News Walt Disney World to resume sales of Annual Passes (New sales resume April 20, 2023)

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They might not like it, but they would accept it as long as revenue grows in tandem. So this is the time to pay the piper, if they are going to.

Wall Street writes is own rules…it’s an unregulated mess…

if Slaphead says they don’t need to pay…or even have employees…they’ll run with it and initiate tens of millions of trades within nanoseconds that reap immediate profit today…
…just like the previous Bob told Wall Street that a streaming service that costs them money for a long time was justification for insane stock price inflation…today.

 

[hopemax]

They are most certainly Disney's fault for laying them off in the first place. The problem they have now is in offering higher pay and bonuses to new employees than people who have been there for years. Raising the minimum also angers the senior staff who want commensurate raises in line with their experience. They'd need to bump everybody up (which I'm fine with personally). They allowed a lot of people who were more or less ok with being underpaid to walk this spring, instead of at least keeping them on the books through the extended unemployment benefits period. It was doubly stupid because now they need to train new people who have less attachment to the company, at a higher rate.

It is certainly fair if they expect a reset for customers that we need to pay more for services, that they will need to accept a reset on salary ranges.

If they have people left to adequately train them. Honestly, in 2005 when my Mom was first trained in merchandise at WDW she still felt like a deer in the headlights (and she was a former Asst. manager of a Disney Store, so it's not like she was coming in completely cold). The things you do hourly, yeah, you pick that stuff up pretty quick. But there is a ton of stuff that only shows up once a day, once a week, once a month, once every six months. When she got into a higher level position, in a different type of merchandise job, she almost quit because while Disney taught them how to use a software program, they didn't actually teach *the job.* And there were only one of that type of job per area, so she couldn't just ask for help. She would have to call people in a different park or resort, who may or may not have the answer she needed because they weren't told either, and frankly, some people just don't want to help. She was so frustrated that she wasn't given the tools to be successful and worst of all no one in management cared. She eventually learned who would help and know, and so she ended up cleaning up stuff that had been sitting around for 2 years because her predecessors didn't know how to do it. It was like Disney just assumed the machine would just keep running on inertia, and we always wondered what would happen when the important cogs retired, and no one really knew what to do. I can't imagine that got any better in the 6 years since my Mom passed away, and the closure had to make it a thousand times worse.

So I wonder if this is also part of WDW's problem ramping back up. Even though their spreadsheet says they are at X% of normal staffing, they are at Y% below normal *production* because all these new people aren't... and I've been using these terms for a decade now... "proficient and efficient" at their jobs. The people who did know what to do retired, went to work at Universal or elsewhere and so now can't teach all the new hires what to do and how to do it quickly. I'll repeat the anecdote a friend experienced, that I shared when it happened. She couldn't even get a cup of Coke at Captain Cook's because the flavor was empty in all the machines. And then when she tried to get another flavor the machine said she used all her refills...and worst of all... the CM working didn't know what to do about it to get my friend a soda that she had paid for. These things can't keep happening with any frequency, and it's all a result of Disney's choices.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If they have people left to adequately train them. Honestly, in 2005 when my Mom was first trained in merchandise at WDW she still felt like a deer in the headlights (and she was a former Asst. manager of a Disney Store, so it's not like she was coming in completely cold). The things you do hourly, yeah, you pick that stuff up pretty quick. But there is a ton of stuff that only shows up once a day, once a week, once a month, once every six months. When she got into a higher level position, in a different type of merchandise job, she almost quit because while Disney taught them how to use a software program, they didn't actually teach *the job.* And there were only one of that type of job per area, so she couldn't just ask for help. She would have to call people in a different park or resort, who may or may not have the answer she needed because they weren't told either, and frankly, some people just don't want to help. She was so frustrated that she wasn't given the tools to be successful and worst of all no one in management cared. She eventually learned who would help and know, and so she ended up cleaning up stuff that had been sitting around for 2 years because her predecessors didn't know how to do it. It was like Disney just assumed the machine would just keep running on inertia, and we always wondered what would happen when the important cogs retired, and no one really new what to do. I can't imagine that got any better in the 6 years since my Mom passed away, and the closure had to make it a thousand times worse.

So I wonder if this is also part of WDW's problem ramping back up. Even though their spreadsheet says they are at X% of normal staffing, they are at Y% below normal *production* because all these new people aren't... and I've been using these terms for a decade now... "proficient and efficient" at their jobs. The people who did know what to do retired, went to work at Universal or elsewhere and so now can't teach all the new hires what to do and how to do it quickly. I'll repeat the anecdote a friend experienced, that I shared when it happened. She couldn't even get a cup of Coke at Captain Cook's because the flavor was empty in all the machines. And then when she tried to get another flavor the machine said she used all her refills...and worst of all... the CM working didn't know what to do about it to get my friend a soda that she had paid for. These things can't keep happening with any frequency, and it's all a result of Disney's choices.

Training has been a joke since circa 2000…it used to be for a purpose…now they rely on trial by fire…

…which Burns through the local labor pool and causes high turnover

…pennies are saved in the grand scheme

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Training has been a joke since circa 2000…it used to be for a purpose…now they rely on trial by fire…

…which Burns through the local labor pool and causes high turnover

…pennies are saved in the grand scheme

Actually more pennies spent. It costs more to train a new employee than it does to keep a good one. They should be investing a decent amount of money in training programs. (Says the person with a degree in education that included needs analysis and developing training programs for employees)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

@hopemax really provided a good overview of the problem with labor practices in Orlando…the declining levels of production…which requires more upfront overhead costs to replace…which calls for the stock lords to dig in their heels and extract more blood for it.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

@hopemax really provided a good overview of the problem with labor practices in Orlando…the declining levels of production…which requires more upfront overhead costs to replace…which calls for the stock lords to dig in their heels and extract more blood for it.

I've been hearing about the training issues at WDW for a while and with that in mind, one of my projects for my degree involved "creating" a new (imaginary) theme park like WDW that was having issues with training and retaining good employees as well as with inter-department and park-to-park communications and chain of command. The "project" part was solving the presented issues by developing the needed training and implementing procedures to fix the inadequacies and inefficiencies.

ETA: It also included needs analysis and employee interviews...to determine which areas of training were insufficient. It ended up being a huuuuuuge project. Something like 20 pages longer than I needed.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Soooo how does any of this effect the fact they have barely built anything to meaningfully increase capacity in the last decade?

It doesn't. I wasn't making that point. Don't know why you thought that. They should indeed have been increasing capacity over the decade.

 

[mkt]

Nope. They kept wages well below matching inflation for decades. It's time to pay the piper.

Not that long ago, it was completely possible to work full time at Disney with several years of seniority plus occasional overtime, and still qualify for government assistance.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not that long ago, it was completely possible to work full time at Disney with several years of seniority plus occasional overtime, and still qualify for government assistance.

As with near all of the “up and coming” tourist state of florida

something that didn’t get much play at the time….was that the Bobs dumped people into the notoriously bad Florida “social” system and that can’t be understated. It’s takes forever to get anything done. Can you imagine people with no actual money thinking about that every minute of the day for months?

I wouldn’t go back…they didn’t “quit” they were dumped at the curb by the Bobs…when other places were on the news all day trying harder.

they way misplayed that…I don’t know if that genie is ever going back into the lamp?

 

[zulemara]

Orlando Theme Parks as a local:
Sea world: we want you, your friends, and your money
Universal: we want you and your money
Disney: we want your $, but only when there isn’t someone else with more $ to take your spot

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Orlando Theme Parks as a local:
Sea world: we want you, your friends, and your money
Universal: we want you and your money
Disney: we want your $, but only when there isn’t someone else with more $ to take your spot

It’s kinda hard to dispute this based on the current tact…

but the customers can help themselves by not buying under those conditions…and they’re failing as usual.

 

[networkpro]

I think it's inevitable that Disney raises it's base wage. The company I work for pays no one less than 20 dollars an hour
It's easier to keep people than retrain new ones to replace those that jump for a dollar more.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Orlando Theme Parks as a local:
Sea world: we want you, your friends, and your money
Universal: we want you and your money
Disney: we want your $, but only when there isn’t someone else with more $ to take your spot

If Sea World and Universal had the overcrowding issues WDW has, you bet they'd change their tune.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think it's inevitable that Disney raises it's base wage. The company I work for pays no one less than 20 dollars an hour
It's easier to keep people than retrain new ones to replace those that jump for a dollar more.

They have resisted this concept for the better part of 30 years and gotten away with it until now…

wdw is the most unique scenario in labor in the US…nowhere else in the country does a single employer require 60,000 employees simply to operate at all in a populated area with competition?

I imagine their strategy is to “wait it out”…these minuscule bonuses are just window dressing hoping that the labor market will cool and more desperation for minimal wages returns. Hasn’t gone well so far.

but they could “fix it” fairly easily…not only start at higher wages, but compensate Those on staff accordingly and raise the rates fairly consistently over a period of time…

$15 for new…$17 for a year service…$19 for 2 or 3…etc

not hard…but when you have enjoyed 30 years of Diminishing wages against inflation…it’s like a drug to Wall Street

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If Sea World and Universal had the overcrowding issues WDW has, you bet they'd change their tune.

Of their own creation…you have to identify the source of the crowding if you want to use it as a corporate excuse. That’s fair

 

[zulemara]

If Sea World and Universal had the overcrowding issues WDW has, you bet they'd change their tune.

Yeah sure, that’s why they had to make photo pass an add on to APs and not include any Genie + days in them either. Seriously look at the benefits of annual pass holders for the other parks and then ask which one of these parks actually wants me.
Disney can control attendance with the reservation system. There is no need for the hostility towards APs. They are so blatantly arrogant when it comes to locals

 

[zulemara]

If they have people left to adequately train them. Honestly, in 2005 when my Mom was first trained in merchandise at WDW she still felt like a deer in the headlights (and she was a former Asst. manager of a Disney Store, so it's not like she was coming in completely cold). The things you do hourly, yeah, you pick that stuff up pretty quick. But there is a ton of stuff that only shows up once a day, once a week, once a month, once every six months. When she got into a higher level position, in a different type of merchandise job, she almost quit because while Disney taught them how to use a software program, they didn't actually teach *the job.* And there were only one of that type of job per area, so she couldn't just ask for help. She would have to call people in a different park or resort, who may or may not have the answer she needed because they weren't told either, and frankly, some people just don't want to help. She was so frustrated that she wasn't given the tools to be successful and worst of all no one in management cared. She eventually learned who would help and know, and so she ended up cleaning up stuff that had been sitting around for 2 years because her predecessors didn't know how to do it. It was like Disney just assumed the machine would just keep running on inertia, and we always wondered what would happen when the important cogs retired, and no one really knew what to do. I can't imagine that got any better in the 6 years since my Mom passed away, and the closure had to make it a thousand times worse.

So I wonder if this is also part of WDW's problem ramping back up. Even though their spreadsheet says they are at X% of normal staffing, they are at Y% below normal *production* because all these new people aren't... and I've been using these terms for a decade now... "proficient and efficient" at their jobs. The people who did know what to do retired, went to work at Universal or elsewhere and so now can't teach all the new hires what to do and how to do it quickly. I'll repeat the anecdote a friend experienced, that I shared when it happened. She couldn't even get a cup of Coke at Captain Cook's because the flavor was empty in all the machines. And then when she tried to get another flavor the machine said she used all her refills...and worst of all... the CM working didn't know what to do about it to get my friend a soda that she had paid for. These things can't keep happening with any frequency, and it's all a result of Disney's choices.

And if the increased pricing and reduced benefits aren’t enough, these are the situations that just add to it. It’s not a premium product when the workers don’t know how to solve basic problems.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah sure, that’s why they had to make photo pass an add on to APs and not include any Genie + days in them either. Seriously look at the benefits of annual pass holders for the other parks and then ask which one of these parks actually wants me.
Disney can control attendance with the reservation system. There is no need for the hostility towards APs. They are so blatantly arrogant when it comes to locals

Its cause you don't spend 10k a week when visiting like a family does.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Yeah sure, that’s why they had to make photo pass an add on to APs and not include any Genie + days in them either. Seriously look at the benefits of annual pass holders for the other parks and then ask which one of these parks actually wants me.
Disney can control attendance with the reservation system. There is no need for the hostility towards APs. They are so blatantly arrogant when it comes to locals

You're right. WDW doesn't want you. That's why APs and day-tickets for December have either been 'paused' or made unavailable. WDW is beating people back with a stick. They're a victim of their own success (and failure to increase capacity when they had the chance).

If the other parks were in the same situation, they'd do the same.

Just try calling for a plumber or electrician who's already booked with customers. They'd turn you away, too. And you'd say, "Hmph, I guess they don't want my business!" And you'd be right. They don't. At this time.

 

[zulemara]

You're right. WDW doesn't want you. That's why APs and day-tickets for December have either been 'paused' or made unavailable. WDW is beating people back with a stick. They're a victim of their own success (and failure to increase capacity when they had the chance).

If the other parks were in the same situation, they'd do the same.

Just try calling for a plumber or electrician who's already booked with customers. They'd turn you away, too. And you'd say, "Hmph, I guess they don't want my business!" And you'd be right. They don't. At this time.

They can achieve that without slapping us in the face. We've accepted price increases every year and expect them. But jumping the price substantially while removing benefits of the passes isn't just about limiting capacity for a higher paying guest. Did they REALLY have to make photopass an addon? And they couldn't give us even a couple Genie + passes for the year like their competitors do? I mean cmon..Mickey is practically slapping our face.