said NO to a freebie.

 

[Matt_Black]

but the Disney I knew would never have rolled out a system that wasn't ready for guests.

Uh-huh.

 

[pax_65]

Uh-huh.

Well, 1955 was a little before the Disney I'm referring to (the 1990s).

 

[chrisbarry]

Now every visit there is something major like broken fixtures/appliances. This is a real letdown because it means the FIRST thing you need to do is visit the front desk to go on record that X is broken (so you don't get billed for it post checkout)

I'm sorry. I hate to be all pie eyed, but without exaggeration, 15 trips in a row since '03 and I've never, ever had anything wrong with any of my rooms. Caribbean Beach, Riverside, French Quarter, Wilderness, Poly, Boardwalk and Yacht so far and I kid you not, not once have I had a complaint about something not working in my room or my room being dirty. I asked for extra shampoo one trip at Yacht recently and got a garbage pail size bag full of shampoo, conditioner, soap, etc. I can't be extremely lucky. Something is still going right.

 

[Mrhappyplace]

Amazing. I was going to say exactly those words.

Disney's Cinderella is the Cinderella to essentially everyone in the world. I don't think you can say that about Episode VII.

While I'm not going to dispute your point you really can't compare how audiences feel about these two movies. It's apples and oranges as one has been around for decades and the other months. But also society moves at a much faster pace now then it did back in the days of Cinderella and all the other Disney classics. I doubt any new franchises will have the lasting power of franchises that developed their fanbases decades ago.

 

[Matt_Black]

It's difficult, but it can be done. Look at Harry Potter- I'm not a fan, but I can respect how the franchise has built an impressive fandom, almost on par with Star Wars.