WDW busses to get GPS tracking system

[barnum42]

the company can trim staffing and better direct the fleet.

"Trim staffing", another pretty phrase for "make redundant"

 

[AEfx]

It no reach at all. ActiveWave passive (and disposalible) RFID tags already exist. They require no batteries. Do you know what EAS tags are? These systems are currently working all over the world! The tag can be incorporated into an admission ticket or a resort room card (or anything else). The guest will never even know it is there.

Also, there is no need to tag guests under the skin.:lol: Just remember that when you board a bus or depart a bus, each passenger must pass through a narrow doorway.

P.S. WDW already uses RFID for counting!

The skin part was a joke. I was expressing the fact that under-skin tagging is about the only way to garuntee guests were carrying an RFID tag. And yes, I know all about RFID - it's a scary thing and everyone should be aware of it's potential.

The point I was expressing is that current RFID technology does not work in the way you posed in your posting. In order for them to, say, read how many people were standing at a bus stop, everyone would have to be carrying an RFID tag to begin with. That's a huge leap right there - the only possible place to embed them would be tickets/room keys and not everyone will be individually carrying one. This isn't even to mention a complete reworking of the ticket media to do so - and RFID tags are not cheap.

Next you have to deal with power. RFID tags with no power have a limited range. I purchase ID tags for a large company for employees to use RFID to enter doors. Without power, they have a limited range. That's why the ones we purchase have batteries (they still are thin as a credit card, however). They are also very expensive (ten bucks a whack). Disposable, cheaper tags are available but then you have the scanning issue.

In order to effectively scan a group of people waiting at a bus stop, you would have to have a HELL of a powerful scanner, or powered RFID tags. I simply don't see Disney going to all that expense. Can you imagine them outfitting every single bus stop and corral to do such a thing? It would be infinately cheaper to just have closed circut cameras on the bus stops and pay someone to count manually and you'd achieve the same effect if they so desired (especially since I'm sure the cameras already exist).

Between having people reliably carrying a tag, the expense of producing all media with the tags, and the needs of scanning a large, open area I just don't see it working the way you postulated. If, as you state, they scanned at the doors to busses, that sort of defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place - does a bus driver need RFID to tell him the bus is full or empty? The reasoning you gave for putting in such a system was to monitor the waits, not the people getting on and off a bus which wouldn't be especially helpful information to have in real time. For long term usage studies it could be useful, but again, a bus driver could do the same job without using all kinds of very expensive technology.

So I stick to my statement - I think you are really reaching here. Not just in terms of available technology, but in terms of practical value when compared to the extreme cost such a system would endure.

Just my opinion.

AEfx

 

[tomm4004]

Also, the system might incorporate sensors at each of the bus stops that would provide real time passenger information to the dispatch office. For example dispatch would know instantly that 150 guests
are waiting at the MK bus stop at the POP Century and they could take appropriate action.

Jumping for joy. On our last trip we were twice stranded at bus stops and got action only after making telephone calls. Hopefully, this will help eliminate these situations. One driver complained that they're weren't enough drivers. Perhaps this system will allow them to use drivers more efficiently.

 

[askmike1]

It would be infinately cheaper to just have closed circut cameras on the bus stops and pay someone to count manually and you'd achieve the same effect if they so desired (especially since I'm sure the cameras already exist).........If, as you state, they scanned at the doors to busses, that sort of defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place

That's very true. Instead of regular cameras though, they have this technology they use on highways to monitor traffic. I don't know what it's called but it can sense when individual cars move and can tell when they stop. If they use this technology for lines, it can sense when people enter the lines and would probably be more efficient then the regular person counting. Plus, I think that it's just software, so they could keep whatever cameras they have there.

-Michael

 

[Dayma]

So I stick to my statement - I think you are really reaching here. Not just in terms of available technology, but in terms of practical value when compared to the extreme cost such a system would endure.

Just my opinion.

AEfx

The amount they would save by improving routes and or cutting extra workers would pay for the systems. GPS is not nearly as expensive as people belive. By going to GPS this takes the "human element" out of tracking the buses. Everything is automated. Coming from an IT dept myself you ALWAYS want to automate everything if possible. The less human error into something the better...

 

[boo52]

This should end the monorail expansion rumor for awhile. Why would Disney spend all this money on GPS for the buses only to expand the monorail. It does not make sense. So I would be hard pressed to believe that they are going to do anything with the monorail anytime soon.

 

[Woody13]

The point I was expressing is that current RFID technology does not work in the way you posed in your posting. In order for them to, say, read how many people were standing at a bus stop, everyone would have to be carrying an RFID tag to begin with. That's a huge leap right there - the only possible place to embed them would be tickets/room keys and not everyone will be individually carrying one. This isn't even to mention a complete reworking of the ticket media to do so - and RFID tags are not cheap.

Next you have to deal with power. RFID tags with no power have a limited range. I purchase ID tags for a large company for employees to use RFID to enter doors. Without power, they have a limited range. That's why the ones we purchase have batteries (they still are thin as a credit card, however). They are also very expensive (ten bucks a whack). Disposable, cheaper tags are available but then you have the scanning issue.

In order to effectively scan a group of people waiting at a bus stop, you would have to have a HELL of a powerful scanner, or powered RFID tags. I simply don't see Disney going to all that expense. Can you imagine them outfitting every single bus stop and corral to do such a thing? It would be infinately cheaper to just have closed circut cameras on the bus stops and pay someone to count manually and you'd achieve the same effect if they so desired (especially since I'm sure the cameras already exist).

Between having people reliably carrying a tag, the expense of producing all media with the tags, and the needs of scanning a large, open area I just don't see it working the way you postulated. If, as you state, they scanned at the doors to busses, that sort of defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place - does a bus driver need RFID to tell him the bus is full or empty? The reasoning you gave for putting in such a system was to monitor the waits, not the people getting on and off a bus which wouldn't be especially helpful information to have in real time. For long term usage studies it could be useful, but again, a bus driver could do the same job without using all kinds of very expensive technology.

So I stick to my statement - I think you are really reaching here. Not just in terms of available technology, but in terms of practical value when compared to the extreme cost such a system would endure.

Just my opinion.

AEfx

RFID employs a numbering scheme called EPC (for "electronic product code") which provides a unique ID for any physical object or person in the world. The EPC replaces the UPC bar code used on products today.
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O></O>

Unlike the bar code, however, the EPC goes beyond identifying product categories. It actually assigns a unique number to every single item or person. For example, each pack of cigarettes, candy bar, light bulb, bottle of beer or person is uniquely identifiable through its own EPC number.

<O></O>
Once assigned, this number is transmitted by a radio frequency ID tag (RFID) in or on the product. These tiny tags cost less than a penny a piece and are about the size of a speck of dust. They can be put directly into food, banknotes, prescription drugs, admission tickets (airplane, train, bus, sporting events, etc.).

<O></O>
Receiver or reader devices are used to pick up the signal transmitted by the RFID tag. This would allow for seamless, continuous identification and tracking of guests as they move from one place to another, enabling WDW to determine the whereabouts of all their guests at all times.

Remember that WDW is already using Magic Express tags and several other RFID devices.

RFID Technology is currently used in the following applications:

Access Control
Airline Baggage ID
Automotive
Document Tracking
Express Parcel ID
Logistics/ Supply Chain
Sports Timing
Ticketing
Inventory/Distribution/Warehousing

Smart Label Applications
• Supply chain management • Inventory control • Book and videotape rental libraries • Package and cargo tracking • Reusable container tracking • Work-in-process • Access control and security systems • Capital asset labeling/tracking • Healthcare—patient ID, blood bags, test tubes • Airline baggage tags • Garment and uniform rental • Document/file tracking • Hazardous waste drums • Amusement park and concert wristbands • Authentication

So, as you can see, if they desire to use such a system, it can be done. It's cheap, easy and very accurate. However, there is one reason why they may decide not to use RFID. The Big Brother aspect. A lot of guests will not like the idea that they are being "tracked" around WDW. They've got to overcome that problem first!

 

[leebier]

I think part of the confusion here is some people are talking about techonology as it is today and others are discussing what will LIKELY be around the corner.

RFID (as I understand it, but I'm FAR from an expert) is not a penny per chip today, but most expect it to be there in the next 5-15 years. Due to cost and power concerns, it's impractical to use RFID for most small and/or disposable items. WalMart is testing RFID, but only with full pallettes of materials as it's not yet practical to code each individual item. Now, a few years down the line, as the manufacturers can continue to advance the technology and take advantage of scale economies, then we will see RFID really become the ubiquitous and cheap technology the tech writers keep promising it is.

It would be illogical, impractical, and unbeneficial for Disney to implement RFID chips in every ticket today, but by keeping RFID in mind when implementing new systems (like the bus tracking systems, for example), it should help them integrate it without a second huge investment when the time comes. So, in the case of this example, if the transmitters they'll use for the GPS location info are also capible of sending in information about bus loads and/or line sizes as gathered by RFID chips, then they won't have to go expensively upgrading the bus system when they want to introduce RFID.

Building with upgradability in mind is a good thing. I wish more people/places would do the same.

And I'm sure Tyler or someone will comment, but hopefully I haven't overestimated the folks at WDW Transport .

Lee

 

[Invero]

And I'm sure Tyler or someone will comment,

I no longer work for Disney Transport, but my guess is that it won't be utilized to it's full benefit. All the GPS will do will point out the scammer drivers, and help the dispatchers know when a bus will be arriving back to the hub for dispatch. This in itself will be a huge thing...

but hopefully I haven't overestimated the folks at WDW Transport .

It's not a hard thing to do.

 

[bgraham34]

I am surprised this was not used early. I put this into Delievery trucks way back in 2000 and it worked great.