Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[AidenRodriguez731]

I don't think attendance is an issue, there are obviously tons of people there and going. Plus the costs of food are very high (and we know you have to eat / drink when you are at a park) and VERY popular souvenir's.... they should be making more than enough money back to want to continue investing in their next projects.

I think there are definitely some signs that attendance is lighter than what they were expecting

 

[Purduevian]

I mean... yeah... both are true?

It seems to actually have a worse capacity than even something like Animal Kingdom which is not a ride heavy park but built out their rides to have some great capacity overall. Since it's lacking capacity, Universal is limiting the tickets being sold through higher prices and packages that don't incentivize multiple days + Epic. The rides do not have enough stable throughput to handle large crowds yet.

It just gives "Nobody Goes There Anymore, It’s Too Crowded" vibes haha.

EPIC is about as popular as it can handle right now... there is no need to worry about low attendance, opening up APs, or changing ticketing strategy until one of the following happens:

1) Rides get reliable enough that the long wait times are not an issue
2) Attendance starts to drop
3) Universal builds more capacity

EDIT: Right now (11am EST) Fyre drill and SDD both have 60 mins wait... EPIC doesn't need more people atm.

 

[jrhwdw]

Would be nice to know if NBCU was working on a Regular Fireworks Show!......Rollseyes!!!!......

 

[sedati]

Except for Frankenstein's monster, all of the monsters are the same ones from the films, just redesigned. While I doubt anyone would consider Dark Universe canon, it is nonetheless a continuation of the Universal Monsters franchise.

The same but redesigned. I see. Just like Frontierland is going to be the same but redesigned.

 

[flynnibus]

I think there are definitely some signs that attendance is lighter than what they were expecting

You mean like bloggers looking at 6month stats and trying to compare them to 12month totals of other parks?

At this point 'what they are expecting' is irrelevant - They can't handle more with what they got. The discussion needs to be really about 'how do we clear the log jam so we can drive more attendance'.

They know they are maximizing their dollars for the people they are getting... their issue isn't demand.

Talk about 'attendance is lighter than expected' is a topic about low demand. The park doesn't have low demand - it's already choking itself and UNI is intentionally throttling access. If there was paranoia about 'low demand', they'd stop throttling access... but they aren't.

Maybe people should respect the company has a better idea of what is going on vs bloggers trying to connect dots with imaginary numbers...

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

You mean like bloggers looking at 6month stats and trying to compare them to 12month totals of other parks?

At this point 'what they are expecting' is irrelevant - They can't handle more with what they got. The discussion needs to be really about 'how do we clear the log jam so we can drive more attendance'.

They know they are maximizing their dollars for the people they are getting... their issue isn't demand.

Talk about 'attendance is lighter than expected' is a topic about low demand. The park doesn't have low demand - it's already choking itself and UNI is intentionally throttling access. If there was paranoia about 'low demand', they'd stop throttling access... but they aren't.

Maybe people should respect the company has a better idea of what is going on vs bloggers trying to connect dots with imaginary numbers...

I mean Universal is throttling but its not like this park is "selling out". They can't stop throttling access as like many have said before, overcrowding leads to less guest spending overall and they know the park can't handle anything more. As of right now, the parks is handling MUCH less than DHS or DAK which are both parks in need of more attractions and let's just be honest. Even with less people, the park is doing it poorly. The parks NEEDS capacity eaters and I have no idea how the Universal Creative team could prepare something this ambitious without the most basic planning like capacity, weather, shading, etc.

They have been in Florida for 35 years now. They know the market. They have excellent competition from nearby parks to see what works and what doesn't. They had 25 years to fix the problems with IOA and make this park their REAL headliner.
They spent 7 BILLION dollars without taking these things into real consideration? Even just covering up certain rides would have worked wonders. They knew what they were doing. They spent their budget on grand very social-media friendly locales. The park is very pretty but lacks what is needed to actually make it a truly enjoyable experience.

(I was just there about a week ago)

 

[flynnibus]

I mean Universal is throttling but its not like this park is "selling out". They can't stop throttling access as like many have said before, overcrowding leads to less guest spending overall and they know the park can't handle anything more. As of right now, the parks is handling MUCH less than DHS or DAK which are both parks in need of more attractions and let's just be honest. Even with less people, the park is doing it poorly. The parks NEEDS capacity eaters and I have no idea how the Universal Creative team could prepare something this ambitious without the most basic planning like capacity, weather, shading, etc.

Like I said... if they 'need capacity eaters' so badly, low demand isn't the concern.
Comparing annual attendance totals to other parks isn't the concern.

The concern is what can they do to expand their own ability to grow their guest counts so they can actually convert all the demand into satisified guests.

The bloggers are churning meaningless comparisons and FUD. Because for the most part, they are simply copy cats and consumers with no actual business acumen.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Don't look down? That works for me. There's so much to see during this ride, why look at the floor? As for the curtains, the big one after the first Dracula scene is odd for sure and makes me wonder if something else was meant to be there, but the only others I can think of are the hanging curtains at the end of the ride, to separate show elements. These would likely be less visible if they turned down the brightness in those scenes, but this could negatively affect the elements that are generating all that light. There isn't really much else you can do, besides trying to theme them somehow.

Well I wasn't looking where it wasn't directing me. There are two points in the ride where the vehicle actually points you toward the floor. The part after the first Dracula scene is just awful - not only are the curtains and cement floor fully lit up, but the vehicle lurches forward and points you down toward the floor.

The second time you are pointed at the floor is where the Creature is so its at least mostly themed.

There's a final part where the brides start getting taken out where you are pointed up toward a dividing curtain on the ceiling. You wouldn't see it were it not for an adjacent lighting effect being way too bright.

Some re-programming of the vehicle angles, lighting levels and timing, and replacing the curtains after the first Dracula scene with a properly themed wall would go a long way.

 

[MrPromey]

I think ripsaw could be easily rethemed to whatever they want. It's done so weakly now, almost anything would be acceptable. Bilgerat is done better, but again I think could be redone w/o touching the ride itself which would keep things affordable. Both could be reskinned quite easily I think. Both are good attractions IMO and worthy of keeping unmolested. The problem is most of toon lagoon is simply merch+dining+street stuff. Could you imagine a pokemon takeover?

I guess what I was thinking was a move away from the cartoon-like setup where they'd have to find something else to stick in the limited scenes of ripsaw and then totally redesign the exterior for that final drop and similarly, most river rapids style rides have sprawl with a more natural looking environment but if they were able to move to another cartoony something or other, I think you're right that it wouldn't be that difficult.

I always assumed the theater was supposed to be the third attraction tying that land together but I don't remember ever seeing anything toon-related in there. Just other things here and there the way they use the old Western Stunt Show/Fear Factor stage, today.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I always assumed the theater was supposed to be the third attraction tying that land together but I don't remember ever seeing anything toon-related in there.

Pandemonium Cartoon Circus. It only lasted a few months.

 

[MrPromey]

Why does everyone keep using the word "Classic"? They didn't go that route. These are descendants created by Universal Creative. (Though I will say, Invisible Man and Bride of Frankenstein seem close to their "Classic" counterparts)

They are but they're not drastic rethinks on the characters at play or their origin stories. Most of what we think of today regarding the look and behavior and general backstory of characters like the wolfman, dracula, fraknestein's monster, etc. was started with the old Universal movies, despite Universal cribbing the concepts of them from pre-existing literature.

Universal is the reason we all conjure certain visions in our mind when we hear the names of these characters and see certain references to these "classic" characters everywhere during Halloween the same way Coke is the reason we think of Santa Clause as we do.

Every piece of Halloween candy you get that has dracula on it or frank or wolf man or a mummy is thanks to Universal's original interpretations of them... as have they heavily influenced almost every other popular telling of these characters since that time - that's why I call them "classic".

Except for Frankenstein's monster, all of the monsters are the same ones from the films, just redesigned. While I doubt anyone would consider Dark Universe canon, it is nonetheless a continuation of the Universal Monsters franchise.

To be fair, though, all this was created at a time when nobody thought of movies as franchises so it's more like a happy accident that all of the "original" versions of these characters Universal created were done at a time when this type of horror movie was popular and after Marvel Studios, Universal began thinking about the whole wider shared dark universe thing.

 

[MrPromey]

Pandemonium Cartoon Circus. It only lasted a few months.

Thank you for the link. This is something I never saw in action.

 

[MrPromey]

Some re-programming of the vehicle angles, lighting levels and timing, and replacing the curtains after the first Dracula scene with a properly themed wall would go a long way.

Or on a budget and/or without attraction downtime and/or if it needs to remain a curtain due to access requirements, a curtain with a themed print and the rungs of the top hidden... or a curtain with some projection or something to make it sort of look like a rock wall or a curtain that belongs there - something torn up looking with a fan blowing parts so it looks haunted housish... something - I agree.

I always remember the curtain that was the wrap-around backdrop of the Mary Poppins scene from the great movie ride. the only way you'd know it was a curtain was that they let you see if you kept looking up to the top and I always assumed that was considered acceptable because this was a ride about movies and this was a move "set".

 

[Purduevian]

Anyone think EPIC might build a "Bugs land" or "Dino rama" type land to temporarily boost the capacity of the park ala DAK and DCA?

Basically use one of the expansion pads for a low budget land with lightly themed off the shelf, that is aimed at kids.

I know they have "minons land" at USF... but I wonder if they would consider using an expansion for super silly fun land... load it with flat rides, and maybe a small busbar ride like tinkerbell from TDS.

 

[Philsfan77]

Do we have any data on load capacities for this park? It never felt busy to me when I was there for 2 days (end of June), but it did feel like there were too many attractions with low load capacities overall. It could just be because all rides aren't up to speed yet, but other than Monsters Unchained, I didn't see a people eater in the park in terms of turning guests out in decent numbers.

@lentesta has your team done anything with this yet?

 

[MrPromey]

Anyone think EPIC might build a "Bugs land" or "Dino rama" type land to temporarily boost the capacity of the park ala DAK and DCA?

Basically use one of the expansion pads for a low budget land with lightly themed off the shelf, that is aimed at kids.

I know they have "minons land" at USF... but I wonder if they would consider using an expansion for super silly fun land... load it with flat rides, and maybe a small busbar ride like tinkerbell from TDS.

I really hope not. I know Universal isn't Disney but I still wouldn't have a high degree of confidence that a crappy concept as a cheap and fast temporary fix would not turn into a semi-permanent long-term blight on this park.

That's kind of what they did with the Wolfman coaster and it sticks out like a sore thumb in that land, already. I'm hopeful they tear that out to put something better in sooner than later and maybe reassemble the ride with a new paint job in IOA somewhere like Super Hero Island where it can exist the way the X-men does in a land and a park where their attention to detail was never as good as Epic to begin with and where it's capacity limitations wouldn't be as much of an issue... or just sell it to Busch Gardens or some other regional park.

 

[Purduevian]

I really hope not. I know Universal isn't Disney but I still wouldn't have a high degree of confidence that a crappy concept as a cheap and fast temporary fix would not turn into a semi-permanent long-term blight on this park.

That's kind of what they did with the Wolfman coaster and it sticks out like a sore thumb in that land, already. I'm hopeful they tear that out to put something better in some day and maybe reassembe the ride with a new paint job in IOA somewhere like Super Hero Island where it can exist the way the X-men does in a land and a park where their attention to detail was never as good as Epic to begin with and where it's capacity wouldn't as much of an issue... or just sell it to Busch Gardens or some other regional park.

In an ideal world, I would love for them to make a fully fleshed out land or expand the current lands with highly detailed rides... but I'm just assuming they don't want to drop $300+ million to "fix" the new $7 billion theme park.

 

[MrPromey]

In an ideal world, I would love for them to make a fully fleshed out land or expand the current lands with highly detailed rides... but I'm just assuming they don't want to drop $300+ million to "fix" the new $7 billion theme park.

I get you. I just think if they devoted an entire "portal" to that, they'd have a hard time changing it later on because they'd have to re-crash capacity with construction downtime to tear out an entire land's worth of attractions to rebuild so it feels like that approach would become a difficult thing to undo down the road.

I think Isle of Burk is the right balance of their low bar in that regard today and I'd be worried if they went any lower than that for any sort of significant expansion.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Or on a budget and/or without attraction downtime and/or if it needs to remain a curtain due to access requirements, a curtain with a themed print and the rungs of the top hidden... or a curtain with some projection or something to make it sort of look like a rock wall or a curtain that belongs there - something torn up looking with a fan blowing parts so it looks haunted housish... something - I agree.

I always remember the curtain that was the wrap-around backdrop of the Mary Poppins scene from the great movie ride. the only way you'd know it was a curtain was that they let you see if you kept looking up to the top and I always assumed that was considered acceptable because this was a ride about movies and this was a move "set".

Agreed. If a fully themed set isn't feasible for the current budget or without shutting down the ride, a temporary improvement is sorely needed. Those two moments are a really huge blight on an otherwise great attraction.

 

[Philsfan77]

I really hope not. I know Universal isn't Disney but I still wouldn't have a high degree of confidence that a crappy concept as a cheap and fast temporary fix would not turn into a semi-permanent long-term blight on this park.

That's kind of what they did with the Wolfman coaster and it sticks out like a sore thumb in that land, already. I'm hopeful they tear that out to put something better in sooner than later and maybe reassemble the ride with a new paint job in IOA somewhere like Super Hero Island where it can exist the way the X-men does in a land and a park where their attention to detail was never as good as Epic to begin with and where it's capacity limitations wouldn't as much of an issue... or just sell it to Busch Gardens or some other regional park.

I want them to enclose it, make it a true in the dark coaster...maybe a strobe light effect and some real animatronics (not the abomination that is what they have at the end) jumping out/down from the ceiling similar to some of the animatronics they have on Monsters Unchained. I like your idea too, but if it's staying...they need to fix it and something indoors would be beneficial for the park as a whole.