VQ/BGs (Virtual Queues/Boarding Groups)... Yay or Nay? (Better alternatives?)

[JoQuo711]

In that case, people are still being penalized even though they made the effort to get to the park early. I still believe the current iteration is about as fair as things can get.

How do you mean? I was just saying everyone there before opening could click something on the app to request a boarding group and then get randomly assigned one at 7am on the dot with all of the other folks who were there and clicked before opening. You'd still need to be in the park before opening just like the current system.

 

[Jones14]

But what if the newest ride is a carousel? And the third newest ride is still a) the most popular and b) unreliable?

FoP has been open for almost three years now and lines can still be four hours long.

I guess it depends on if said carousel is gonna be part of the Fastpass+ system or not. If it is, it goes into that system, but if not, it just opens and nothing changes for the system above until the next D or E-Ticket opens.

As to the second point, Disney seems hellbent on utilizing Fastpass+ as a front of the line pass for far too many people, and as long as they do you’re going to continue to see nightmarish standby waits. They seem content with two-three hour waits for headliners, so my idea is to help prevent waits above that threshold within their absurd process for using the system.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

How do you mean? I was just saying everyone there before opening could click something on the app to request a boarding group and then get randomly assigned one at 7am on the dot with all of the other folks who were there and clicked before opening. You'd still need to be in the park before opening just like the current system.

Because some of those who made the extra effort to get there at 6:30 am will still end up with back-up boarding groups, which aren't guaranteed to be called and some who barely squeaked through the gates at opening could get an early, regular boarding group. There's too much risk of penalization.

 

[nickys]

I guess it depends on if said carousel is gonna be part of the Fastpass+ system or not. If it is, it goes into that system, but if not, it just opens and nothing changes for the system above until the next D or E-Ticket opens.

As to the second point, Disney seems hellbent on utilizing Fastpass+ as a front of the line pass for far too many people, and as long as they do you’re going to continue to see nightmarish standby waits. They seem content with two-three hour waits for headliners, so my idea is to help prevent waits above that threshold within their absurd process for using the system.

Dumbo has FP and is a simple spinner. If something like that opened next in the U.K. and Rise was still having reliability issues, that simply couldn’t happen. An FP is a promise to ride. They cannot keep that promise if the ride can not operate reliably. And the compensation of an FP for the next day then compounds the problem the next day.

 

[Purduevian]

Because some of those who made the extra effort to get there at 6:30 am will still end up with back-up boarding groups, which aren't guaranteed to be called and some who barely squeaked through the gates at opening could get an early, regular boarding group. There's too much risk of penalization.

Isn't that the current system? There is no advantage to the people that get there at 3am vs in the gate at 6:59am

 

[disneygeek90]

Question: you had two hours to get to RotR. Why didn’t you just ride ToT and then head over?

It was the 3rd day the attraction was open and I was anxious to get on. They had a lot of technical difficulties that morning so I really wanted to get over there as soon as we were called. I don't regret skipping ToT one bit, since the ride broke down at 27 for an hour or two we were the first group called when it came back up and basically walked right into the first preshow. An awesome first experience.

 

[Jones14]

Dumbo has FP and is a simple spinner. If something like that opened next in the U.K. and Rise was still having reliability issues, that simply couldn’t happen. An FP is a promise to ride. They cannot keep that promise if the ride can not operate reliably. And the compensation of an FP for the next day then compounds the problem the next day.

Right, which is why if they opened up a UK spinner next after Rise then Rise would still be Standby only until the next attraction after that opened. Most rides open at least one year apart, so that gives them two full years per ride to get it running reliably enough to handle Fastpass.

Rise is in a unique circumstance with Mickey and Rat just around the corner, but three months of boarding groups and another four of standby only is still better than what they did with Flight of Passage.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Isn't that the current system? There is no advantage to the people that get there at 3am vs in the gate at 6:59am

Not really. Those who get there at 6:30 are closer to the front of the lines for security and the turnstiles than someone who shows up later and has to wait behind all those people and who may or may not get through the turnstiles before 7am. Basically, someone who is closer to the front is more "ready" to get themselves a boarding group than someone who is racing against the clock.

 

[UNCgolf]

Not really. Those who get there at 6:30 are closer to the front of the lines for security and the turnstiles than someone who shows up later and has to wait behind all those people and who may or may not get through the turnstiles before 7am. Basically, someone who is closer to the front is more "ready" to get themselves a boarding group than someone who is racing against the clock.

As long as they're inside the park, though, it's still essentially random. There's still no benefit to being there 20 minutes earlier than someone else as long as both parties are inside the gates when the BGs open. Someone could have gotten in at 6:30 AM, have a slight app issue, and end up with BG 70 whereas the person who got in at 6:59 has everything go right and get BG 5.

 

[disneygeek90]

As long as they're inside the park, though, it's still essentially random. There's still no benefit to being there 20 minutes earlier than someone else as long as you're inside the gates when the BGs open.

It appears more random than it is, though. The people getting lower groups are absolutely working the app faster than the person that pulls 85. At the end of the day I would rather my fate be left in my own hands (literally).

 

[ImperfectPixie]

As long as they're inside the park, though, it's still essentially random. There's still no benefit to being there 20 minutes earlier than someone else as long as you're inside the gates when the BGs open.

Yes, but if I'm reading correctly, the other poster is saying randomize ALL boarding group distribution - including the back-up groups. As in mix them together.

 

[UNCgolf]

It appears more random than it is, though. The people getting lower groups are absolutely working the app faster than the person that pulls 85. At the end of the day I would rather my fate be left in my own hands (literally).

Oh for sure. I didn't really mean literally random; I meant both of those people have the same chance at getting a high boarding group depending on how the app works for them. There's no reason to show up at 6 AM.

 

[UNCgolf]

Yes, but if I'm reading correctly, the other poster is saying randomize ALL boarding group distribution - including the back-up groups.

I won't be surprised if that's how it ends up if this system is still in place once spring (or especially summer) rolls around, because there will be more people at the parks in general, which means more people showing up early for a BG. Eventually they are going to hit a critical point where every single guaranteed group is gone within a few seconds of the park opening and a lot of people end up with backups despite being there at opening. It could even get to the point where someone who is there at opening can't even get a backup group, but that's less likely.

At the moment though, yes, it's not happening like that.

 

[disneygeek90]

I won't be surprised if that's how it ends up if this system is still in place once spring (or especially summer) rolls around, because there will be more people at the parks in general, which means more people showing up early for a BG. Eventually they are going to hit a critical point where every single guaranteed group is gone within a few seconds of the park opening and a lot of people end up with backups despite being there at opening. It could even get to the point where someone who is there at opening can't even get a backup group, but that's less likely.

At the moment though, yes, it's not happening like that.

They did make it through Christmas and NYE fine, though. And that was even when the ride was only a couple weeks old.

 

[JoQuo711]

Yes, but if I'm reading correctly, the other poster is saying randomize ALL boarding group distribution - including the back-up groups.

What I was suggesting would only be for pre-opening - and at opening time it would revert to the current system. I was thinking if they have enough guaranteed boarding groups to cover the people there pre-opening, then everyone would get a (random) guaranteed group. At park opening, it would revert to the current system giving out the remaining boarding groups, then back-up groups in order of request.

If more people are there before opening than spots in guaranteed groups, some of them will (at random) get the earliest back-up groups, but it would still revert to the current system for the later back-up groups for anyone requesting a group after park opening.

I guess I was just trying to think of a way to avoid starting the day with a high stakes fastest finger/cellular data game. Like UNCgolf said, it's probably going to get worse as we move towards summer and definitely will when opening times shift back to 8 or 9. But I'd be really surprised if they change anything until they're ready to replace the system either partially or fully with FP+ and/or stand-by.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

What I was suggesting would only be for pre-opening - and at opening time it would revert to the current system. I was thinking if they have enough guaranteed boarding groups to cover the people there pre-opening, then everyone would get a (random) guaranteed group. At park opening, it would revert to the current system giving out the remaining boarding groups, then back-up groups in order of request.

If more people are there before opening than spots in guaranteed groups, some of them will (at random) get the earliest back-up groups, but it would still revert to the current system for the later back-up groups for anyone requesting a group after park opening.

I guess I was just trying to think of a way to avoid starting the day with a high stakes fastest finger/cellular data game. Like UNCgolf said, it's probably going to get worse as we move towards summer and definitely will when opening times shift back to 8 or 9. But I'd be really surprised if they change anything until they're ready to replace the system either partially or fully with FP+ and/or stand-by.

Gotcha. Yeah, it'd be nice if there weren't more demand than ride availability throughout all the parks, but we'd need a time machine for that. I really wish we could see what would happen if they removed FP+ and line manipulation.

 

[nickys]

It appears more random than it is, though. The people getting lower groups are absolutely working the app faster than the person that pulls 85. At the end of the day I would rather my fate be left in my own hands (literally).

Maybe not. Someone posted how this uses a “no priority” algorithm, so really it is allocating the BGs completely randomly. Not sure if they know for sure or speculating though.

 

[nickys]

FP is not a promise to ride. You will not find any wording in official Disney docs that FP is anything more than a way to hold your place in line. There is a page somewhere on the Disney site (and perhaps in the FP booking) that says not all attractions may be available during a visit and are subject to going down at any time (my paraphrasing). FPs get canceled all the time when a ride goes down, and then you get one of the special FPs as a replacement.

Yes, but there are several thousand people each day with an FP. Those anytime Fps being given to those whose BG is not called are valid for the ride in question, which could swell the number the next day by 50%. That could mean those who have FPs for the end of the day will not get on.

That doesn’t happen with FPs unless a ride is down.

 

[UNCgolf]

They did make it through Christmas and NYE fine, though. And that was even when the ride was only a couple weeks old.

Wasn't it still functioning as first come first served for most of that, though? When did they switch to only allowing BGs when the park opened rather than letting people get them at 5:30-6 AM?

 

[disneygeek90]

Maybe not. Someone posted how this uses a “no priority” algorithm, so really it is allocating the BGs completely randomly. Not sure if they know for sure or speculating though.

My experience points to no randomness. The days I had group 39 and 57 I was definitely slower than days I got 20 or less.