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When are all these cutbacks not about COVID anymore?

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
Like many, I attached so many GOOD feelings to WDW, for many years. I first went in 1976, for the Bicentennial. So as a young kid I took to that feeling of home. As with many things, life has changed. And with this, ALL things in America are connected with Politics, which of course, is based on Power/control dictated by Profit. It took some time for me. But so many still need to RETURN to reality. Let's all remember that WDW is FANTASY. A place to ESCAPE Reality. A break for the mind heart and soul. A pleasant pressure release. But Disney the Parks and CORP, are nowhere near being what Walt created and put his heart and soul into. And unfortunately, the head offices are filled, now, with people that are extremely corrupt and Anti American. Unfortunately. Many of you, are going to have to do, what I did some time ago. Reevaluate your love of Disney, and what it has now become. Which is anything but a Family orientated company. The FAMILY part of anything, comes from a Family.
Reevaluating trips to Disney has become a regular family practice for my family also. We know the time of year, activities, entertainment, food and have realistic expectations for the trip. For a very long time Disney has relied on and used crowds as an excuse to squeeze guests for every penny possible while claiming it is critical for everyone's safety plus ensuring a positive experience. The Disney executives are now resisting changing their pricing model while cost cutting the guests experiences. Maybe a few less executives, some more experiences plus an adjustment to the pricing model will result in satisfied guests that feel safe to come back again with more family and friends. Wow a return of more guests will result in more $ long term.
 
71' in a stroller and a diaper. First rope drop, my parents took me to a place that would literally shape the way I saw entertainment and vacation forever. As Disneyphiles we have the bar set so high that other theme parks cannot near compare. But at 50 years of age even doing well financially, I see 10-15 % increases yearly while slowly creeping away items once included in a trip. I always stay on property. I always get dining plan. I always book deluxe restaurants. And yet they still find a way to make you spend more for less. I think the original poster might have worded his frustration in a way that made alot disagree or be unnecessarily snarky towards his post. But Universal is doing well right now. And it's because they are transparent in how much they had to cut while simultaneously reducing pricing and offering deals that matched those cuts appropriately. I think that's really what's frustrating alot of us. And just remember if enough people show displeasure by not booking, they will eventually be forced to evaluate. We are on a Disney forum because we love Disney. And it hasn't been magical in quite a while now. Sorry so long
 

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
Eisner milked 9/11 all the way up to when he was voted out by the shareholders in 2005. I expect the current management to take full advantage of the current situation for at least the next 5 years.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Like many, I attached so many GOOD feelings to WDW, for many years. I first went in 1976, for the Bicentennial. So as a young kid I took to that feeling of home. As with many things, life has changed. And with this, ALL things in America are connected with Politics, which of course, is based on Power/control dictated by Profit. It took some time for me. But so many still need to RETURN to reality. Let's all remember that WDW is FANTASY. A place to ESCAPE Reality. A break for the mind heart and soul. A pleasant pressure release. But Disney the Parks and CORP, are nowhere near being what Walt created and put his heart and soul into. And unfortunately, the head offices are filled, now, with people that are extremely corrupt and Anti American. Unfortunately. Many of you, are going to have to do, what I did some time ago. Reevaluate your love of Disney, and what it has now become. Which is anything but a Family orientated company. The FAMILY part of anything, comes from a Family.
Why do you believe Disney is anti-American and not family oriented?
 

Stitch826

Well-Known Member
Covid will be the excuse for Disney to do the changes they have wanted to do for years.

The Park reservation system will not go away IMHO. Crowding at MK was always an issue. Post Covid it will give them a way to limit MK crowds and "push" you to another park during your visit. Park hopping allowed to certain parks only based on reservations for the day.
Regarding the park reservation system...personally, I believe it will be eliminated as soon as social distancing is eliminated and capacity is increased back to normal levels. The idea of having to commit to a park months in advance is insane. While you had to already do that with fastpasses, you could always just change your mind that day and wing it. Not so with the park reservation system.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
While no one wants to see less in their Disney experience, there is a financial view to look at.
Pre-Covid
Disney looked at the non-revenue and revenue-neutral items as an expense.
IF 350,000 people visited the parks in a week and the weekly cost to a line-item like fireworks was $1,000,000 the cost was actually $2.87 per capita
Post Covid
The same fireworks shows are still $1,000,000 per week so it is a fixed expense if 10- people or 350,000 people show up. But if the crown total is now only 100,000 people per week with the reduced attendance, then the same $1,000,000 line item is now being split by only 100,000 guests. Now the per cap price is $10.00 per person. As you add up fixed expenses, the per capita cost goes up with reduced attendance.

Disney has already stated that the parks need to remain cash flow positive, so if you have the same variable per cap costs, but now have higher per cap costs, then something has to give to keep per cap cost below per cap revenue.

The same goes for add-on income like parties. If a party had 30,000 guests pre-covid but will only have 12,000 guests post-covid then the per cap cost of the party is almost triple. So you either have to cut the expense for the party, raise the price of the party (not a good choice in the current economy), or cancel the party. Disney seems to have found a compromise where they have cancelled the party but moved some of the experiences to the day guests.

(note, all numbers and costs are hypothetical, but just as valid for the math)
 

donsullivan

Premium Member
While no one wants to see less in their Disney experience, there is a financial view to look at.
Pre-Covid
Disney looked at the non-revenue and revenue-neutral items as an expense.
IF 350,000 people visited the parks in a week and the weekly cost to a line-item like fireworks was $1,000,000 the cost was actually $2.87 per capita
Post Covid
The same fireworks shows are still $1,000,000 per week so it is a fixed expense if 10- people or 350,000 people show up. But if the crown total is now only 100,000 people per week with the reduced attendance, then the same $1,000,000 line item is now being split by only 100,000 guests. Now the per cap price is $10.00 per person. As you add up fixed expenses, the per capita cost goes up with reduced attendance.

Disney has already stated that the parks need to remain cash flow positive, so if you have the same variable per cap costs, but now have higher per cap costs, then something has to give to keep per cap cost below per cap revenue.

The same goes for add-on income like parties. If a party had 30,000 guests pre-covid but will only have 12,000 guests post-covid then the per cap cost of the party is almost triple. So you either have to cut the expense for the party, raise the price of the party (not a good choice in the current economy), or cancel the party. Disney seems to have found a compromise where they have cancelled the party but moved some of the experiences to the day guests.

(note, all numbers and costs are hypothetical, but just as valid for the math)
And that doesn't even consider the dramatic increase in cost for cleaning and sanitization of the surfaces throughout the parks including restaurants and attractions.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
And that doesn't even consider the dramatic increase in cost for cleaning and sanitization of the surfaces throughout the parks including restaurants and attractions.
Which in turn will bleed to the larger economy. I wish I had bought plexi suppliers before this pandemic. Those and PPE makers.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Like many, I attached so many GOOD feelings to WDW, for many years. I first went in 1976, for the Bicentennial. So as a young kid I took to that feeling of home. As with many things, life has changed. And with this, ALL things in America are connected with Politics, which of course, is based on Power/control dictated by Profit. It took some time for me. But so many still need to RETURN to reality. Let's all remember that WDW is FANTASY. A place to ESCAPE Reality. A break for the mind heart and soul. A pleasant pressure release. But Disney the Parks and CORP, are nowhere near being what Walt created and put his heart and soul into. And unfortunately, the head offices are filled, now, with people that are extremely corrupt and Anti American. Unfortunately. Many of you, are going to have to do, what I did some time ago. Reevaluate your love of Disney, and what it has now become. Which is anything but a Family orientated company. The FAMILY part of anything, comes from a Family.
Why do you believe Disney is anti-American and not family oriented?
Let’s grab popcorn and watch the thread get closed!

Also, I agree that WDW isn’t family-oriented anymore, primarily because it focuses on shamelessly overpriced food, resorts, and experiences that are significantly inferior to the WDW of 1971–2015.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Let’s grab popcorn and watch the thread get closed!

Also, I agree that WDW isn’t family-oriented anymore, primarily because it focuses on shamelessly overpriced food, resorts, and experiences that are significantly inferior to the WDW of 1971–2015.
So higher prices on food and resorts, and lower quality (in your opinion) experiences make Disney not family-oriented? Those factors seem to go to affordability and value. I think of something entirely different when someone says a vacation spot is not "family oriented." Kind of like Vegas or a place that concentrates more on adult-type entertainment. In any event, I didn't think the poster I was replying to was referring to Disney being too expensive when they said it's no longer family-oriented.

I think there's a difference between family-oriented and family-friendly. A place may be aimed at families in content but priced over what a typical family would find affordable.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
You willingly (as in no one forced you to) purchase the Disney Dining Plan every trip and then you wonder why they continue to charge more for less?
Agreed...nothing has encouraged them to jack prices like the dining plan...though they have come out with some doozies since as well
Regarding the park reservation system...personally, I believe it will be eliminated as soon as social distancing is eliminated and capacity is increased back to normal levels. The idea of having to commit to a park months in advance is insane. While you had to already do that with fastpasses, you could always just change your mind that day and wing it. Not so with the park reservation system.
They didn’t have enough capacity with the fastpasses...something will have to be implemented and it doesn’t appear the bands and tiers are going to be the play
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Agreed...nothing has encouraged them to jack prices like the dining plan...though they have come out with some doozies since as well

They didn’t have enough capacity with the fastpasses...something will have to be implemented and it doesn’t appear the bands and tiers are going to be the play
We used the dining plan when it first came out - we didn't pay for it and appetizers and gratuities were included, so it was convenient. We also bought it once when our kids invited their significant others, who had never been to WDW and would have been shocked out of their appetites by the menu prices if we didn't tell them everything was "included." We find it expensive and wasteful and hate the impact it's had on dining quality, but people who are not familiar with Disney are drawn to its convenience and some assume it saves them money. I sat next to a guy at an event once and he started talking about his trip to WDW. He told me about all the great places they ate and how the dining plan saved them 40%. I figured I'd never see him again, so felt no obligation to question that nonsense, but clearly he didn't have a clue about the Disney dining plans.

I completely agree about the fastpasses. We visit often enough that I've been able to adapt to whatever system WDW puts in place. Some work better for us than others, and we vacation differently now than we did years ago. Now we often hit the water parks or pools in the mornings, then head for the parks after lunch or in the early evening. So having FP+ allows us to reserve the headliners like FOP, SDD and such without having to be in the parks early. I know some people here are experts on capacity and systems and can explain it better than I can, but the tiers became necessary and made planning a major pain in the you-know-what even for someone who prides herself on flexibility. I agree they need to fix this system even if they end up instituting something that doesn't work as well for me.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
We used the dining plan when it first came out - we didn't pay for it and appetizers and gratuities were included, so it was convenient. We also bought it once when our kids invited their significant others, who had never been to WDW and would have been shocked out of their appetites by the menu prices if we didn't tell them everything was "included." We find it expensive and wasteful and hate the impact it's had on dining quality, but people who are not familiar with Disney are drawn to its convenience and some assume it saves them money. I sat next to a guy at an event once and he started talking about his trip to WDW. He told me about all the great places they ate and how the dining plan saved them 40%. I figured I'd never see him again, so felt no obligation to question that nonsense, but clearly he didn't have a clue about the Disney dining plans.

I completely agree about the fastpasses. We visit often enough that I've been able to adapt to whatever system WDW puts in place. Some work better for us than others, and we vacation differently now than we did years ago. Now we often hit the water parks or pools in the mornings, then head for the parks after lunch or in the early evening. So having FP+ allows us to reserve the headliners like FOP, SDD and such without having to be in the parks early. I know some people here are experts on capacity and systems and can explain it better than I can, but the tiers became necessary and made planning a major pain in the you-know-what even for someone who prides herself on flexibility. I agree they need to fix this system even if they end up instituting something that doesn't work as well for me.
40% savings? That's laughable!

We had to try hard to save money (and again, it wasn't much) on the plan when our kids were both under 10 (and we brought home a SLEW of snacks). Even if we broke even, we would have gotten it before just for the convenience factor, but now that our oldest is over 10, it's just not worth it. I miss when Deluxe included tips...it really made trips feel all-inclusive.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
We used the dining plan when it first came out - we didn't pay for it and appetizers and gratuities were included, so it was convenient. We also bought it once when our kids invited their significant others, who had never been to WDW and would have been shocked out of their appetites by the menu prices if we didn't tell them everything was "included." We find it expensive and wasteful and hate the impact it's had on dining quality, but people who are not familiar with Disney are drawn to its convenience and some assume it saves them money. I sat next to a guy at an event once and he started talking about his trip to WDW. He told me about all the great places they ate and how the dining plan saved them 40%. I figured I'd never see him again, so felt no obligation to question that nonsense, but clearly he didn't have a clue about the Disney dining plans.

I completely agree about the fastpasses. We visit often enough that I've been able to adapt to whatever system WDW puts in place. Some work better for us than others, and we vacation differently now than we did years ago. Now we often hit the water parks or pools in the mornings, then head for the parks after lunch or in the early evening. So having FP+ allows us to reserve the headliners like FOP, SDD and such without having to be in the parks early. I know some people here are experts on capacity and systems and can explain it better than I can, but the tiers became necessary and made planning a major pain in the you-know-what even for someone who prides herself on flexibility. I agree they need to fix this system even if they end up instituting something that doesn't work as well for me.
You know...I find myself all of a sudden increasingly agreeing with you...

“Year of the weird” continues 👍🏻

Dining plan is a crutch...a mental one imho

And I think Disney didn’t like to show how little capacity and flex they had on the MDE...
It’s hard for bob to tell the street they have “unlimited pricing potential” when any customer could pull up on their phone just how little was actually provided for today’s prices in real time
It’s not coincidence that a whole ton of construction started right after the system was completed...it wasn’t mako or diagon alley that caused a $5,000,000,000 cash lay.
 
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Kkar

Member
I just heard confirmation that the Grand Floridian Orchestra is no more. They're playing a few shows at DHS for the rest of this month, then they're done. I realize that paying an orchestra is expensive and Disney is looking to cut costs, but they were largely what made visiting the GF so unique. We used to spend an entire evening at the GF at least once per trip, (pre-dinner drinks at Mizners, dinner at Citrico's, Narcoosee's or V&A, then back at Mizners for after-dinner cordials) and often brought friends with us. We literally spent thousands there over the years. But between no more orchestra and the destruction of Mizners lounge, we really have no reason to return.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I just heard confirmation that the Grand Floridian Orchestra is no more. They're playing a few shows at DHS for the rest of this month, then they're done. I realize that paying an orchestra is expensive and Disney is looking to cut costs, but they were largely what made visiting the GF so unique. We used to spend an entire evening at the GF at least once per trip, (pre-dinner drinks at Mizners, dinner at Citrico's, Narcoosee's or V&A, then back at Mizners for after-dinner cordials) and often brought friends with us. We literally spent thousands there over the years. But between no more orchestra and the destruction of Mizners lounge, we really have no reason to return.
Disney’s philosophy is not to believe you.

They don’t feel “touches” has monetary value.

So look where those places you listed are now:
V&A’s has risen 300% in price in 20 years...and is not to the same standards

The other restaurants have lowered quality and risen in price tailored around the mass market dining plan.

Mizners has an IP overlay 🙄...just...couldn’t...not...do...it.

And the orchestra fell into the “nobody will miss it” category for them.


But people will book...they will buy resell DVC points straight from Disney for more money and less time...
And nobody will batt an eye
 

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