Walt Disney World: "Too Big For Its Own Good"?

[JohnD]

100% agree. Do more with the parks and enhance what you have. How the hell does the "Africa Outpost" in EPCOT still even exist? There is still a huge amount of space that still exists in the current infrastructure that they have literally done nothing with cough Innoventions cough

In the concepts, Innoventions is being removed for the most part, with the exception of Mouse Gear on the east side and Starbucks on the west.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

In the concepts, Innoventions is being removed for the most part, with the exception of Mouse Gear on the east side and Starbucks on the west.

Gotta "save" Starbucks. I think Dr Evil did have a plan after all................We just didn't understand what "World" he was talking about initially.....now we know.....

 

[WondersOfLife]

It looks like you are labeling an attraction "minor" based on its popularity or lackthereof. As lousy as it was, and it was absolutely terrible, Body Wars was most certainly NOT a minor attraction, not at its inception nor at its demise. It was modeled after the 'E' level experience Star Tours over at MGM at the time. The fact that few liked it doesn't change its scope, scale or ambition even if misguided and embarrassing.

I know all of the backstory of Body Wars and it’s insane budget. An attraction can start off as a big headliner on its opening day and then turn into a minor attraction. That IS possible. If it was a major attraction, it would still be here today.

It’s legacy? Yes definitely major. But if it doesn’t age well, is not maintained, popularity falls, then it won’t be major forever. Look at Carousel of Progress and Country Bear Jamboree. Those used to be considered “major” as well.

 

[Shouldigo12]

There must be 90% or more of undeveloped acreage.....

I feel like that can't be true.

 

[Damon7777]

By far the bulk of WDW acreage is mosquito, turtle, snake, bird and crocodilian laden........swamps, light forests and meadows abound.
The ratio of unused vs human used terrain is very lopsided.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

There is certainly a danger to growing too large.. Besides all the theme park expansion, they expanded the hotel room capacity, this gets more and more people on property which becomes a congestion issue (or commuter if you will). The ominous thing that I see is what happens if something major happens again in this country. After 911, people were afraid to travel, the parks were empty, quite a few of the local hotels on 192 were wiped out. If something happened now, what does Disney do with their hotel rooms? sitting empty (usually no AC) unoccupied building deteriorate fast in the FL heat/humidity..

 

[ChrisFL]

There must be 90% or more of undeveloped acreage.....meaning the ratio of overall land to guest utility is laughably low.

People tout how big WDW is, as if that is a good thing:
"Disneyworld is 45 square miles, the same approx. size as San Francisco"

as if I'm supposed to be impressed.


The property is so vast that it does the guest a disservice.

I don't think it's 90%, probably much less, and a lot of it can't be developed because it's conservation land.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It looks like you are labeling an attraction "minor" based on its popularity or lackthereof. As lousy as it was, and it was absolutely terrible, Body Wars was most certainly NOT a minor attraction, not at its inception nor at its demise. It was modeled after the 'E' level experience Star Tours over at MGM at the time. The fact that few liked it doesn't change its scope, scale or ambition even if misguided and embarrassing.

Except it wasn't misguided or embarrassing. It was pure Disney Fantasy. People (some, I never did) had problems with it because it made them sick. Sorry, but, even though it cannot be controlled it is still on the individual and their tolerance. The idea was good, the production was good, the theming was great and it truly felt real. Now that is excellent in my book. And a whole lot more then a "few" like it.

We hear so much about Cranium Command and it's greatness. Well, you sat on a stationary bench and it was nothing more then pure entertainment. The pre-show was the best part, but, it was all good in the entertaining sense. In the immersion sense, not so much. Funny, for sure, but, hardly high tech in my mind. For the most part anything designed to emphasize good health will be as interesting as watching lettuce wilt, but, I would think that the entire pavilion went a long way into fulfilling the intended goals. A target, must see place? Probably not, but, it did fit in well with the edutainment aspect and theme of the park.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, I'm not one of them, but there are plenty who think WDW needs a fifth gate. That doesn't sound like too big for them.

Not me either. What they need to do is fillup the existing ones that are currently open. More then that and you start to over-confuse the planning situation.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I know all of the backstory of Body Wars and it’s insane budget. An attraction can start off as a big headliner on its opening day and then turn into a minor attraction. That IS possible. If it was a major attraction, it would still be here today.

It’s legacy? Yes definitely major. But if it doesn’t age well, is not maintained, popularity falls, then it won’t be major forever. Look at Carousel of Progress and Country Bear Jamboree. Those used to be considered “major” as well.

Well, it is basically the same ride as Star Tours and that one still draws lines. So, that boils it down to subject matter and perhaps even location. CoP and CBJ were considered major because at the time animatronics was a new and fascinating thing to witness. As years move along, like the space program, robots became the things that drowsiness is made of. It just stopped being exciting or new and then the entertainment factor had to kick in to maintain that spark. All those major shows had their own story line and their own "special" things.

As much as I enjoy CoP, I am still more fascinated by the fact that the entire floor moves around the stages. That was also a thing that no one had ever experienced. And the fact that after almost 50 years in WDW it still works very well. We take so much innovative engineering for granted today. We are all spoiled by people walking on the moon and i-phones that we have lost sight of the level of thought and engineering that had to go into those attractions. Now they are all just Ho-Hum!

 

[WondersOfLife]

Well, it is basically the same ride as Star Tours and that one still draws lines. So, that boils it down to subject matter and perhaps even location. CoP and CBJ were considered major because at the time animatronics was a new and fascinating thing to witness. As years move along, like the space program, robots became the things that drowsiness is made of. It just stopped being exciting or new and then the entertainment factor had to kick in to maintain that spark. All those major shows had their own story line and their own "special" things.

As much as I enjoy CoP, I am still more fascinated by the fact that the entire floor moves around the stages. That was also a thing that no one had ever experienced. And the fact that after almost 50 years in WDW it still works very well. We take so much innovative engineering for granted today. We are all spoiled by people walking on the moon and i-phones that we have lost sight of the level of thought and engineering that had to go into those attractions. Now they are all just Ho-Hum!

I don’t know if you remember or not, but Star Tours 1.0 was literally dead until they did a massive update to it. I would have considered it a minor attraction during that time.

Now? Eh. I guess it’s a major attraction. Due to a lack of attractions. But it’s definitely not one a lot of people take the time to hype up. Making the different combination effect on the ride was a smart move to keep people coming back.

For the record, I agree with practically everything you said.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Except it wasn't misguided or embarrassing. It was pure Disney Fantasy. People (some, I never did) had problems with it because it made them sick. Sorry, but, even though it cannot be controlled it is still on the individual and their tolerance. The idea was good, the production was good, the theming was great and it truly felt real. Now that is excellent in my book. And a whole lot more then a "few" like it.

I agree the idea was great, but the technology became a bit dated, just as the video quality of Soarin' became dated over time.

Just as Soarin' and Star Tours were updated, WDW also could have updated Body Wars. Over the last 30+ years, we've seen an absolute explosion in the quality of digital imagery. Rides of this type need regular updates to keep pace with the times.

I think the flaw of Epcot was the sameness across much of the original park. Individually, the attractions were great. It was just a bit too much of the same kind of approach. Universal has a bit of the same problem. A few too many of their rides are just different flavors of the same ride style.

Unfortunately, America is suffering from the misguided notion that educational = boring. It's an absolute shame. Even Test Track got dumbed down when it was remodeled, and that is just sad. What still makes TT special though is that it is a bit of a thrill ride, but it isn't just another coaster. It is something unique.

I daresay, another factor that I think has hurt Epcot is the switch to new FP. Epcot just doesn't fit the model, because it hasn't had enough FP attractions. What 3 FP do you choose at Epcot? With tiers, it really feels like one is wasting two FP. Meanwhile, MK has a host of FP attractions that are worth a FP. Hopefully this will improve as more attractions are added.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

As much as I enjoy CoP, I am still more fascinated by the fact that the entire floor moves around the stages. That was also a thing that no one had ever experienced. And the fact that after almost 50 years in WDW it still works very well. We take so much innovative engineering for granted today.

IMO, the problem with CoP is that the last scene is painfully dated. In Tomorrowland.
I'd personally visit more often if the last scene was actually about the future, instead of the 1990's. I love the earlier scenes.

 

[larryz]

IMO, the problem with CoP is that the last scene is painfully dated. In Tomorrowland.
I'd personally visit more often if the last scene was actually about the future, instead of the 1990's. I love the earlier scenes.

Well, short of turning it into an episode of Star Trek or something even worse, it's going to be very hard to (a) predict where science and technology will be in 25 to 50 years, and (b) get two Imagineers to agree on a common vision of same.

Besides, the long-term viability of the ride would require an eventual upgrade from a "theater in the round" to a "theater on a whip" as WDW would have to add scenes every 25 to 50 years... the jump from the late '50's to the 2030's would otherwise be too great to make contextual sense.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

I think they should have just refreshed the 3 parks in the 90’s held on to and refresh everything without cutting anything then add a couple attractions for each park. It seems like when the Animal kingdom Opened and the Millenium Celebration happened something changed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

IMO, the problem with CoP is that the last scene is painfully dated. In Tomorrowland.
I'd personally visit more often if the last scene was actually about the future, instead of the 1990's. I love the earlier scenes.

Yes it is dated and at one point in time they tried to upgrade it, but, it is separating the sections to far apart. CoP will no longer work with an ending scene that captures the future. There is one major reason for that and that is that they can no longer make predictions about the future. Things are changing way to fast for a theme park attractions to keep up with it. CoP is truly worth saving and it can become more relevant every single day as a historical attraction. Not only because of the history of it's creation and the hand that Walt had in it, but, also because the deeper we get into the 21st century our children will have no idea how much progress was made in the 100 year span from 1900 to 2000.

Heck I was 35 the first time I saw it back in 1983 and I was introduced to what life was like in the early 1900. Think about how far out of touch today's children are with it. What is wrong with a place the shows them in 3D what life was like for their parents, grandparents and great grandparents. It needs to be marketed that way and left as a wonderfully funny and pretty accurate, entertaining look at the past. The way it is now is a pretty accurate depiction of the entire 20th Century and the advancement made during that short period of time. We still need to remember the past.

If we want an attraction that hints to what the future might be like they could build something that is well into the future and, perhaps, even in another Galaxy. Wait... that may be happening already. Leave CoP as a historical show that contrasts the many, many things that could be done within Tomorrowland. That would help make Tomorrowland much more understandable.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Well, short of turning it into an episode of Star Trek or something even worse, it's going to be very hard to (a) predict where science and technology will be in 25 to 50 years, and (b) get two Imagineers to agree on a common vision of same.

Besides, the long-term viability of the ride would require an eventual upgrade from a "theater in the round" to a "theater on a whip" as WDW would have to add scenes every 25 to 50 years... the jump from the late '50's to the 2030's would otherwise be too great to make contextual sense.

huh? Why the hyperbole? I didn't say 50 years out. And well, actually you are flat out wrong. I could point out a number of technologies that are on the horizon. It is as easy as talking to engineers and researchers.

Currently, a number of technologies already exist, but just aren't yet widespread. Additive Manufacturing is exploding right now. You maybe know about little 3D printers for making small plastic items, but do you know about metal 3D printers? With metal 3D printers, one can make complex shapes that are impossible to machine. All kinds of industries are just beginning to use it for prototyping. Search 3d printed car. Even better, search Strati, local motors. Because they envision folks being able to reprint the entire body of their cars whenever folks want a new look. And that's just one tiny way additive manufacturing is a big deal.

It is silly to say WDW can't update CoP scenes from time to time, when WDW has updated much of PotC in recent years.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Leave CoP as a historical show that contrasts the many, many things that could be done within Tomorrowland. That would help make Tomorrowland much more understandable.

Well, maybe they need to rename the area Retro-land?

Sadly, as a culture, I don't think we look towards the future quite the same way we once did.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well, maybe they need to rename the area Retro-land?

Sadly, as a culture, I don't think we look towards the future quite the same way we once did.

Then we might as well look at and enjoy the past, because the present sucks.