News WDW Food and Beverage Price Increases 10/1/2019

[MickeyLuv'r]

There are two easy ways to prove what it was.

Huh?

I think you misunderstood.

I was mostly commenting on the nature of the whole discussion.

If I claim I had X experience at WDW, I am likely to have:
1. one person defend me
2. one person tell me X experience didn't happen
3. one person tell me X experience was my fault

The subject could be food poisoning, a bad resort experience, a long wait at GS. Sadly it doesn't really matter what the X is, or how many medical details I provide.

 

[erasure fan1]

I believe you are confusing value with quality. Quality is a standard, not an opinion. Value is an opinion. If you feel you get a decent meal that you enjoy at Olive Garden for the price you pay that's "value". The quality of the food doesn't change based on who is eating it.

I get what you are saying but quality, especially in food, can be subjective. The reason is it is all based on taste. 2 people can start out with the exact same ingredients and end up with one item tasting like shoes and the other is delicious. Just because something isn't made from the highest grade food doesn't mean it can't be a quality item. Quality ingredients with bad quality prep, equals bad quality. Either way, Disneys food quality/value has gone backwards.

 

[VaderTron]

I get what you are saying but quality, especially in food, can be subjective. The reason is it is all based on taste. 2 people can start out with the exact same ingredients and end up with one item tasting like shoes and the other is delicious. Just because something isn't made from the highest grade food doesn't mean it can't be a quality item. Quality ingredients with bad quality prep, equals bad quality. Either way, Disneys food quality/value has gone backwards.

And now you have identified "preference". Again, quality is not an opinion. It's a set standard determined by a qualified inspector or agency. Some people prefer lower quality goods. That doesn't mean what is considered low quality is now higher quality just because someone likes it.

Listen, I understand your points, I'm just trying to help you see that you are using the wrong term to make them. Quality has nothing to do with whether something is well-liked or not. Some may claim that those with "good taste" prefer high quality items, but that too is just an opinion. Some people like fast-food hamburgers better than a steakhouse hand-ground Angus Prime beef burger. That's their preference. But the the steakhouse hand-ground burger is still higher quality than fast-food hamburgers.

 

[VaderTron]

Quality ingredients with bad quality prep, equals bad quality. Either way, Disneys food quality/value has gone backwards.

In this case, you are right in that a high quality ingredient can be ruined by low quality preparation standards. But, then again, this is the interaction of two opposing levels of quality evening out to somewhere in the middle. Let's be honest though. Disney isn't going to waste the money on high quality ingredients and allow them to be wasted by low quality prep standards. That's counterproductive to their bottom line. Marginally pleased customers eating higher priced ingredients (higher quality ingredients always cost more) does not make good fiscal sense to Disney. And if there's one thing Dis Corp pays attention to these days it's how to pad the bottom line.

 

[jpeden]

As in everything we experience when visiting WDW, it’s the frequent return guests that see the changes and more often than not, the change is for the worse in the eye of the beholder.

If you are a first timer or a less frequent visitor you are less likely to notice. Ironically, it’s the most loyal, most passionate, frequent visitors who notice the changes.

it’s happened to me; I want that one thing I really liked from a previous visit and it’s gone or changed. That’s just the way it goes.

The point you made can't be emphasized enough. I've been saying this for years now - Disney DOES NOT care about the repeat guest, or the frequent visitor. Why? They believe they already have that group hooked and that they will come to Disney regardless, because they either love the parks or have an emotional, nostalgic attraction to them.

They cater to the one and done, we are going and spending $8000 - $12,000 on this trip crowds now. That is why the upsells, parties, and other high profit margin events do so well. It used to be that they sold there was so much to do that you could keep coming back. Now, if you pay enough in upsells, events, and upcharges, you can do it all in a 5-7 day vacation. If that's so, then you don't worry that a Mickey Bar has gone from $4 to $6 or that the food quality has gone downhill at your favorite restaurant or that the buffet you paid $40 for was $25 in 2016.

 

[larryz]

There are two easy ways to prove what it was. The first, and most obvious, is to visit a clinic/doctor to find out. Second, if you have even a low-grade fever and headache with your illness it's almost guaranteed to be a stomach virus. It's very rare for food poisoning to cause that. Additionally, food poisoning usually lasts longer than 24-48 hours, which is the length of a stomach virus. A stomach virus also takes several days to develop in your system while food poisoning can occur as soon as 6 hours after eating contaminated food. That's another indication. If it's within an hour after you eat that's not likely food poisoning, or (more commonly) you actually had food poisoning from a previous meal, not the one you just ate.

The CDC seems to disagree with you.

 

[VaderTron]

The CDC seems to disagree with you.

The CDC can say whatever they want. In this case they are wrong to list fever as a "common" symptom. They aren't right about everything. As an example the CDC also advises those who are trying to reduce their chances of obesity to have dried fruit when craving something sweet as a "healthy" alternative to sugary foods. However, dried fruit has a high quantity of sugar, anywhere from 40% to 65% sugar. That's if it doesn't have added sugar like dried coconut, pineapple, or papaya which only increases the sugar percentage. What they should be recommending is fresh fruit which is much lower in total sugars and calories. The point is, CDC isn't thorough in their explanation in many areas.

If you report a suspected case of food poisoning to the Health Department a key point they would use to help determine if it was food poisoning is if the victim has a fever. If they do, it is more than likely a virus. However, they would still recommend a doctor's diagnosis as a few types of nasty bacteria that cause food poisoning can result in fever. But the most common causes of food poisoning do not result in a fever. Fever resulting from food poisoning is a sign of very specific type of bacteria that caused the food poisoning, a life-threatening/advanced case of food poisoning and/or a compromised immune system. One such example is listeria. It's much more rare and usually is the result of poor food preparation/handling techniques involving vegetables. But we still hear of recalls of food products for suspected listeria contamination every once in a while.

Another key factor will be timing. Nearly all cases of food poisoning occur many hours after eating contaminated food or even the following day. If you are doubting my suggestion that 6 hours is the earliest you would see symptoms of food poisoning that is because staph is the only bacteria capable of making you sick any sooner than that. Technically a staph infection is not always categorized as food poisoning. Why? Ask the health industry...I'm not sure why. It's possibly because staph is readily found on many people's skin and in their nose at any given time. The main way it's ingested is by touching food with unwashed hands. However, you can get a staph infection in your skin without eating food. So, maybe that's why it's a grey area of how to categorize staph infection. Staph food poisoning (much more rare) is a result of toxins produced by the staph bacteria contaminating food. The only way food can get staph toxin byproducts is if 1) staph was transposed into/on the food and allowed to grow (left outside of appropriate food holding temperatures for an extended period of time which allowed it to grow to substantial numbers and produce toxins in large quantities) or 2) someone touched the toxins from staph on their skin/nose multiple times and transferred it onto food. Staph toxins can even exist in cooked foods. The cooking process kills the staph, but any toxins that were produced remain in the food and are able to sicken those who eat it. That is why it's important to keep food at proper holding temperatures. Staph can also be transferred to ready-to-eat foods where the toxins it produces can be ingested and make us sick, too. If you get sick from the toxins caused by staph bacteria your hands are just as equally likely to be the responsible party as the transmission tools as it would be someone preparing the food. Thus, a case of staph "food poisoning" could have been a case of self-infection by touching your nose, face, or skin before/while eating, and failing to wash your hands before eating. In the end, though, staph toxins are not the most common cause of food poisoning. It's strangely rare for how common it is to find staph bacteria on our body.

Hope that extra information is useful. Enjoy the nightmare of eating your next meal while worrying if you touched your face.

 

[Disorbust]

From my understanding that most healthy people will not be effeted by staph ingestion.

I had "food poisoning" after eating at Brown Derby. At least I assume so since I was the only one violently ill and we had all been sharing water bottles all day. I know, stupid but it was so dam hot.

Or it could have been from swimming in the lazy River at TL and finding a dead rat under my feet.

 

[larryz]

The CDC can say whatever they want. In this case they are wrong to list fever as a "common" symptom. They aren't right about everything. As an example the CDC also advises those who are trying to reduce their chances of obesity to have dried fruit when craving something sweet as a "healthy" alternative to sugary foods. However, dried fruit has a high quantity of sugar, anywhere from 40% to 65% sugar. That's if it doesn't have added sugar like dried coconut, pineapple, or papaya which only increases the sugar percentage. What they should be recommending is fresh fruit which is much lower in total sugars and calories. The point is, CDC isn't thorough in their explanation in many areas.

If you report a suspected case of food poisoning to the Health Department a key point they would use to help determine if it was food poisoning is if the victim has a fever. If they do, it is more than likely a virus. However, they would still recommend a doctor's diagnosis as a few types of nasty bacteria that cause food poisoning can result in fever. But the most common causes of food poisoning do not result in a fever. Fever resulting from food poisoning is a sign of very specific type of bacteria that caused the food poisoning, a life-threatening/advanced case of food poisoning and/or a compromised immune system. One such example is listeria. It's much more rare and usually is the result of poor food preparation/handling techniques involving vegetables. But we still hear of recalls of food products for suspected listeria contamination every once in a while.

Another key factor will be timing. Nearly all cases of food poisoning occur many hours after eating contaminated food or even the following day. If you are doubting my suggestion that 6 hours is the earliest you would see symptoms of food poisoning that is because staph is the only bacteria capable of making you sick any sooner than that. Technically a staph infection is not always categorized as food poisoning. Why? Ask the health industry...I'm not sure why. It's possibly because staph is readily found on many people's skin and in their nose at any given time. The main way it's ingested is by touching food with unwashed hands. However, you can get a staph infection in your skin without eating food. So, maybe that's why it's a grey area of how to categorize staph infection. Staph food poisoning (much more rare) is a result of toxins produced by the staph bacteria contaminating food. The only way food can get staph toxin byproducts is if 1) staph was transposed into/on the food and allowed to grow (left outside of appropriate food holding temperatures for an extended period of time which allowed it to grow to substantial numbers and produce toxins in large quantities) or 2) someone touched the toxins from staph on their skin/nose multiple times and transferred it onto food. Staph toxins can even exist in cooked foods. The cooking process kills the staph, but any toxins that were produced remain in the food and are able to sicken those who eat it. That is why it's important not to keep food at proper holding temperatures. Staph can also be transferred on ready-to-eat foods where the toxins it produces can be ingested and make us sick, too. If you get sick from the toxins caused by staph bacteria your hands are just as equally likely to be the responsible party as the transmission tools as it would be someone preparing the food. Thus, a case of staph "food poisoning" could have been a case of self-infection by touching your nose, face, or skin before/while eating. In the end, though, staph toxins are not the most common cause of food poisoning. It's strangely rare for how common it is to find staph bacteria on our body.

Hope that extra information is useful. Enjoy the nightmare of eating your next meal while worrying if you touched your face.

While I appreciate the ferocity with which you defend your position, this is a classic case of "do I believe some random person on the internetz, or the government authority on illness and infectious diseases?"

That said, your description of staph toxin accumulation is a perfectly reasonable explanation and description of what likely happens 10's of times each day in WDW CS (and maybe even some TS) restaurants.... mass quantities of food in trays that may or may not be kept below 40 or above 140 degrees F for extended periods. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss complaints of food-borne illness while at WDW... especially considering the level of food service expertise you can buy at $11.00 per hour.

 

[LAKid53]

The CDC can say whatever they want. In this case they are wrong to list fever as a "common" symptom. They aren't right about everything. As an example the CDC also advises those who are trying to reduce their chances of obesity to have dried fruit when craving something sweet as a "healthy" alternative to sugary foods. However, dried fruit has a high quantity of sugar, anywhere from 40% to 65% sugar. That's if it doesn't have added sugar like dried coconut, pineapple, or papaya which only increases the sugar percentage. What they should be recommending is fresh fruit which is much lower in total sugars and calories. The point is, CDC isn't thorough in their explanation in many areas.

If you report a suspected case of food poisoning to the Health Department a key point they would use to help determine if it was food poisoning is if the victim has a fever. If they do, it is more than likely a virus. However, they would still recommend a doctor's diagnosis as a few types of nasty bacteria that cause food poisoning can result in fever. But the most common causes of food poisoning do not result in a fever. Fever resulting from food poisoning is a sign of very specific type of bacteria that caused the food poisoning, a life-threatening/advanced case of food poisoning and/or a compromised immune system. One such example is listeria. It's much more rare and usually is the result of poor food preparation/handling techniques involving vegetables. But we still hear of recalls of food products for suspected listeria contamination every once in a while.

Another key factor will be timing. Nearly all cases of food poisoning occur many hours after eating contaminated food or even the following day. If you are doubting my suggestion that 6 hours is the earliest you would see symptoms of food poisoning that is because staph is the only bacteria capable of making you sick any sooner than that. Technically a staph infection is not always categorized as food poisoning. Why? Ask the health industry...I'm not sure why. It's possibly because staph is readily found on many people's skin and in their nose at any given time. The main way it's ingested is by touching food with unwashed hands. However, you can get a staph infection in your skin without eating food. So, maybe that's why it's a grey area of how to categorize staph infection. Staph food poisoning (much more rare) is a result of toxins produced by the staph bacteria contaminating food. The only way food can get staph toxin byproducts is if 1) staph was transposed into/on the food and allowed to grow (left outside of appropriate food holding temperatures for an extended period of time which allowed it to grow to substantial numbers and produce toxins in large quantities) or 2) someone touched the toxins from staph on their skin/nose multiple times and transferred it onto food. Staph toxins can even exist in cooked foods. The cooking process kills the staph, but any toxins that were produced remain in the food and are able to sicken those who eat it. That is why it's important not to keep food at proper holding temperatures. Staph can also be transferred on ready-to-eat foods where the toxins it produces can be ingested and make us sick, too. If you get sick from the toxins caused by staph bacteria your hands are just as equally likely to be the responsible party as the transmission tools as it would be someone preparing the food. Thus, a case of staph "food poisoning" could have been a case of self-infection by touching your nose, face, or skin before/while eating. In the end, though, staph toxins are not the most common cause of food poisoning. It's strangely rare for how common it is to find staph bacteria on our body.

Hope that extra information is useful. Enjoy the nightmare of eating your next meal while worrying if you touched your face.

What medical school did you graduate from? Have a PhD in biochemistry, immunology, epidemiology or related fields?

 

[VaderTron]

While I appreciate the ferocity with which you defend your position, this is a classic case of "do I believe some random person on the internetz, or the government authority on illness and infectious diseases?"

The same government agencies that said smoking didn't increase the risk of disease until the late 20th century? Yeah...let's trust them implicitly.

 

[larryz]

The same government agencies that said smoking didn't increase the risk of disease until the late 20th century? Yeah...let's trust them implicitly.

Not implicitly, but they a darn sight more credible than an anonymous poster on the internetz.

 

[VaderTron]

Not implicitly, but they a darn sight more credible than an anonymous poster on the internetz.

Credibility is only determined by those diligent enough to vet the information regardless of the source.

 

[larryz]

Credibility is only determined by those diligent enough to vet the information regardless of the source.

Are you still digging?

 

[VaderTron]

From my understanding that most healthy people will not be effeted by staph ingestion.

I had "food poisoning" after eating at Brown Derby. At least I assume so since I was the only one violently ill and we had all been sharing water bottles all day. I know, stupid but it was so dam hot.

Or it could have been from swimming in the lazy River at TL and finding a dead rat under my feet.

This is another set of questions that the Health Dept would go through to determine food poisoning. In most cases contaminated food would make several people sick. It would be difficult to contaminate just one person's portion of food. They would ask you if anyone else ate the same food and from the same locations as you that developed similar symptoms around the same time. If not, it could very easily have been exposure to a virus a few days before and the incubation process took until shortly after you ate your meal for the virus to fully develop symptoms in your body. It could also have been food you ate the previous day. It takes a lot of investigating to find out the true cause and an open mind. Most people just can't get out of their head the last place they ate before they became violently ill. My wife, for instance, couldn't eat salmon for several years after an incident. In her case, no one else got sick. Other family had the salmon (cooked at a family gathering). It was just a virus that struck her. However, her mind associated the nausea and vomiting with her last meal. It takes determination to look beyond our immediate conclusions. I myself, when I was younger, had to be admitted to the hospital for dehydration after hours of getting sick over and over. I was convinced it was food poisoning as I had never been so sick in my life. The staff told me I had a stomach virus. It took several discussions to convince me they were right. Guess what the main line of reasoning was? "Sir, you have a fever accompanying your symptoms. That rarely indicates food poisoning and more commonly suggests a virus." They tested me for the strains of bacteria that could cause similar symptoms if I had eaten contaminated food. All came back negative. They assured me I had a virus and would likely feel better in 24-48 hours. The next day I felt fine and went home.

 

[VaderTron]

Are you still digging?
View attachment 424356

There is plenty of available information on all of this should you choose to seek it out. There is plenty of documentation from "credible" sources. Rather than play the "doubt it" card or "this member is ignoring reality" all the time perhaps take a few minutes to expand your horizons and learn something new. Research it to your heart's content to assure yourself.

 

[Clamman73]

Looking at my receipts of recent trip and seeing those $3.99 fountain drink prices adding up...yikes. It's just a vacation thing though because having a diet coke is a treat for me and not normal as I usually just have seltzer water or zero calorie Vitamin water or gatorade normally.

 

[LSLS]

There is plenty of available information on all of this should you choose to seek it out. There is plenty of documentation from "credible" sources. Rather than play the "doubt it" card or "this member is ignoring reality" all the time perhaps take a few minutes to expand your horizons and learn something new. Research it to your heart's content to assure yourself.

Honestly this is an easy debate to end. Post some peer reviewed journal articles that state exactly what you are saying. Honestly you shoot down everyone doubting you right there.

 

[YorkshireT]

No, I don't see people at Disney's Italian restaurants making gnocchi from scratch with organic yukon gold potatoes, semolina flour and farm fresh eggs each morning. IF they do make it from scratch it would be with the cheapest of all-purpose flour, commercial russet potatoes, and the cheapest of eggs from sick/dying chickens stuffed in cages for their whole lives. More than likely, it's Sysco (or whatever food supplier WDW uses) "fresh" gnocchi in a package that is boiled to order and added to the finishing pan with the other ingredients.

Many people also don't understand that food quality grades are varied and complex. For example, you could say that you have steak on your menu. What grade do you think it is? Most people can think of a couple of grades. Actually their are 8 grades of beef all the with prefix U.S. : Canner, Cutter, Utility, Commercial, Standard, Select, Choice, and Prime. Some even fine-tune the grade with "AAA Prime" or other such variances. On top of the grade you have the cut, which we all know some are better than others. Then you have different breeds of cattle and how/where the animal was raised. You have free-range, organic, grass-fed, pasture raised, local (allowing for true fresh meat, never frozen), Kosher, Natural, Humanely-raised, no antibiotics/hormones, Angus, Wagyu, and Kobe.

From just one category of meat it is very easy to see the path a company can take to a slow (or fast) decline in food quality when you start choosing lower quality ingredients. Lower quality = lower cost. Unfortunately for current management that is the only equation that matters.

This type of hierarchy within a food category is not unique to beef. Other meat, such as chicken, have the same. For personal experience I highly suggest you cook a Tyson "fresh" chicken breast and a Joyce Farms Poulet Rouge Whole Heritage chicken breast and taste them at the same time. The difference will blow your mind. You will be convinced Tyson has you eating a rubber chicken. It's also not unique to meat. Try a Walmart bakery Italian loaf of bread and tell me it's the same as a fresh loaf from a real bakery. Read the ingredients. What's a dough conditioner or the other stuff you can't pronounce? I'll keep it brief...it's not what good bakers put in their fresh bread, but it does have to do with why you can keep it for about a week or more without it getting moldy. (That's not as positive as it sounds.) Also, take Kraft grated Parmesan and compare it to a Parmesan wedge you fresh grate yourself. Get a "cheaper" wedge from the local grocery in the cheese section, and then go get a "real" Parmesan chunk from Whole Foods. You will notice a vast chasm between Kraft grated (with anti-caking agents making up a significant amount of the "parmesan") and the "real" Parmesan from Whole Foods. The wedge from the local grocery will also taste a little different. Better than Kraft but not quite as good as Whole Foods.

The point is in just one dish a substitution or downgrade of several ingredients, even if not downgraded by much, will still be noticed in overall taste, flavor, tenderness, texture, and so forth. So, there are not two tiers of cooking: frozen microwaved and "fresh made". There are many nuances that will alter the quality and enjoyment of the food we eat.

Have I seen Disney's food quality slide? Yes. Majorly. The reasons would only be known if you were involved in the food order process for a Disney restaurant. A few "small" changes in quality of ingredients when all put together in the same dish will be noticed.

I love anti caking agent........