Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025

[MisterPenguin]

We're talking about the themes of the lands and how they contribute to a cohesive overarching theme for the park as a whole

I don't see that at all.

It's clear Fantasyland in its choice of attractions and IP had absolutely no thought given to Americana culture. It's almost totally a rip-off of European culture. And just because Disney sanitized the stories doesn't make it Americana.

There's a difference between a mid-century American making a theme park from his cultural perspective and making a theme park that intentional uses the theme of mid-century America. Because if you use that metric, then Epic Universal has a theme: Early 21st Century Americana.

 

[JT3000]

IOA does not have a cohesive overarching theme between lands. Port of entry is the only thing that presents any sort of overarching theme to you. The park's original incarnation kind of had a cohesive concept though of the lands being magical, fictional havens for groups of fictional characters to come together. This is the key difference between IOA and the new park - having lands that are not dedicated to one IP while still being IP-based.

Only half of Epic Universe is different from IOA in this way. Nintendo and Monsters are both going to be locations inhabited by characters from multiple IPs that share a common source, just like most of IOA’s original islands (the exception being JP.) A Dreamworks land could be the same, and I still believe they should go in this direction. There’s no reason to focus on only one of their IPs, especially when their brand is recognizable enough for people to understand why all of their films are represented in one area.

 

[Timothy_Q]

I don't get how people can say Magic Kingdom has a park-wide theme when the core layout of the park shares so much with this Epic Universe concept. Just swap out the themed lands of Frontierland and Tomorrowland for IP-driven lands like Nintendo and Fantastic Beasts.

"Magic Kingdom doesn't have a theme because its a similar layout to Epic Universe" has got to be funniest take here

How does Animal Kingdom fit into that theory

 

[lazyboy97o]

Only half of Epic Universe is different from IOA in this way. Nintendo and Monsters are both going to be locations inhabited by characters from multiple IPs that share a common source, just like most of IOA’s original islands (the exception being JP.) A Dreamworks land could be the same, and I still believe they should go in this direction. There’s no reason to focus on only one of their IPs, especially when their brand is recognizable enough for people to understand why all of their films are represented in one area.

Super Nintendo World is only characters that ultimately trace back to Donkey Kong. The characters and locations are part of a shared universe. The monsters have distinct origins but have been associated with each other by Universal and that shared universe is what will be built.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Animal Kingdom obviously has a park-wide theme, nor does it have a similar layout to EU, I never suggested that it does.

We can agree to disagree on what MK and Disneyland are about.

But if you're saying MK has the same layout as EU, then so does DAK, as MK and DAK are exactly the same layout.
Central hub with 4 lands around it, with bridges connecting the lands to the center

 

[JT3000]

Super Nintendo World is only characters that ultimately trace back to Donkey Kong. The characters and locations are part of a shared universe. The monsters have distinct origins but have been associated with each other by Universal and that shared universe is what will be built.

And a shared Monsters universe is no different than a shared Marvel universe. They’re both crossovers under one large umbrella, an overarching brand with subsidiary IPs, if you will, very much like what IOA has.

Mario and Donkey Kong have appeared in various games together, however, the latter’s section of the land appears to be based entirely on his own series, Donkey Kong Country, which is very distinct from Mario’s games. In fact, I don’t believe either character has ever appeared in the main series of the other.

Even the distinct sections of the land itself look to have more separation than the Monsters land. So it’s similar, but with a lot less crossover going on. What truly connects the two sub-sections is the Nintendo brand. And I don’t think we’re seeing everything that this land will eventually encompass when it’s fully complete.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And a shared Monsters universe is no different than a shared Marvel universe. They’re both crossovers under one large umbrella, an overarching brand with subsidiary IPs, if you will, very much like what IOA has.

Mario and Donkey Kong have appeared in various games together, however, the latter’s section of the land appears to be based entirely on his own series, Donkey Kong Country, which is very distinct from Mario’s games. In fact, I don’t believe either character has ever appeared in the main series of the other.

Even the distinct sections of the land itself look to have more separation than the Monsters land. So it’s similar, but with a lot less crossover going on. What truly connects the two sub-sections is the Nintendo brand. And I don’t think we’re seeing everything that this land will eventually encompass when it’s fully complete.

It’s not the same. Ownership and authorship in and of itself do not constitute a shared universe. Per Nintendo, Mario made his first appearance in Donkey Kong. They say they exist together in a shared world outside of just the park. Link and Pikachu are not showing up.

Islands of Adventure is more than just Marvel. There is no Toon Lagooniverse outside the park where Dudley Do-Right is known to exist in the world of Dagwood. The myths and legends of Lost Continent are of various origins. Even the characters of Dr. Seuss do not generally exist in a shared universe as only a few reoccur in different stories.

 

[JT3000]

It’s not the same. Ownership and authorship in and of itself do not constitute a shared universe. Per Nintendo, Mario made his first appearance in Donkey Kong. They say they exist together in a shared world outside of just the park.

I don’t see Mario and DK as a proper shared universe. Not with the way they’re doing it. If they were making a land based on the original Donkey Kong concept, that would be one thing, but they appear to be building sub-lands based on their own separate, fully fleshed out series, where, as far as I know, a shared universe has never actually been demonstrated. This only ever happens in spin-offs, which you might call non-canonical (and usually include many other unrelated characters, bound only by the Nintendo brand.)

Contrast this with the Marvel universe, where characters from other titles can appear anywhere, at any time, in completely canonical stories. But in both cases, it’s really a shared brand that acts as the connective thread. This is why you don’t see Spider-Man hanging out with Superman.

Link and Pikachu are not showing up.

We don’t know that. Anything is still possible.

Islands of Adventure is more than just Marvel. There is no Toon Lagooniverse outside the park where Dudley Do-Right is known to exist in the world of Dagwood. The myths and legends of Lost Continent are of various origins. Even the characters of Dr. Seuss do not generally exist in a shared universe as only a few reoccur in different stories.

The common source doesn’t have to be a shared universe. It can be a brand, a creator, or a particular medium. These are the things connecting IOA’s IPs.

 

[magicallactose]

Magic Kingdom (and all subsequent castle parks) are iterations of Disneyland.
Disneyland's theme is mid century Americana. It's even specified in its dedication.

Does that theme still apply to the entire park after decades of changes and additions? Obviously not.

But they started out with specific themes.
As did every other WDW park. Each with different levels of success in maintaining that theme throughout the years

I think it's a stretch to say that the park's intended 'cohesive theme' is mid-century America. Disneyland was built in mid-century American, yes. And as such, it is a product of the cultural moment that gave birth to it. But it's like saying that the theme of Islands of Adventure is late-twentieth century America simply because it was built in 1999.

Disneyland's Frontierland and Tomorrowland are very much of its time, yes. A moment in history when audiences were eagerly consuming matinee movies about Pirates and space explorers. These lands spoke to what kids of mid-century America fantasized about. But I don't think it can be argued that that mid-century Americana is a theme that was constructed or intended to persist as the decades went on. It's simply what was cool and fun at the time.

Also, a lot of Disneyland is themed to what, at the time of being built, was America's distant past, not what was then the current mid-century: Main Street USA, New Orleans Square, Frontierland. They harken back to the 1800s and early 1900s.

Edit: I just now realized that I essentially echoed, in a more long-winded way, something MisterPenguin posted earlier in the thread. lol

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I don’t see Mario and DK as a proper shared universe. Not with the way they’re doing it. If they were making a land based on the original Donkey Kong concept, that would be one thing, but they appear to be building sub-lands based on their own separate, fully fleshed out series, where, as far as I know, a shared universe has never actually been demonstrated. This only ever happens in spin-offs, which you might call non-canonical (and usually include many other unrelated characters, bound only by the Nintendo brand.)

The events of Donkey Kong happened in both series. Cranky Kong is the original arcade Donkey Kong, the modern DK is either DK Jr. or the son of DK Jr. (it’s a bit confusing). Pauline in Super Mario Odyssey (a main series game) is definitely the same Pauline from the original Donkey Kong. New Donk City is also implied to be the construction site (and the city streets of NDC are named after Donkey Kong Country characters).

Mario has also fought against the modern (DKC version of) Donkey Kong in the Mario Vs. Donkey Kong series.

Not counting Smash Bros. (as that’s not really a Mario spinoff), most Mario spinoffs don’t feature non-Mario characters (MKDS, MK8, and the Square Enix Mario games being the exception).

Nintendo also considers the spinoffs to be canon to the Mario universe. With Nintendo having stated before that the sports and kart games happen during Mario’s downtime, when he’s not saving the Mushroom Kingdom. Mario has also visited (at least a look alike) of Mario Circuit in SM3DW. That’s not forgetting Mario kart is at least canon in the SNW or the Mushroom Kingdom (and it’s pretty reasonable to assume that the DKC version of DK will likely be both in Mario Kart and the Mine Cart ride).

 

[starri42]

I know I'll get people arguing against me for this: but Magic Kingdom doesn't have an overarching theme

I won't. I completely agree with you.

 

[OrlandoIsTheBest6124]

here was the concept art for IOA
View attachment 396092View attachment 396093
big change from final product

So the only difference here if we are comparing IOA’s final finished concept art to Epic Universe final finished concept art is that IOA first announced their new park as Cartoon World then a few years later they changed the name title to Islands of Adventure and the concept art changed too. But for Universal’s epic universe the official park name will not change it looks like and the concept art from now until 2022-2023 the likelyhood of the lands/worlds will change are very slim we will not see something similar happen to what Cartoon World/IOA had with a ton of changes from DC to all different IP properties like Marvel, Jurassic Park, Lost Continent, Toon Lagoon? I mean do we know for sure if the Epic Universe concept art is the final finished product?

 

[trr1]

So the only difference here if we are comparing IOA’s final finished concept art to Epic Universe final finished concept art is that IOA first announced their new park as Cartoon World then a few years later they changed the name title to Islands of Adventure and the concept art changed too. But for Universal’s epic universe the official park name will not change it looks like and the concept art from now until 2022-2023 the likelyhood of the lands/worlds will change are very slim we will not see something similar happen to what Cartoon World/IOA had with a ton of changes from DC to all different IP properties like Marvel, Jurassic Park, Lost Continent, Toon Lagoon? I mean do we know for sure if the Epic Universe concept art is the final finished product?

that was my point exactly the layout for Epic Universe could be way different than the concept art just like the concept art and model was with I.O.A. It had no big lake in the center in the concept

 

[lazyboy97o]

What became Islands of Adventure was announced very early. It’s a little late to be making radical changes to the park layout.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Also the park concept art seems to fit with all the available permits and documents.

 

[cheezbat]

While Epic Universe will be a good park, I hate the name and think it looks like it will still need more than what is shown to really be a full day park. Hopefully if everything in the concept art is legit and in the day one opening lineup, I truly hope they have an expansion planned relatively soon after opening.

 

[Lintemuthstudios]

While Epic Universe will be a good park, I hate the name and think it looks like it will still need more than what is shown to really be a full day park. Hopefully if everything in the concept art is legit and in the day one opening lineup, I truly hope they have an expansion planned relatively soon after opening.

I like how everyone is assuming that there's no rides when there is seven rides in How to Train Your Dragon, three in Nintendo, two in Potter, one or two in Monsters, and three or four in the hub area.

 

[OrlandoIsTheBest6124]

that was my point exactly the layout for Epic Universe could be way different than the concept art just like the concept art and model was with I.O.A. It had no big lake in the center in the concept
View attachment 396748View attachment 396751
View attachment 396749

Yes I understand people here think that nothing will change and the park concept art is officially everything is locked into place. But shouldn’t we all know we got a long ways to go before the park officially opens. I mean construction has started but we haven’t seen buildings going up or nothing like that. Your saying 100% sure nothing will change even if it’s minor? We don’t know what’s going to happen. But I have to agree with Trr1. Even though IOA announced the park early this is only 2019 and we don’t know what will happen from 2022-2023. Maybe those open spaces will be stuff added on. All we really know is the the new parks official map hasn’t changed. I’ve heard people say you can only take this concept art map with a grain of salt.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes I understand people here think that nothing will change and the park concept art is officially everything is locked into place. But shouldn’t we all know we got a long ways to go before the park officially opens. I mean construction has started but we haven’t seen buildings going up or nothing like that. Your saying 100% sure nothing will change even if it’s minor? We don’t know what’s going to happen. But I have to agree with Trr1. Even though IOA announced the park early this is only 2019 and we don’t know what will happen from 2022-2023. Maybe those open spaces will be stuff added on. All we really know is the the new parks official map hasn’t changed. I’ve heard people say you can only take this concept art map with a grain of salt.

You’re not talking about minor changes. You just need to accept that this is the park and your Armchair ideas aren’t happening.

 

[OrlandoIsTheBest6124]

You’re not talking about minor changes. You just need to accept that this is the park and your Armchair ideas aren’t happening.

What you don’t understand is that universal hasn’t officially announced up front as to what the concept art layout will be what the names of the lands or worlds will be. Your talking like your a universal expert or something. You may want to accept this park. But the finished product should actually when the park is fully built. That’s how it works. Their aren’t armchair ideas. This is a rumor and speculation thread. You think changes to concept art are impossible I guess. Honestly to me the IP’s are weak except Classic Monsters. They need more universal title properties in this park IMO more like when the original park opened in the 90’s. Universal is kind of slowly stepping away from its in house properties feel free to disagree.