What's so bad about DCA

[JLW11Hi]

Originally posted by pheneix
>>>hey pheniex what do you mean about an old man's tower of terror<<<

No, I mean a "Poor Man's TOT," as in something a poor man can afford.

yes. For all we know, it could be ten times better than the one at MGM, but since it will cost less, that would be a real challenge. With a "drop" ride already in the park, I would hope they use plenty of "wow" special effects and interesting designs in their TOT, because without the elevator moving across the floor, it would just be another Maliboomer, only hosted by Rod Serling.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by mktiggerman
Merlin,

have you been to DCA?

all I will ever ask you is for constructive criticism, and nothing more. If you're gonna say something stinks, and why it stinks, the please... if you're not gonna say anything good, then offer a suggestion on how to improve it. Disney does in fact read these boards, and any little hint you could drop would perhaps help them get a clue.

LOL! Yes, I've been there more times than I care to admit (which means that I'm more than qualified to criticize it, but it also means I've been suckered into giving the park way too many chances to redeem itself).

So how would I suggest improving DCA? Hmmmm.... Well, my suggestions would probably be considered impractical by any Disney execs who might happen to read this post, but since you asked, here's what I would suggest:

First, completely revamp Paradise Pier. I have not issue with the "beach culture" theme and I would keep California Screamin', but get rid of the midway and all the amusement rides. Put in some sort of virtual reality surfing attraction and fill the area with the "streetmosphere" concept (i.e. Have performers similar to what you would see at Venice Beach, only keep it family friendly). Put in some sort of elaborate sand-castle concept (perhaps a mini golf course or a kids' play area). Put in a beach-themed sit down restaurant (call it the Cliff House) and also an informal fast-food place that would be similar to what you see at places like Venice Beach and Mission Beach in San Diego.

Second, re-do Soarin'. It is the best attraction concept in the park, but the "show" quality is more like an Iwerks ride than a Disney attraction. Have better transitions from one scene to the next and make it more immersive (i.e. more scents, temperature differences, etc).

Third, spice up the main entrance. I realize they're trying to make it look like a California postcard, but most people don't get that. Something more dramatic like you're walking past Half Dome or through a redwood tree or something. Or keep the Golden Gate Bridge, but for heaven's sake make it at least look like a scaled down version of the actual thing. I laugh every time I look at this one. Proportionately, it looks nothing like the real Golden Gate. It is embarassing.

Fourth, get rid of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. It's not like it is a great attraction anyway and as I've stated many times now (with still no rebuttal from anyone), it has NOTHING to do with California. On that same note, get rid of Flik's Fun Fair for the same reason. I'm sure it will be a really cute area, but it is not a California theme.

Fifth, keep Electrical Parade, but make all the floats California landmarks.

Sixth, put in a section (complete with one or two major attractions) that celebrate the California desert. One of the attractions could be similar to the old Mine Train Thru Nature's Wonderland, only it could go through hot springs, Death Valley and a ghost town. It could be heavy on animatronics and other special effects (how about a mirage that appears and disappears?).

Seventh, demonstrate there is soooooo much more to Hollywood than animated characters, Muppets and ABC Soap Opera stars. If they were going to duplicate something from MGM, an updated version of the Great Movie Ride would have been the most appropriate. And why not do something really cool like a film archive or something that preserves the dignity of our motion picture heritage? It could be something that is co-sponsored by AMPAAS or AFI perhaps.

Eighth, more "California Crazy" architecture in the buildings.

Ninth, a thrill ride that takes you deep down into a gold mine shaft.

Tenth, an attraction dedicated to our folklore and legends (i.e. Bigfoot)

Those are just a few for starters. If I think of more, I'll post them.

 

[Tigggrl]

So you want Mini golf and a Train Ride???
I don't think so! Those attractions you can find all over the place, Knotts has a mine train ride, go there...
Millionaire is going, bit it DOES have a place in the backlot, as many gameshows are filmed in Cali, and it fits in just as well as it does at MGM...I personally LOVE the attraction...always have...
And did you know that California is the largest Farming state?? and that Bugs life fits in with the whole Bountiful Farm area??? Fliks will be a great tie in to the farm area, and tie in also to the movie, which I think is great! As far as Soarin goes, its fine just as it is...So fine in fact, I have seen on this board where People wuld like to see it duplicated to fit in with some of the countries at Epcot....
I enjoy the boardwalk area...the overall feel is wonderful and there are always lots of people playing those games you want to see gone....Brings back memories for me of another time...and the games are FUN!
If I want Virtual Reality Ill go to Disney Quest or a lame arcade...give me atmosphere and live interaction anyday...There are Streetmosphere performers in the other areas of the park, and right now you can find Lilo and stitch hanging out and playing to a big crowd with their music and games too....
I could have sworn you had said you hadnt been there...maybe you need to go back....you should appreciate all the effort and work that goes into this park...and all of the plans they have for future attractions....Maybe we will get RnR coaster...maybe not...who knows??? I for one could care less...I love it just as it is...Improvements are not necessary to keep me going back!

 

[DCA Fan]

Quite frankly, I really WANT Millionaire to stay. I mean, it's close to where I live so I can go play the show over and over until I get in the hotseat (which hasn't happened yet).

And sorry, mini golf just doesn't cut the Disney attraction list for me.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Tigggrl
So you want Mini golf and a Train Ride???
I don't think so! Those attractions you can find all over the place, Knotts has a mine train ride, go there...

I would like to think that any train ride Disney were to build would be considerably more elaborate and impressive than the one at Knott's (although I've actually always considered that ride to be one of the best ones there). Besides, I love trains (and so did Walt for those of you to whom that matters).

Millionaire is going, bit it DOES have a place in the backlot, as many gameshows are filmed in Cali, and it fits in just as well as it does at MGM...I personally LOVE the attraction...always have...

Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. True, lots of gameshows are taped in California, but Millionaire is very obviously not one of them. At the beginning of the show, they make a point of showing you that it is taped in New York. And call me a purist, but Disney promoted this park as being ABOUT the Golden State. If pointing out that "many gameshows" are taped here is the best you can do, I think you've helped me prove my point.

And did you know that California is the largest Farming state?? and that Bugs life fits in with the whole Bountiful Farm area??? Fliks will be a great tie in to the farm area, and tie in also to the movie, which I think is great!

Obviously California has an insect population, as does everywhere else on the planet. I see the point you're trying to make, but as with the Millionaire example, I think it is a bit of a stretch.

As far as Soarin goes, its fine just as it is...So fine in fact, I have seen on this board where People wuld like to see it duplicated to fit in with some of the countries at Epcot....

Read those posts again. People aren't saying they want Soarin' itself to be in Epcot. They're saying a Soarin'-like attraction. And I agree wholeheartedly with that. If you re-read MY posts, you'll see that I am not criticizing the CONCEPT of the attraction. I think that aspect of it is great. My issue is with the execution of it. It makes me think the Imagineers have lost their gift of storytelling. And speaking of posts that people have left (since you seem to put stock in them), have you not also noticed that others have criticized Soarin' for the same (or similar) reasons that I have stated?

I enjoy the boardwalk area...the overall feel is wonderful and there are always lots of people playing those games you want to see gone....Brings back memories for me of another time...and the games are FUN!

So as long as the games are making money, it doesn't matter that they are tacky? I take it you're more of a Pressler fan than a Walt fan.

If I want Virtual Reality Ill go to Disney Quest or a lame arcade...give me atmosphere and live interaction anyday...There are Streetmosphere performers in the other areas of the park, and right now you can find Lilo and stitch hanging out and playing to a big crowd with their music and games too....

When you read my virtual reality suggestion, you didn't seriously think I was referring to the kind found in arcades did you? I guess I needed to be more clear. I meant something along the lines of a CAVE 3D technology. And as far as streetmosphere performers, I wasn't referring to the costumed Disney characters walking around. I was talking about people doing stunts and performances like you would see at the beach (For example, at Venice Beach there is a guy who juggles chainsaws. I'm obviously not suggesting something dangerous like that, but something unique and interesting).

I could have sworn you had said you hadnt been there...

Nope. However on another thread, someone told me that Tokyo DisneySea was just as "carnival-like" as DcA. I replied that I had never been to Tokyo DisneySea and was, therefore, not qualified to comment. Perhaps that is what you are thinking of. On that note, if I had never been to DCA, I would not be criticizing it.

maybe you need to go back....you should appreciate all the effort and work that goes into this park...and all of the plans they have for future attractions....Maybe we will get RnR coaster...maybe not...who knows???

I've been there numerous times and the park has yet to change my opinion of it. As far as appreciating effort, I DO appreciate effort when there is evidence of it. But that is precisely my main issue with DCA. I don't get a sense that any sincere effort or imagination went into creating it. Almost everything there is a carbon copy of something you can find elsewhere. If the park shows major improvements and starts living up to the cutting edge reputation that Disney parks have, then I will be the first to support it. And I'd like to believe that may one day happen. But until then, and as I've stated before, I think Disney should be embarassed for trying to convince people that DCA is up to par. And as much as I love Disney, I'm not going to say I like it just because it IS Disney.

I for one could care less...I love it just as it is...Improvements are not necessary to keep me going back!

It is sad that improvements aren't necessary to keep you going back. Thank goodness Walt Disney knew that most of the general public didn't feel that way. One of the things that thrilled him about Disneyland was that he COULD continually improve it. I'm guessing Pressler and Eisner wish that more people thought the way you do. Then maybe DCA would be a success.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by DCA Fan
And sorry, mini golf just doesn't cut the Disney attraction list for me.

Okay, I have to admit that was not one of my better ideas. Please feel free to take a "virtual wrecking ball" to that one.

 

[Natelox]

personally, DCA is themed quite well. All of its themed sections are parts of California. Paradise Pier has some good rides, and they were designed to be like carnaval rides becuase thats what cali beach front parks are like.

the golden gat bridge looks silly? well duh! disney does tend to exagerat there theming, but if it did look serious like the real one does, it wouldn't have the full disney feel.

>The only major new thing DCA is getting is a poor man's Tower of Terror.<

WHAT? if u've ridden TOT, u'll know its an awsome ride, very original IMO. I'm very happy to see that DCA is getting it.

>It has also been built the EXACT SAME WAY in dozens of parks across the world. Heck, Universal built one and actually made a story to go along with it.<

that awnserd the question why Disney put it in DCA. its a ride u see at other parks, and thats what Paradise peir is themed to,

 

[pheneix]

>>>WHAT? if u've ridden TOT, u'll know its an awsome ride<<<

Yes, the original attraction at MGM is a an awesome ride. However, the budget version going into DCA is a bare bones ride, with only a few new show scenes and a half decent loading area (and even those will probably be cut out before it opens) to make up for it's vast shortcomings.

 

[CalDisney]

Originally posted by pheneix
>>>WHAT? if u've ridden TOT, u'll know its an awsome ride<<<

Yes, the original attraction at MGM is a an awesome ride. However, the budget version going into DCA is a bare bones ride, with only a few new show scenes and a half decent loading area (and even those will probably be cut out before it opens) to make up for it's vast shortcomings.

HHmmm

We will see about that!!

 

[JLW11Hi]

Originally posted by Merlin
It is sad that improvements aren't necessary to keep you going back. Thank goodness Walt Disney knew that most of the general public didn't feel that way. One of the things that thrilled him about Disneyland was that he COULD continually improve it. I'm guessing Pressler and Eisner wish that more people thought the way you do. Then maybe DCA would be a success.

Yes, it is good for Disney to get the hint that people don't like the things they did wrong, but you know that pretty much all of us on the board are Disney fans, and we generally dont need things to change, although I personally agree that it is very much needed at Disney. But you are asking us to do something that goes against what we truly enjoy, and what I personally look forward to every year. Yes, if Disney completely stops improving parks and just throws in a few cheap attractions every year or so (pheneix, feel free to make a joke out of what I just said ), but for now, I have tons of things to see at the Disney resorts yet.

The way I visit Disney, it is almost like Television around Christmas time. They usually have the specials that are brand new, and then the classics, like the Grinch, Charlie Brown, Garfield, all those classic Christmas shows that we (well, me anywho) still enjoy. We are able to do this because we only see them once a year, and they don't get redundant as if you are watching them every other week, (like some of you do Disney.)

But I love change, and I just hope that my love for going to Disney parks every year isn't helping that not happen.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by JLW11Hi


Yes, it is good for Disney to get the hint that people don't like the things they did wrong, but you know that pretty much all of us on the board are Disney fans, and we generally dont need things to change, although I personally agree that it is very much needed at Disney. But you are asking us to do something that goes against what we truly enjoy, and what I personally look forward to every year. Yes, if Disney completely stops improving parks and just throws in a few cheap attractions every year or so (pheneix, feel free to make a joke out of what I just said ), but for now, I have tons of things to see at the Disney resorts yet.

The way I visit Disney, it is almost like Television around Christmas time. They usually have the specials that are brand new, and then the classics, like the Grinch, Charlie Brown, Garfield, all those classic Christmas shows that we (well, me anywho) still enjoy. We are able to do this because we only see them once a year, and they don't get redundant as if you are watching them every other week, (like some of you do Disney.)

But I love change, and I just hope that my love for going to Disney parks every year isn't helping that not happen.

I agree with everything you're saying as it pertains to Disneyland and any of the parks at WDW. But DCA is not up to the same caliber as all the other parks. I just find it hard to believe that someone would say they don't care if it never improves and they would continue going anyway. To me, that isn't being a Disney fan. That is blindly buying something just because it has the Disney name on it. What if Disney were to buy Knott's Berry Farm and then change the name to Disney's Berry Farm? What if they took it a step further and changed the names of some of the rides to be named after Disney movies? Would you suddenly "love" it and go as often as you could because it was suddenly "magical"? Even if they didn't change a single thing about it other than the names of stuff? I think a lot of people on these boards would do just that simply because it would all the sudden be Disney. That may be a bit of an extreme example, but I don't think it is too far off from how people have reacted to DCA. In my opinion, that is an insult to the "real" Disney. I mean, what incentive is there for Disney to be imaginative and original if Disney "fans" rave about how they love things like Paradise Pier?

 

[3IAlienKid]

I read on someone else's post a while back the reason they didn't like DCA -- because there's no magic. I agree. Disney's parks work well because they all transport you to new worlds. DCA transports you to California. Oh, wait a minute, we're already in California. Drew Carey (at his show at DCA's Hyperion Theater no less) hit it on the head when he jokingly asked why would Disney build a park about California IN California. It's an odd choice for the theme.

At DL Resort, over 60% of the guests are Southern Californians (compared to WDW where only 30% of the guests are local). Most of us SoCal residents would much rather go to DL anytime over DCA. All my non-Disney-fan SoCal friends I've spoken to have no desire to visit DCA, mainly because, as they say, they've already seen the real thing.

Keep in mind, us SoCal people don't spend 3-5 consecutive days at DLR like NoCal or out-of-state guests would. When we visit DLR, we start the day at home, and at the end of the day end up at home. DLR is not a vacation, because we live less than an hour away. For most of us, the thought of vacationing (and spending money on a hotel room) less than an hour away is silly, Disneyland or not. So we're talking about only one day for our trips. Since one day tends to limit us to one park, we more often choose Disneyland.

If you don't live near DLR, just put yourself in our shoes. Imagine you've grown up w/ Disneyland in your own state all your life. Then next door Disney builds a new park themed to your state. Since you're only going to spend one Saturday at the new "Resort" and you've already seen most of the real things your state, which will you choose?

 

[DLMAGICDARREN]

So is Epcot un-magical because 50% of that park represents actual countries, and not a magical place? Do you walk into the American Adventure and say "Oh wow big deal, I'm already in America"?

The only parks to really provide this magical experaince is the Magic Kingdom, which is the only common park to all 4 Disney worldwide resorts, and soon to be 5, in 2006 when Hong Kong opens.

DCA is a reality based park, what failed is that they tried the California theme to intice tourists, and that never cought on as much as they hoped, so know it's the locals complaining that they don't want a park about California, since they already live in California.

What many fail to see is that the park is about experiancing all of California in a day. Locals may live there, but they can't be in both San Diego, and Lake Tahoe in the same day, making stops at San Francisco, Hollywood, and many other places. To me that is pretty magical that I can do all that in one day, something impossible in reality. You might be able to drive from point A to point B in a day, but you would not enjoy the destinations each, you would spend the day on the road.

Sorain Over California is not exactly fantasy, but it's better then any of the films in Epcot, such as Wonders of China, Le Impressions de France, or O Canada.

Grizzly River Rapids is not exactly fantasy, but neighter is Kali River Rapdis over at Animal Kingdom.

California Screamin may not be fantasy, but it's a great coaster, as is Rock N Roller Coaster, whcih is not exactly fantasy.

I'll just never buy this arguement that DCA is bad becuase it's theme is California, what's bad is that since the park was hurting since day one, they have done to many quick fixes by dropping in WDW clones that made no sense, or adding more silly carnival rides in a kiddie land section that has no connection to California. Disney used to create magical family rides, like It's A Small World, Peter Pan's Flight, Storybook Canal Boats, etc.

What DCA needs is a good look at, and a 5 year plan to turn it around, hopefully Jay Rasulo, Paul Presslor's replacement, will do that for the DLR resort, as well as manage the other parks and businesses.

Animal Kingdom is a reality based park, based on animals, Disney MGM Studios is a reality based park, based on how they make movies and televesion, Epcot is a reality based park based on Discovery and world culture.

Now DCA may have faults, but it's not that the theme is a bad one, the real fualts in my opinion are how they didn't stick to it, and added such California themeless things like Millionaire, Blast and Flciks Fun Fair.

 

[3IAlienKid]

Originally posted by DLMAGICDARREN
So is Epcot unmagical because 50% of that park represents actual countries?

I'd considered addressing this w/ my first post, and I can see why you're bringing this up, but I think you're missing my point. As Southern Californians (which I realize most of the people on these boards are probably not), many of us find the California theme boring because we live here. Would Epcot be boring for us? No, of course not. We are "transported" to many nations, most of which we've never visited before. Is New Orleans Square at Disneyland boring to me just because I've been to New Orleans for Mardi Gras? No, because I don't live there and I don't get out there often.

I realize many people feel only MK "transports" you anywhere magical and I can see that, but I don't feel the same. I think every park (except DCA) has magic, even Disney Studios (after all, I don't work for a Hollywood Studio and the whole moviemaking process really is a bit of a fantasy to me, you know? I get stars in my eyes when I let myself get sucked into the idea of the glamour and glitz, whether that's actually true of Hollywood or not -- I think DS does a great job w/ the "magic" of Tinseltown w/ Hollywood and Sunset Blvds, no?).

Again, I realize if you're not from SoCal, it may be difficult for you to understand this, but it makes a big difference as far as the attendance problems at DCA. As I stated before, over 60% of DCA's guests are SoCal folks who likely feel the way I do, that the theme is boring. I really believe that's one of the main reasons the place is failing, because no one from around here is even going for the first time. It's not even that the Imagineers haven't done a great job at DCA. They have, but only within the confines of what they were given to work with, which again, to me, is a boring theme.

 

[DLMAGICDARREN]

Actually I was born and raised in California, grew up at Disneyland. I did not move to Florida until 1998.

I still visit the DLR resort on an average of every 3-4 months, so I "do" get your point, and still considering myself a native Californiain, respectully do not agree with it.

So at Epcot you are transported to many nations, likewise with DCA, you are transported to many areas within the state. I realize Epcot no doubt, offers you more miles to cover, since you can travel from Mexico, to Norway, to China, to Germany, to Italy, to Morocco, to USA, to Japan, to France, To United Kingdom, and to Canada, in one day, but you also skip many countires in between all of them.

DCA is similar in that you cover many of the areas of California, and I myself, being from Calmarillo (loosly represented in Soarin Over California), but considering on a major level that to be the LA area, adore the LA floats represented in Eureka. To me it's a matter to shine my pride in the part of the state I'm from, and appreciate that California is stilll full of many cultures I did not grow up with, when I look at the entire state.

So I really don't get your analagy of how Epcot World Showcase works, but DCA does not, Epcot simply covers more miles in between countries, while DCA concentrates on as many of the specific areas to California, and points out they are about as diverse, as different countries, throughout the world.

Everybody is entiteld to their opinions of course, butr I don't see how just because I live in say San Diego, that the San Francisco elements of the park, are any less magical then the Disney MGM Studios are unmagical, simply because one does not work in the movie industry. Likewise if I lived in Northen California, I'd be just as enticed to DCA's Hollywood backlot, as I would the Disney MGM Studios.

I still say it's the lack of sticking to the theme, there is no debate the park could not improve, but I really don't get how you can say just because one is from California, that a California theme is un-magical. Is the Animal Kingdom un-magical, just because I grow up with animals? Is the Tokyo Disney-Sea theme un-magical, if I was serviced in the navy (not saying I was, just making a point).