Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[Disney Analyst]

Has anyone considered the possibility that creating more indoor attractions simply didn't align with their creative vision? It's easy to ask for more indoor attractions, but they can't just build something that's indoors for the sake of it.

Sure. It may not align with what the creatives for Universal want. Or perhaps the budgets the executives give them.

But it’s certainly not winning them points in their opening summer, and feels like an aggressively anti-guest mindset to have, if true.

And I think all anyone would hope for is more balance. A better balance, to ensure the park runs smoother regardless of the weather.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Uni seems to have put themselves in a bind in that the park is built around portals to fully immersive lands.

This means they're not going to plop down a few flat rides or one-off walk-throughs. That would break the pattern.

The large expansion pads are for the really big one-IP land. And it'll take 2-3 years to build one.

The one grace they have is the ride cut from the Potter portal. They could perhaps put up a second Potter ride there a little bit faster because the theming of the portal is already done.

It might be the end of 2027 at the earliest for a new ride. 2028 for a new portal.

Meanwhile, IoA and USF remain underbuilt...

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Has anyone considered the possibility that creating more indoor attractions simply didn't align with their creative vision? It's easy to ask for more indoor attractions, but they can't just build something that's indoors for the sake of it.

It would suggest some serious problems at Universal Creative if they are disregarding basic operational issues when designing their theme parks in order to more properly fulfil their creative vision. There is always a give and take between the two things, but if they're basically saying the guests can put up with attraction closures and long waits because they find designing outdoor rollercoasters more creatively fulfilling that suggests a cultural problem.

I don't think that's the issue here, though, any more than, say, the lack of shade and seating in Toy Story Land was due to those things not aligning with the creative vision of the Imagineers.

 

[rd805]

As would a large, covered theater like the one USF has for Animal Actors

They already have 2 full stage shows -- IMO the park needs "rides!"
**Anything would help though, yes.

 

[Andrew25]

After a few visits to Epic Universe, I have a somewhat general grasp on what the park needs to prioritize:

These are general ideas of what the park could benefit from.

There are three top priorities for Epic Universe (in my opinion):

• Shade Structures, specifically at SNW and Celestial Park. From my understanding, SNW will need approval from Nintendo to install actual shade structures (not just umbrellas), so this might take a while. But Celestial Park can easily be updated to add shade structures throughout. Way too much open space with very little shade, even when the trees do grow shade will be limited.
  • There are a few areas I've identified (marked 3 on map) that can features covered arcades/structures to provide relief to guests. They already did this at the front of the park, can't see why it will be an issue elsewhere.
• Additional Family Experiences, I think the park could benefit from more reliable ride system thats cater to the entire family. An actual high-capacity Omnimover ride system (not like Yoshi) would benefit this park tremendously. I'd put this in the smaller expansion pad across Atlantic to tie to Celestial Park. If not, prioritize a family-friendly Potter ride to provide relief for Ministry.
• Dark Universe Expansion, what is there is great, but it's the smallest of the 4 portals. We all know about the expansion pad, and the sooner it's used the better. However, there is a smaller pad behind the stores (mentioned above) that can house a smaller interactive experience (whether it's a walktrhough of some sort or additional shops). Ideally, this would be an indoor Knockturn Alley style walkthrough with a shop or two.

I think the park can go a decade without touching the larger expansion pads as long as they "plus" existing portals and areas first.

 

[drew81]

Here’s an idea.

They should have pivoted from their new event space to a Captain Cacao indoor space.

Cacao 4-D show, meet and greet, a kids play area and an additional place to cool off, which the park needs.

 

[DKampy]

Maybe thry could add a smaller Secret Life of Pets portal…perhaps the world is too close to ours…. But I could see a universe where we are the pets also…, they already have template so it could be added relatively fast…,plus the ride would be a hit with families

 

[Purduevian]

The also could "leak" Celestial park into one of the expansion pads and plop down some covered space themed flat rides. Think the area between stardust and Harry potter. You could expand a little bit while still leaving the large plot for another portal.

I also think they could use part of the plot and make a fully indoor "super silly fun land" with lots of flats and a jr coaster.

 

[TalkingHead]

Uni seems to have put themselves in a bind in that the park is built around portals to fully immersive lands.

This means they're not going to plop down a few flat rides or one-off walk-throughs. That would break the pattern.

The large expansion pads are for the really big one-IP land. And it'll take 2-3 years to build one.

The one grace they have is the ride cut from the Potter portal. They could perhaps put up a second Potter ride there a little bit faster because the theming of the portal is already done.

It might be the end of 2027 at the earliest for a new ride. 2028 for a new portal.

Meanwhile, IoA and USF remain underbuilt...

What Diagon Alley hath wrought

 

[BrianLo]

Has anyone considered the possibility that creating more indoor attractions simply didn't align with their creative vision? It's easy to ask for more indoor attractions, but they can't just build something that's indoors for the sake of it.

Probably not. The two known big cuts were another indoor attraction and covered show. Replaced by one coaster. That likely would have achieved the better balance everyone is suggesting.

 

[JT3000]

Probably not. The two known big cuts were another indoor attraction and covered show. Replaced by one coaster. That likely would have achieved the better balance everyone is suggesting.

Two indoor rides were canceled along with the show. I think the canceled rides fall outside the scope of my question though, since they have no bearing on what's actually there, and if anything does get built on those plots in the future they could still be indoors. My point was that the large number of outdoor attractions were always meant to be outdoors, except for Werewolf, which replaced a completely different type of attraction late in the process (and you can tell.) The park was always going to have the same weather issues as IOA, even if the canceled rides had made the cut. For better or worse, they don't seem to care too much about this sort of thing, and while it might be inconvenient at times, I personally wouldn't want them rushing something out just to fill a quota of indoor attractions.

 

[BrianLo]

Two indoor rides were canceled along with the show. I think the canceled rides fall outside the scope of my question though, since they have no bearing on what's actually there, and if anything does get built on those plots in the future they could still be indoors. My point was that the large number of outdoor attractions were always meant to be outdoors, except for Werewolf, which replaced a completely different type of attraction late in the process (and you can tell.) The park was always going to have the same weather issues as IOA, even if the canceled rides had made the cut. For better or worse, they don't seem to care too much about this sort of thing, and while it might be inconvenient at times, I personally wouldn't want them rushing something out just to fill a quota of indoor attractions.

I’m not sure I understand your question. My interpretation of what you asked was - was it is a creative decision to have so few indoor rides. The answer to that given what was cut is no. They had creatively intended for several more in the opening day lineup.

Was it a creative decision to have outdoor rides as well, yes. If that was what you meant to ask.

The opening day balance was not seemingly creatively driven. Nor likely operationally the preference given feedback. They ran out their budget.

 

[Purduevian]

Anyone consider that indoor attractions are just flat out more expensive than outdoor attractions?

I have no idea how budgets are divided when building a new park... but would you rather have.
A)what we have now
B) No CotWW, Hiccups, or DK, but add in a creature from the black lagoon indoor boat ride?

 

[JT3000]

I’m not sure I understand your question. My interpretation of what you asked was - was it is a creative decision to have so few indoor rides. The answer to that given what was cut is no. They had creatively intended for several more in the opening day lineup.

Was it a creative decision to have outdoor rides as well, yes. If that was what you meant to ask.

It was a purely creative decision to cut at least one of those attractions, because the concept was deemed unworthy to include in the finished product. And if the attraction truly wasn't going to be up to par, it's likely for the best, even if you're left with less indoor options for the time being.

 

[BrianLo]

Anyone consider that indoor attractions are just flat out more expensive than outdoor attractions?

I maybe sneak edited my final thoughts as you both posted, but yes totally that was one of the problems that occurred here.

The opening day balance was not seemingly creatively driven. Nor likely operationally the preference given feedback. They ran out their budget.

It was a purely creative decision to cut at least one of those attractions, because the concept was deemed unworthy to include in the finished product. And if the attraction truly wasn't going to be up to par, it's likely for the best, even if you're left with less indoor options for the time being.

Fair enough, but that wasn’t the creative goal to under-design the opening day park for the weather. It’s where it landed. If it actually was the goal, that’s the role of executives to bring the creatives down to reality.

I’m just not sure they wanted the park to be poorly built for Florida summers is a useful line of discussion. It is coming off as an excuse and that’s just going to make people more critical. It’s a flaw and hopefully they correct it.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

How did Universal not plan for Florida summers with as long as uni has been here…. Even Disney knew they had to do things differently vs Cali way back in 1971 with things like a cover for the Tea Cups and having the entire It’s a Small World boat ride indoors

WDW's Mad Tea Party opened without a roof. It was added a couple years later

The canopy over HM's queue was also added a year after opening, as was HoP's extended covered queue.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

WDW's Mad Tea Party opened without a roof. It was added a couple years later

The canopy over HM's queue was also added a year after opening, as was HoP's extended covered queue.

HoP has an extended queue? Is that where the market is currently?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

HoP has an extended queue? Is that where the market is currently?

Yes. It was built to be the queue when the line used to go out the door (really!)

I think the posts still have the hooks on them where you would link the chains to form the line

Here's what the area looked like before it was built. There was a patch of grass where the Market's seating area is

 

[Poseidon Quest]

Yes. It was built to be the queue when the line used to go out the door (really!)

I think the posts still have the hooks on them where you would link the chains to form the line

Here's what the area looked like before it was built

It never occurred to me that queue space was the intended purpose, but that's interesting to learn.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Anyone consider that indoor attractions are just flat out more expensive than outdoor attractions?

I have no idea how budgets are divided when building a new park... but would you rather have.
A)what we have now
B) No CotWW, Hiccups, or DK, but add in a creature from the black lagoon indoor boat ride?

The two big attractions that were cut made it all the way to permitting. Budgets had long been allocated for them. It’s unusual for something to get that far and still be cut. Broom was also reworked for a good while for Universal Studios Florida before finally dying.

There was also an interim period where Curse of the Werewolf was smaller and the Dark Universe theater was smaller and indoors.