VQ/BGs (Virtual Queues/Boarding Groups)... Yay or Nay? (Better alternatives?)

[Purduevian]

Why? People are able to hold multiple fastpasses at once. Disney isn't going to penalize people for wanting to ride Rise...they might as well shove them out of the gates and invite them to spend money elsewhere if they do that.

This doesn't make any sense. If I have a slinky fastpass at 8am and I have BG 65, why can't I ride slinky at 8?

You shouldn't have to sacrifice your whole day and scheduled fastpasses for a chance to ride one attraction.

Why? Because it makes a sacrifice in order to "Get in Line" for RotR, the same as if there was only a standby line. Using FoP as an example, If I choose to Rope Drop FoP at 9am (park opening) and have an Everest FP for 9am, I have to make a choice if the experience will take me more than an hour.

By forcing people to make a sacrifice of some sort to get in "line" (which they do for every other attraction in every other amusement park in the world) it will naturally balance out how many boarding passes out people are willing to grab, because there is a sacrifice to grabbing it. In theory this would cause Boarding passes to last longer as some people would not give up their days worth of fastpasses for Boarding Group 120... but to other people this is worth it. Just like getting into a 4 hour line isn't worth it to some people... but to some it is.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Why? Because it makes a sacrifice in order to "Get in Line" for RotR, the same as if there was only a standby line. Using FoP as an example, If I choose to Rope Drop FoP at 9am (park opening) and have an Everest FP for 9am, I have to make a choice if the experience will take me more than an hour.

By forcing people to make a sacrifice of some sort to get in "line" (which they do for every other attraction in every other amusement park in the world) it will naturally balance out how many boarding passes out people are willing to grab, because there is a sacrifice to grabbing it. In theory this would cause Boarding passes to last longer as some people would not give up their days worth of fastpasses for Boarding Group 120... but to other people this is worth it.

Your example would only possibly work if they limited the Fastpass exclusion to Hollywood Studios and allowed Fastpasses in other parks.

ETA: I still think it's ridiculous though and would be begging for LOTS of trouble.

 

[disneygeek90]

Why? Because it makes a sacrifice in order to "Get in Line" for RotR, the same as if there was only a standby line. Using FoP as an example, If I choose to Rope Drop FoP at 9am (park opening) and have an Everest FP for 9am, I have to make a choice if the experience will take me more than an hour.

By forcing people to make a sacrifice of some sort to get in "line" (which they do for every other attraction in every other amusement park in the world) it will naturally balance out how many boarding passes out people are willing to grab, because there is a sacrifice to grabbing it. In theory this would cause Boarding passes to last longer as some people would not give up their days worth of fastpasses for Boarding Group 120... but to other people this is worth it.

If you know you are going to rope drop at 9am for FoP you won't schedule an Everest fastpass at 9am... Boarding groups are different because you don't know when you're actually able to ride.

Obtaining a BG is more ambiguous than rope dropping FoP and you should have more flexibility around it. There's actually even more risk already to "give up" a FP, as maybe you end up getting called 30 mins before your actual FP and decide you'd rather give up the FP to get on Rise ASAP. My first ride I was called at 11:05, had a ToT FP I hadn't used yet at 10:30. I easily threw in the towel to get on Rise. But that was my choice, it shouldn't be a requirement.

 

[disneygeek90]

Your example would only possibly work if they limited the Fastpass exclusion to Hollywood Studios and allowed Fastpasses in other parks.

ETA: I still think it's ridiculous though and would be begging for LOTS of trouble.

Guest Relations is already neck deep in trouble seemingly every day. I can't even imagine what would take place if people with a BG of 91 were told they cannot use any of their 11am, 1pm, and 2pm fastpasses so that their can keep their BG that might be called "sometime" in the afternoon.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Guest Relations is already neck deep in trouble seemingly every day. I can't even imagine what would take place if people with a BG of 91 were told they cannot use any of their 11am, 1pm, and 2pm fastpasses so that their can keep their BG that might be called "sometime" in the afternoon.

Agreed.

 

[Purduevian]

Your example would only possibly work if they limited the Fastpass exclusion to Hollywood Studios and allowed Fastpasses in other parks.

ETA: I still think it's ridiculous though and would be begging for LOTS of trouble.

Why would they have to limit the fastpass exclusion to HS? If you want to hold a boarding pass for RoTR, no fastpass for you as you are currently in 1 virtual line. Just like I can't have a SDD fastpass for 9:30-10:30 and a test track for 9:35-10:35. I view it as the alternative to a 4 hour line. I couldn't physically get in a line for FOP right now (180 minute wait) AND make my Noon seven Dwarfs fastpass... I have to make a choice.

If you know you are going to rope drop at 9am for FoP you won't schedule an Everest fastpass at 9am... Boarding groups are different because you don't know when you're actually able to ride.

Obtaining a BG is more ambiguous than rope dropping FoP and you should have more flexibility around it. There's actually even more risk already to "give up" a FP, as maybe they end up getting called 30 mins before their actual FP and decide they'd rather give up the FP to get on Rise ASAP. My first ride I was called at 11:05, had a ToT FP I hadn't used yet at 10:30. I easily threw in the towel to get on Rise. But that was my choice, it shouldn't be a requirement.

Ahh so sacrificed a FP to get on RotR and were ok with it?

Guest Relations is already neck deep in trouble seemingly every day. I can't even imagine what would take place if people with a BG of 91 were told they cannot use any of their 11am, 1pm, and 2pm fastpasses so that their can keep their BG that might be called "sometime" in the afternoon.

But you CAN use those fastpasses if you want to, you just have to give up your spot in line for RotR. That spot that would then be used for someone that is willing to give up all their fastpasses from 11- calling.

This system would have all the benefits of the current boarding group system, while also have the advantage of BGs lasting longer into the day (some people would not pick up a BG because FPs are worth more to them) AND allow late arrivals a chance a BGs as some people would cancel throughout the day (just keep checking like that day of FoP FP).

I realize that this would upset some people, while making other people happier (they would get on RoTR while otherwise they would not have). It is an attempt to spread the wealth of skipping lines, just like FP Tiers.

 

[disneygeek90]

Ahh so sacrificed a FP to get on RotR and were ok with it?

I was, yes. Though I really could have gone on ToT and then back to Rise in plenty of time. To me that's just a terrible thing to require of guests that are on vacation and can't just come back and ride the other rides whenever. I just don't see this even close to a good option.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Why would they have to limit the fastpass exclusion to HS? If you want to hold a boarding pass for RoTR, no fastpass for you as you are currently in 1 virtual line. Just like I can't have a SDD fastpass for 9:30-10:30 and a test track for 9:35-10:35. I view it as the alternative to a 4 hour line. I couldn't physically get in a line for FOP right now (180 minute wait) AND make my Noon seven Dwarfs fastpass... I have to make a choice.



Ahh so sacrificed a FP to get on RotR and were ok with it?


But you CAN use those fastpasses if you want to, you just have to give up your spot in line for RotR. That spot that would then be used for someone that is willing to give up all their fastpasses from 11- calling.

This system would have all the benefits of the current boarding group system, while also have the advantage of BGs lasting longer into the day (some people would not pick up a BG because FPs are worth more to them) AND allow late arrivals a chance a BGs as some people would cancel throughout the day (just keep checking like that day of FoP FP).

I realize that this would upset some people, while making other people happier (they would get on RoTR while otherwise they would not have). It is an attempt to spread the wealth of skipping lines, just like FP Tiers.

They'd lose too much money and have almost rioting at Guest Services. Personally, I'd get rid of all manner of line manipulation, but that's just me. Boarding groups are just as much in place to benefit operations as they are for guest satisfaction. There's no better way to benefit both of those groups.

 

[flynnibus]

I really think a big issue with the current system is the lack of "Trade offs" required to hold a boarding pass. Yes, people need to get up early, but other than that, they are free to go about their day the exact same way as someone that does not have a boarding pass. My solution:

Boarding Groups now require you to NOT use Fastpasses while holding. If you attempt to use a fastpass while holding a boarding pass, the little Mickey will turn Yellow and a cast member will be there to give you two options, Sacrifice your current fastpass OR sacrifice your Boarding pass.

So you think making guest wait and be blocked out from other FPs is somehow better for guests??

You're basically saying everyone who gets a BG needs to be punished - that's not customer friendly at all.

 

[flynnibus]

Why? Because it makes a sacrifice in order to "Get in Line" for RotR, the same as if there was only a standby line. Using FoP as an example, If I choose to Rope Drop FoP at 9am (park opening) and have an Everest FP for 9am, I have to make a choice if the experience will take me more than an hour.

By forcing people to make a sacrifice of some sort to get in "line" (which they do for every other attraction in every other amusement park in the world) it will naturally balance out how many boarding passes out people are willing to grab, because there is a sacrifice to grabbing it. In theory this would cause Boarding passes to last longer as some people would not give up their days worth of fastpasses for Boarding Group 120... but to other people this is worth it. Just like getting into a 4 hour line isn't worth it to some people... but to some it is.

Sorry - your system is stupid.

At that point, it is pointless to have BGs at all. You've just gone back to original FP with return times.

The lack of 'trade offs' is the positive in the system for the guest.. not the problem. The demand is always going to be far more than the ride can handle.. so the BG without any tradeoffs is the compensation to the guest that diffuses the inevitable massive wait.

Your model tries to reduce demand by incurring a penalty... that won't work for this kind of attraction with such a demand. All you do is people off.

 

[Purduevian]

Sorry - your system is stupid.

At that point, it is pointless to have BGs at all. You've just gone back to original FP with return times.

The lack of 'trade offs' is the positive in the system for the guest.. not the problem. The demand is always going to be far more than the ride can handle.. so the BG without any tradeoffs is the compensation to the guest that diffuses the inevitable massive wait.

Your model tries to reduce demand by incurring a penalty... that won't work for this kind of attraction with such a demand. All you do is **** people off.

Yes, I was trying to induce some sort of penalty for having a Boarding Group, as I see the lack of one the biggest flaws in the whole system. Clearly people don't like the idea of loosing fastpass, but honestly that was the mildest solution I can think of. In fact the only other 2 virtual queue systems currently in Orlando are far far harsher. Dumbo forces people in the virtual queue to be contained in an area without the ability to explore the rest of the park. Tapu Tapu at Volcano bay is a little more freeing in that people are free to buy food, relax, and do some high capacity activities such as the lazy river, but still restricts you to not riding any more big rides.

I honestly wonder would would happen if Disney opened Boarding Passes for something if far far less demand like Dumbo. I assume Dumbo boarding passes would sell out within the first few hours of the park opening. Why? Because who wouldn't join a Dumbo boarding group? There is no trade off. The current system is exasperating the current demand vs capacity issue, because why wouldn't you join a boarding group? There is no reason not to!

The only other solution with a "trade off" I can think of is $$ to join a boarding group (refunded if you don't ride) although I imagine this would cause extreme outrage in the fan base. Maybe there isn't a good trade off system for WDW, but I do wonder if making your Boarding Pass act as a Fastpass (thus blocking you from getting another one) would actually work in Disneyland where they don't prebook fastpass so early.

 

[flynnibus]

I honestly wonder would would happen if Disney opened Boarding Passes for something if far far less demand like Dumbo. I assume Dumbo boarding passes would sell out within the first few hours of the park opening. Why? Because who wouldn't join a Dumbo boarding group? There is no trade off. The current system is exasperating the current demand vs capacity issue, because why wouldn't you join a boarding group? There is no reason not to!

You're comparing apples and oranges tho.

Yes, 'no penalty' would be abused in a system where you say 'why not?'. But that's not the environment RoTR is operating in. RoTR is opening in an environment where demand so greatly exceeds supply that there is no need to worry about 'abuse'. It's completely insignificant to the mountain of demand that out weighs it.

No one is showing up at DHS at 6:30 and going... 'oh, this RoTR thing.. why not?'. The number of people grabbing passes because they would 'at all costs' is basically unlimited at this point. The number of 'we got one just because...' is a hypothetical that is irrelevant in these demand situations.

Yes, it doesn't work the same for all other attraction scenarios... but.. so what? It's not being used for all other attraction scenarios.

BGs are decoupled from FP as a customer value.. as a compensation so guests are not being punished for what is an abnormal pattern vs their normal visiting experience.

Penalizing people from wanting to ride is not going to reduce demand. Just people off. Not good business sense.

 

[nickys]

If you know you are going to rope drop at 9am for FoP you won't schedule an Everest fastpass at 9am... Boarding groups are different because you don't know when you're actually able to ride.

Obtaining a BG is more ambiguous than rope dropping FoP and you should have more flexibility around it. There's actually even more risk already to "give up" a FP, as maybe you end up getting called 30 mins before your actual FP and decide you'd rather give up the FP to get on Rise ASAP. My first ride I was called at 11:05, had a ToT FP I hadn't used yet at 10:30. I easily threw in the towel to get on Rise. But that was my choice, it shouldn't be a requirement.

For info, there are multiple reports that CMs are allowing people who have BGs but miss their time slot due to ADRs, FPs or other reservations (droid or light sabre building) to ride afterwards.

 

[Jones14]

I think that the procedure should be:

Newest ride - Boarding Groups
2nd Newest - Standby Only
3rd Newest - Fastpass+ and Standby

To me, this is the most guest and operations-friendly way to handle things. The Boarding Groups keep the six hour lines away because they can control the number of people in line as they try to get to a reasonable throughput (Rise at the moment), at which point Standby only becomes a worthwhile option (Falcon at the moment), and then they can add Fastpass+ once it’s not the shiny new toy anymore and demand has normalized.

 

[nickys]

If you know you are going to rope drop at 9am for FoP you won't schedule an Everest fastpass at 9am... Boarding groups are different because you don't know when you're actually able to ride.

Obtaining a BG is more ambiguous than rope dropping FoP and you should have more flexibility around it. There's actually even more risk already to "give up" a FP, as maybe you end up getting called 30 mins before your actual FP and decide you'd rather give up the FP to get on Rise ASAP. My first ride I was called at 11:05, had a ToT FP I hadn't used yet at 10:30. I easily threw in the towel to get on Rise. But that was my choice, it shouldn't be a requirement.

Question: you had two hours to get to RotR. Why didn’t you just ride ToT and then head over?

 

[Purduevian]

You're comparing apples and oranges tho.

Yes, 'no penalty' would be abused in a system where you say 'why not?'. But that's not the environment RoTR is operating in. RoTR is opening in an environment where demand so greatly exceeds supply that there is no need to worry about 'abuse'. It's completely insignificant to the mountain of demand that out weighs it.

No one is showing up at DHS at 6:30 and going... 'oh, this RoTR thing.. why not?'. The number of people grabbing passes because they would 'at all costs' is basically unlimited at this point. The number of 'we got one just because...' is a hypothetical that is irrelevant in these demand situations.

Yes, it doesn't work the same for all other attraction scenarios... but.. so what? It's not being used for all other attraction scenarios.

BGs are decoupled from FP as a customer value.. as a compensation so guests are not being punished for what is an abnormal pattern vs their normal visiting experience.

Penalizing people from wanting to ride is not going to reduce demand. Just **** people off. Not good business sense.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree that boarding passes are causing extra demand for RotR. I 100% agree that there would still be people at the gates at 6:30 am to join a boarding group, no matter the trade off. I just think there would be less of them, thus allowing more people to join boarding groups later. Personally, if I was at Disney World right now, I would be there at 6:30am ready to play the Boarding group lottery. If the BG lottery had another trade off (such as not allowing me extra fastpasses after my initial 3 that day or something like that) I'm not so sure I would do it, but maybe that person who missed the first bus at their resort and shows up at 7:10am to DHS gets a regular boarding pass instead of a back up, because I wasn't willing to make the tradeoff and they were.

Overall, you have convinced me that not being able to use other fastpasses while holding a BG is far to punishing and I agree it was a bad idea, however, I still think the system would work better if there was some sort of trade off.

 

[nickys]

I think that the procedure should be:

Newest ride - Boarding Groups
2nd Newest - Standby Only
3rd Newest - Fastpass+ and Standby

To me, this is the most guest and operations-friendly way to handle things. The Boarding Groups keep the six hour lines away because they can control the number of people in line as they try to get to a reasonable throughput (Rise at the moment), at which point Standby only becomes a worthwhile option (Falcon at the moment), and then they can add Fastpass+ once it’s not the shiny new toy anymore and demand has normalized.

But what if the newest ride is a carousel? And the third newest ride is still a) the most popular and b) unreliable?

FoP has been open for almost three years now and lines can still be four hours long.

 

[JoQuo711]

While I haven't experienced it myself, I've been following along with great interest, and it does seem like the boarding group system is probably the best they can do given the current state of ride operations. However, it seems kind of... inane? to have thousands of people simultaneously trying to get a group only in the few seconds after 7:00:00 every morning.

A proposal for slight modification that would seem to make a lot of sense... if you scan into the park pre-opening, as soon as you're scanned in you can click something in the app that allows you to "request a boarding pass." Then at 7am, boarding groups would be randomly assigned to the individuals/groups in the park who requested them. If more folks requested than they're giving out, some of those would randomly get back-up groups. Based on the back-up passes lasting at least an hour into normal opening, it doesn't seem like anyone who did this would fail to get at least a back-up group. I'm sure a proposal like this has come up elsewhere, but I don't recall seeing it if it has, and I didn't see it in this thread.

I don't really think there's a "fairness" aspect of someone who requested their group at 7:00:01 getting one 70 groups ahead of someone who requested at 7:00:30. It's more likely that the latter had a lot of people to select, had issues with the app, connection issues, etc., etc. There must be a bunch of people in guest relations every morning a few minutes after 7 who had app/connection issues and ended up with a back-up group because of it. I realize this system would probably work against most of us here who have been following along with all of the strategies, but it does seem like it would be generally more fair.

 

[nickys]

While I haven't experienced it myself, I've been following along with great interest, and it does seem like the boarding group system is probably the best they can do given the current state of ride operations. However, it seems kind of... inane? to have thousands of people simultaneously trying to get a group only in the few seconds after 7:00:00 every morning.

A proposal for slight modification that would seem to make a lot of sense... if you scan into the park pre-opening, as soon as you're scanned in you can click something in the app that allows you to "request a boarding pass." Then at 7am, boarding groups would be randomly assigned to the individuals/groups in the park who requested them. If more folks requested than they're giving out, some of those would randomly get back-up groups. Based on the back-up passes lasting at least an hour into normal opening, it doesn't seem like anyone who did this would fail to get at least a back-up group. I'm sure a proposal like this has come up elsewhere, but I don't recall seeing it if it has, and I didn't see it in this thread.

I don't really think there's a "fairness" aspect of someone who requested their group at 7:00:01 getting one 70 groups ahead of someone who requested at 7:00:30. It's more likely that the latter had a lot of people to select, had issues with the app, connection issues, etc., etc. There must be a bunch of people in guest relations every morning a few minutes after 7 who had app/connection issues and ended up with a back-up group because of it. I realize this system would probably work against most of us here who have been following along with all of the strategies, but it does seem like it would be generally more fair.

There have been several days where all BGs, regular and back-up have been gone in 15 minutes.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

While I haven't experienced it myself, I've been following along with great interest, and it does seem like the boarding group system is probably the best they can do given the current state of ride operations. However, it seems kind of... inane? to have thousands of people simultaneously trying to get a group only in the few seconds after 7:00:00 every morning.

A proposal for slight modification that would seem to make a lot of sense... if you scan into the park pre-opening, as soon as you're scanned in you can click something in the app that allows you to "request a boarding pass." Then at 7am, boarding groups would be randomly assigned to the individuals/groups in the park who requested them. If more folks requested than they're giving out, some of those would randomly get back-up groups. Based on the back-up passes lasting at least an hour into normal opening, it doesn't seem like anyone who did this would fail to get at least a back-up group. I'm sure a proposal like this has come up elsewhere, but I don't recall seeing it if it has, and I didn't see it in this thread.

I don't really think there's a "fairness" aspect of someone who requested their group at 7:00:01 getting one 70 groups ahead of someone who requested at 7:00:30. It's more likely that the latter had a lot of people to select, had issues with the app, connection issues, etc., etc. There must be a bunch of people in guest relations every morning a few minutes after 7 who had app/connection issues and ended up with a back-up group because of it. I realize this system would probably work against most of us here who have been following along with all of the strategies, but it does seem like it would be generally more fair.

In that case, people are still being penalized even though they made the effort to get to the park early. I still believe the current iteration is about as fair as things can get.