VGF

[nickys]

My guess is that they will do one floor, and declare that floor initially. Then work on converting the other floors one at a time. I totally agree with you that they will not declare it all at once.

In the other VGF thread in News, a person that claims to work at GF states that occupancy has been between 90-95% since the resorts opening last year. If so, that blows out some people's claim that Disney is only interested in converting those rooms because they can't get anyone to stay there, and I tend to believe him over the naysayers. I always thought they were trying to give DVC members more choices on where to stay, and the VGF has always been very hard to get into at 7 months. This will open up a lot more availability for us. We will definitely stay there at some point after they open.

I saw that post and I don’t think he’s correct. GF was the only resort to be giving out discounts of up to 80% in some cases to people to encourage them to book. Now maybe after they did that, bookings rose to that kind of level, but it doesn’t make sense they would give discounts like that if it was already at 90% occupancy.

 

[Disone]

He only mentioned what has happened since the resort opened last year, so I'm of a mind to believe him. The insiders were claiming issues before the pandemic. I haven't heard any talk since then. But you may be right. Even though he works there, he may be stretching the truth or only going by his personal observation, and not actual hard data. Either way, I don't care as I welcome the change that will give us a better chance to reserve a room there going forward.

Incorrect. I have mentioned what business was like before the covid shutdown and what it was like after.

I won't share specifics but I assure you I'm not going by personal opinion or observations. The occupancy was solid and I'm going by historical data that is available to me. There's a lot of misunderstanding of how Resorts work.

People think because reservations are walked from moderate to a deluxe that clearly they can't sell the deluxe. This is not the case. There are fluctuations and revenue management will do things to balance out.

There are also times when values are oversold and they reservations are walked to moderates. That doesn't mean there's a problem selling moderates.

Grand Floridian was consistently in the 90 something percents daily. Today its at 87%. Both of it's concierge buildings have been opened up and used due to the high demand for rooms. They weren't ready to open concierge because of social distancing concerns but they needed the rooms due to demand. Again there's no issue with demand for its rooms. I guess in some ways wish there were because I do believe the Grand Floridian has fallen behind the 8-ball

Before the shut dowm I literally worry about the refurbushment being cancelled because of the demand for these room. The refurbishment for the grand rooms will start after the 50th Anniversary has started and my concerned was/is they will no longer be willing to shut down a building to refurbish it while demand for the rooms in that building will be at Peak levels. Fingers crossed.

 

[Disone]

I saw that post and I don’t think he’s correct. GF was the only resort to be giving out discounts of up to 80% in some cases to people to encourage them to book. Now maybe after they did that, bookings rose to that kind of level, but it doesn’t make sense they would give discounts like that if it was already at 90% occupancy.

I see there's been some confusion. My bad. Daily 90% occupancy or higher was present in January February and March of 2020. This is prior to the shut down. A review of my own post I don't know that I was clear on that. I'm talking about pre shut down. And that really was my point at the Grand Floridian was doing just fine prior to the covid shutdown.

Now in January of 21 the Grand Floridian did offer some rates I have not seen (at wdw ) since the late 1990s. These were not 80% discounts though but rather standard rates that were offered to everyone. Anyone could have book them on third-party websites if they looked.

This was not due to a specific problem with the demand at Disney's Grand Floridian the other two deluxe's that were open. It was a combination of post-holiday season meets post covid reopening recovery.

Clearly the other Deluxe has remained closed so there was less of a demand for deluxe's at wdw but again not specific to the Grand. The fact that the grand was one of only three that were chosen have its deluxe rooms reopened should tell you that. Additionally also it should be noted that both the Contemporary and the Polynesian have had their refurbishments prioritized ahead of the Grand Floridian. The need to increase demand and desirability for those Deluxe rooms was just higher than the need to do so at the Grand.

After building occupancy nicely at all three of the deluxe's that were open during the holiday season of 2020 Occupancy remained pretty soft afterwards until the spring break period of 2021 Kicked off in mid-February and which at that time we thought was only going to last until mid-march. Demand never faded and continues to grow.

Edited for clearity @1030pm

 

[nickys]

I see there's been some confusion. My bad. Daily 90% occupancy or higher was present in January February and March of 2020. This is prior to the shut down. A review of my own post I don't know that I was clear on that. I'm talking about pre shut down. And that really was my point at the Grand Floridian was doing just fine prior to the covid shutdown.

Now in January of 21 the Grand Floridian did offer some rates I have not seen (at wdw ) since the late 1990s. These were not 80% discounts though but rather standard rates that were offered to everyone. Anyone could have book them on third-party websites if they looked.

This was not due to a specific problem with the demand at Disney's Grand Floridian the other two deluxe's that were open. It was a combination of post-holiday season meets post covid reopening recovery.

Clearly the other Deluxe has remained closed so there was less of a demand for deluxe's at wdw but again not specific to the Grand. The fact that the grand was one of only three that were chosen have its deluxe rooms reopened should tell you that. Additionally also it should be noted that both the Contemporary and the Polynesian have had their refurbishments prioritized ahead of the Grand Floridian. The need to increase demand and desirability for those Deluxe rooms was just higher than the need to do so at the Grand.

After building occupancy nicely at all three of the deluxe's that were open during the holiday season of 2020 Occupancy remained pretty soft afterwards until the spring break period of 2021 Kicked off in mid-February and which at that time we thought was only going to last until mid-march. Demand never faded and continues to grow.

Edited for clearity @1030pm

Thanks for the clarification. However about those discounts .... there were general discounts available through TAs etc sure. But there were reports of people who had previously stayed at the GF once or twice getting PIN codes for huge discounts. There’s a thread about one here, on the DIS and other forums. And yes, it was up at 70-80% off rack rate in some cases.

@Tuvalu might remember which thread, she commented that she hadn’t got one.

Also, one major reason for the GF being one of the deluxe resorts being re-opened first was because of the NBA League. Since the rooms were being used and hotel operations were up and running, it would have made zero sense for it not to open. It is also their flag-ship resort.

 

[Disone]

Thanks for the clarification. However about those discounts .... there were general discounts available through TAs etc sure. But there were reports of people who had previously stayed at the GF once or twice getting PIN codes for huge discounts. There’s a thread about one here, on the DIS and other forums. And yes, it was up at 70-80% off rack rate in some cases.

@Tuvalu might remember which thread, she commented that she hadn’t got one.

Also, one major reason for the GF being one of the deluxe resorts being re-opened first was because of the NBA League. Since the rooms were being used and hotel operations were up and running, it would have made zero sense for it not to open. It is also their flag-ship resort.

80% off offer....certainly was not any meaningful marketing effort behind it. Rates at all the opened deluxe resorts, Grand, Contemp, and Yacht were extremely low in January of this year. Again due to post holiday during a Pandemic.

And you are correct. Closing an NBA bubble Resort after the NBA left and then reopening another Resort instead would not have made sense. The resorts that opened for the NBA bubble were all resorts that were intended to remain open after the NBA. Part of the reason why they were selected was because they already sell themselves.

Yacht Club has Stormalong Bay and newer rooms and sells itself. Coronado Springs as Grand Distino Tower and sells itself. The Grand Floridian as the flagship, also sells itself.

Before concluding that Grand Floridian is suffering from low demand consider a few factors.

If you over sell a value or a moderate you can move guests to a higher caliber Resort. It's not necessarily A great experience but at least there's an upgrade involved. Grand Floridian it's tough to oversell and that does make Revenue management a little less aggressive with Grand's selling strategy. Additionally it the second largest inventory of deluxe rooms and only Animal Kingdom Lodge has more.

I do think it is demand-driven but not because the Grand Floridian is struggling to sell its available inventory of deluxe rooms. It's more of a reflection of supply and demand for deluxe rooms at Walt Disney World vs DVC Villas at Walt Disney World and right now due to its high demand and relatively low Supply, DVC is winning that battle.

I predict this will make the remaining inventory of Grand Floridian deluxe room even higher priced than they already are.

 

[Joe]

Grand Floridian was consistently in the 90 something percents daily. Today its at 87%. Both of it's concierge buildings have been opened up and used due to the high demand for rooms. They weren't ready to open concierge because of social distancing concerns but they needed the rooms due to demand. Again there's no issue with demand for its rooms.

So in your opinion, why are they taking 200 rooms out of inventory and converting a whole building to DVC studios?

 

[SteveAZee]

So in your opinion, why are they taking 200 rooms out of inventory and converting a whole building to DVC studios?

I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but perhaps it's a way to get more cash into the coffers of Disney over the next couple of years (from DVC sales) to make the books look 'back on track' sooner?

 

[Disone]

So in your opinion, why are they taking 200 rooms out of inventory and converting a whole building to DVC studios

I thought i answered that. The demand for dvc won the battle.

Modified but mostly From my own post.....

I do think it is demand-driven but not because the Grand Floridian is struggling to sell its available inventory of deluxe rooms. Espesially post Covid It's more of a reflection of supply and demand for deluxe rooms at WDW vs DVC Villas at Walt Disney World and right now due to DVC's high demand and relatively low Supply, DVC is winning that battle.

They are taking the second largest inventory of deluxe rooms on property and reducing them to about the size of most of the other Deluxe resorts. The benefit here is they will be able to charge more for the remaining rooms at the Grand while adding to the inventory of the very desirable DVC.

I suspect they believe the worst case scenario is some Grand guess we'll have to choose other Deluxe Resort Resort's to try. They won't lose that Deluxe guest they'll just move/be aborbed by another deluxe Resort or they'll become DVC members.

To disney is all a win win win.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I thought i answered that. The demand for dvc won the battle.

Modified but mostly From my own post.....

I do think it is demand-driven but not because the Grand Floridian is struggling to sell its available inventory of deluxe rooms. Espesially post Covid It's more of a reflection of supply and demand for deluxe rooms at WDW vs DVC Villas at Walt Disney World and right now due to DVC's high demand and relatively low Supply, DVC is winning that battle.

They are taking the second largest inventory of deluxe rooms on property and reducing them to about the size of most of the other Deluxe resorts. The benefit here is they will be able to charge more for the remaining rooms at the Grand while adding to the inventory of the very desirable DVC.

I suspect they believe the worst case scenario is some Grand guess we'll have to choose other Deluxe Resort Resort's to try. They won't lose that Deluxe guest they'll just move/be aborbed by another deluxe Resort or they'll become DVC members.

To disney is all a win win win.

So based upon your assessment, we should expect Reflections to resume any day now...

 

[Disone]

So based upon your assessment, we should expect Reflections to resume any day now...

Not at all.

The discontinuation of Reflections necessitated the need to expand DVC inventory elsewhere.

 

[correcaminos]

Not at all.

The discontinuation of Reflections necessitated the need to expand DVC inventory elsewhere.

This makes no sense to me... by your thoughts they really should've continued with Reflections.

That's been shelved for a reason. Just like they chose VGF expansion for a reason.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Not at all.

The discontinuation of Reflections necessitated the need to expand DVC inventory elsewhere.

But I thought the Grand was booking really well and they desperately need both deluxe rooms and villas? They better start building more villas STAT so they can get those high-demand deluxe rooms back on the market.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That's been shelved for a reason.

Cash.

 

[Disone]

But I thought the Grand was booking really well and they desperately need both deluxe rooms and villas? They better start building more villas STAT so they can get those high-demand deluxe rooms back on the market.

?????? Feel better? Got that off your chest?

I don't understand your snarkiness here.

I'm trying to engage in a meaningful conversation and you just want to throw out one liners are clearly not what I said or meant and add nothing to the conversation and make no sense.

Edit : So in review of yours posts..... I thought you were pretty legit but now that I'm reading them it's just one sarcastic post after another.

Peace out

 

[correcaminos]

Cash.

More specifically the cost to build is not wise given how slow things were going for RR. DVC has RR and likely the CA property. They didn't need a big resort to try to fill especially when not all resorts are open anyway.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

This makes no sense to me... by your thoughts they really should've continued with Reflections.

That's been shelved for a reason. Just like they chose VGF expansion for a reason.

Actually, it makes more sense financially to remodel GF than to build an entirely new resort right now. They'll have it done in about a year as opposed to multiple years to build the new resort.

 

[correcaminos]

Actually, it makes more sense financially to remodel GF than to build an entirely new resort right now. They'll have it done in about a year as opposed to multiple years to build the new resort.

Especially if they don't have a huge need for a full resort. Toss in lower occupancies and there you have it. Pity they didn't do some 1 and 2 beds at PVB too.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Especially if they don't have a huge need for a full resort. Toss in lower occupancies and there you have it. Pity they didn't do some 1 and 2 beds at PVB too.

Oh, I'm not saying that I don't believe @Disone about the numbers. He claims to work there, and really has no reason to make things up. My personal opinion is that DVC has been planning to change over the rooms at GF for years, as there is no way they could get it complete by next year if they hadn't been working on it for multiple years already. I think they changed gears due to COVID, and simply moved up the timeline for the GF redo.

Yes, it would have been nice to have 1 and 2 bdr units at PVB. We stayed in a studio there a few years ago, and it was quite good, but we do prefer the 1 bedroom units for the 2 of us.

 

[correcaminos]

Oh, I'm not saying that I don't believe @Disone about the numbers. He claims to work there, and really has no reason to make things up. My personal opinion is that DVC has been planning to change over the rooms at GF for years, as there is no way they could get it complete by next year if they hadn't been working on it for multiple years already. I think they changed gears due to COVID, and simply moved up the timeline for the GF redo.

Yes, it would have been nice to have 1 and 2 bdr units at PVB. We stayed in a studio there a few years ago, and it was quite good, but we do prefer the 1 bedroom units for the 2 of us.

Rumor has it that they are moving to do more like that. But occupancy is part of why in all cases I am aware. Right now Disney is utilizing all their deluxes in ways they haven't before. When it comes to numbers, I don't believe anyone here thinks they are wrong on their numbers. Some sources are just better and I don't believe these (all here) were told numbers and sharing in ways to intentionally be deceiving.

What numbers do I believe? Honestly I'm not sure exact numbers. It's been reported often deluxes in general are down. That's why we were told DVC took over for all that took rooms from existing inventory.

 

[Disone]

Actually, it makes more sense financially to remodel GF than to build an entirely new resort right now. They'll have it done in about a year as opposed to multiple years to build the new resort.

100% Actually they are remodeling soon.