L.C. Clench
Well-Known Member
Is it? Why would they have invested almost 4 billion in a ride rationing system to try and prevent people leaving property if that was the case?
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News WDW Resorts to add fees for parking
- Thread starter The Visionary Soul
- Start date
Because the WDW management has decided that they simply do not want to invest in additional park capacity in Florida. So it was an analytic driven decision in order to maximize the dollars they could separate from the number of guests that they were willing to deal with. The number of hotel rooms is not a measure of growth since I would argue that without the theme parks the hotel demand would be significantly less that it is.
I believe the fact that Disney has left money on the table can be observed by looking at the success of the Boy Wizard up north. Universal was a day trip before this now it is a destination by itself. Not quite on par with Disney in scope but approaching it. All of it was vacation money that was going to be spent somewhere and Disney did not want to make the moves necessary to capture it.
The Disney way of growth: More per capita guest spending. Little-to-no increase in park capacity. "Cost containment". Stock buybacks.
It'll all be laid out in Iger's forthcoming "book". It could really just be a two-sided index card, but apparently he feels the need to add a bunch of fluff, like his "thoughts" on all things Disney. I'm sure he'll toot his own horn, but only a couple of hundred times, he's a modest and humble guy, after all.
It'll all be laid out in Iger's forthcoming "book". It could really just be a two-sided index card, but apparently he feels the need to add a bunch of fluff, like his "thoughts" on all things Disney. I'm sure he'll toot his own horn, but only a couple of hundred times, he's a modest and humble guy, after all.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Except that is not true.Forgot to add this, so wanted to be sure you saw it.Between 1971 and 1989 - 18 years - Disney added exactly ZERO resorts. I guess they were only about the money back then, too.
So here are the official opening years for each resort:
Value
Sports - 1994
Music - 1994
Movies - 1999
Pop - 2003
Art of Animation - 2012
Moderate
Caribbean Beach - 1988
Coronado Springs - 1997
Port Orleans Riverside - 1992
Port Orleans French Quarter - 1991
Fort Wilderness Cabins - 1971
Fort Wilderness Campsites - 1971
Deluxe
Animal Kingdon Lodge - 2001
Beach Club - 1990
Boardwalk Inn - 1996
Contemporary - 1971
Grand Floridian - 1988
Polynesian - 1971
Wilderness Lodge - 1994
Yacht Club - 1990
DVC
Animal Kingdom Villas - 2007
Bay Lake Tower - 2009
Beach Club Villas - 2002
Boardwalk Villas - 1996
Grand Floridian Villas - 2013
Old Key West - 1991
Polynesian Villas - 2015
Saratoga Springs - 2004
Wilderness Lodge - 2000
Please point out the resort that opened after 1971 and before 1990.
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Your list is wrong. It has the opening years of Caribbean Beach and The Grand Floridian wrong, 1988 not 1998. It also ignores The Golf Resort and the Villas at Lake Buena Vista. Hotel Plaza Boulevard should count for something along with the Tishman deal.
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
They don't want large attendance growth on either coast at this point. They have found out that people don't like it when its always ridiculously crowded, so they have raised prices to cut down attendance while increasing revenue. And the last quarter was down 1% after factoring out weather, etc but increasing revenue. They'll take that every quarter at this point. They'd especially take it in CA. Relatively flat attendance but more revenue is their dream.
Kamikaze
Well-Known Member
CBR and GF opened in 88 not 98, I'd imagine a typo was made along the way at some point from whoever made that list originally. Its still 17 years between resorts.
The other ones you mention aren't Disney properties so they shouldn't be on that list.
Disone
Well-Known Member
There was little to no Disney hotel growth from opening until 1988. Typo's aside, his point is accurate. Swan, Dolphin, and Hotel Plaza were non-Disney, and Disney was not adding rooms to its inventory. Golf resort was a renamed to the Disney Inn, but still no change in the room inventory. So I can understand those as non-factors.
They were leaving Money, excessive amounts, on the table like fools back then, and suffering financially for it. Eisner/Wells Fixed this and is well documented.
My apologies for those. Still, 17 years. And no, none of the Hotel Boulevard hotels, nor the Swolphin count, as we were only talking about Disney hotels.
Plus they were still an amusement park company running a couple of hotels on the side. Now it seems they're practically a lodging chain with theme parks and other activities as amenities.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Golf Resort was new and Disney owned. The Villas were also new and Disney owned. Hotel Plaza Blvd is still property developed at the behest of Disney. You don't say the Coke building isn't part of Disney Springs even though it was built and run by The Coca-Cola Company. Then there are all of the projects that fell through because a vastly smaller company lacked resources, hardly a concern today.
Ah, yes -- the Golf Resort/Disney Inn opened in 1973 and became Shades of Green in 1994... stayed there in '88 -- rooms were (and still are) the size of a Monorail Deluxe but were priced somewhat lower than the Monorail resorts.
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Those hotels were not built by Disney, which is, again, what we were talking about. Disney didn't build the Coke building either! They didn't pay for the Paddlefish remodel, or the Boathouse, or the Edison, or Morimoto. A non argument there.
RobidaFlats
Well-Known Member
For the sake of completeness, the aforementioned Village Resort opened in 1985.
RobidaFlats
Well-Known Member
For the record, the cabins actually didn't exist until 1986, Prior to the opening of the "Wilderness Homes" it was only camping and RV sites.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The Disney owned Golf Resort/Disney Inn was not sold until 1994. The Villas were Disney from the moment they opened until they were demolished. There was also expansion of the Polynesian Village and Fort Wilderness. But yes, if you ignore that and the whole larger context of a massive construction project, your point kind of stands.
The Villas themselves were built earlier before being organized into a single Resort.
flynnibus
Premium Member
And the answer to that is CAPACITY. A car dealership doesn't just keep raising prices because they are too busy on the weekends. They grow the business to handle new demand.. and constantly work to generate new demand.
Which is what I've said is happening.. revenue growth through pricing, not necessarily true growth. And you can only squeeze so much. And once you get to that maximum price... growth through new customers is that much harder.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I'm gonna go all @ParentsOf4 and drop some numbers from the 2016 10K in here to try to see how much playing with the numbers impacts the movement in occupancy.
Per the 10K:
- Domestic theme park attendance was down 1%
- Domestic hotel occupancy was up year over year from 87% to 89%
- 2016 available room nights = 10,382,000
- 2015 available room nights = 10,644,000
- 2016 occupied room nights = 9,240,000 (10,382,000 X 89%)
- 2015 occupied room nights = 9,260,000 (10,644,000 X 87%)
Now if we look at the decrease in available room nights it's approximately 700 rooms taken out of service for the full year. A portion of those are probably at Wilderness Lodge as they are being converted to DVC. The rest are just out of service for other reasons. I think BC/YC had a pretty major refurb in 2016 so that could be part of it too. They definitely could also be playing with the numbers here and boosting occupancy by taking rooms out of service.
Edit: It was brought to my attention that there were 53 weeks in fiscal year 2015 vs the standard 52 in 2016 which probably explains the bulk of the decrease in both attendance and available room nights.
To be exact if you take the weekly run rate for 2105 and convert that to a standard 52 week year (total divided by 53 multiplied by 52) the available rooms nights in 2015 would have been 10,433,000 and the occupied room nights would have been 9,085,000.
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