Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
You been saving all winter to build that strawman?
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For what it's worth, I've seen people walking around Epic with shirts that say things like "RIP Disney!!!!". There are a lot of terminally online theme park enthusiasts who also don't do deep dive discussions like this that actually believe Disney is cooked because that's what their social media algorithm bubble is telling them.
 
W

wdwfan4ver

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
IMO the Orlando market is tapped. There is a reason we have yet to get back to 2019 attendance levels. It's many factors that are the cause of it like price and some people have chosen other places and things to do. Example cruises.
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Animal Kingdom though is a different beast on why. Disney never closed Animal Kingdom as late as they did before Covid. This is the same Disney that never reopened certain stores at Disney Hollywood Studios after Covid so they can create a dead zone at DHS for getting rid the area for the new Monster Inc. land.
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
eddie104 said:
You will start WW3 with a post like this.
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I'm just the messenger.

I mean think about it. Peter Pan's flight by all modern standards is a crappy ride.

People question the longevity of ET and that is basically a more modern more advanced ripoff of that ride concept and yet nobody seems to doubt that PPF, a low capacity ride with decades old effects - especially at WDW where we never got the same updates DL did - will be around until the end of time.

Why is that?

Is it because it's actually a great ride?

If an adult were to ride that for the very first time today, would they think it's an amazing ride worthy of the waits it gets or would it seem like a crappy outdated ride that they don't get the hype over?

That attraction's longevity is rooted firmly in nostalgia.

If Universal had opened that today instead of Disney 50+ years ago, everyone would rightly call it crap.

I'm a part of the nostalgia crowd so I'm in no way trying to knock anyone who likes PPF. I don't want to see it close, either.

... but my son who, due to certain Disney business choices that alienated me, didn't get the same deeply rooted connection to the brand and the parks over his early childhood like I did will never feel the same way about any of this that I do.

When he grows up and has to spend his own money to go to a park with his kids, he's not going to see a 70-80 year old ride as favorably compared to whatever the current version of Minions is or Cosmic Rewhind when it comes to where he takes his kids.

Will attractions like this survive that?

Will our pirates remain a classic or will it end up being replaced by something closer to what they have in Shanghai?

Even today, while many of us don't want to see that happen, there are already plenty who do.

Disney can't cater to both and one group is literally a dying breed while the new group who has no attachment to the "old" stuff that wasn't a part of their own childhood as much (or at all) are going to become the majority. They're going to say "why am I spending $600 a ticket to take my kids to do these old crappy rides?"

I'm pretty sure the Bobs broke that chain and I don't think there's going to be any going back, now.

There's Disney stuff that many would have called sacred for much of the last 75 years out there that many if not most of younger generations will not see that way going forward. They won't be able to milk that history the way they used to and I don't think they have anyone to blame but themselves for that.
 
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MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
From 2010-2019, Disney actually grew their lead over Universal by 10M. I do think the mighty can fall, but we underestimate the sheer scale of WDW. This nostalgia dividend can’t actually come due if more people were going to WDW and Disneyland resort for that matter. The capacity of WDW is still twice that of Universal in just raw theme parks post Epic.

Universal really doesn’t want WDW to fall, either.
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I wonder what percentage of those were families with young children vs. the the modern "Disney adult" though.*

Based upon more alcohol-centric offerings in the parks and resorts and timeshares being intentionally built with much less themed flair than the older ones, I'd be inclined to think they see their current growth market as more the later.

That may very well be a viable market for them to cater to going forward to continue earnings and growth but it also feels like a segment of people they're going to have to work harder to retain than they've historically had to with the cross-generational family crowd.

I just don't see how a lot of people visiting WDW for the first time as an adult today would see a lot of the "classics" as worth keeping.

That's why I think they'll eventually end up like Universal having to re-invent and update their parks more frequently on an ongoing basis to avoid being called stale and dated the way Universal has accepted they have to do as a part of their own business model.

I'm sure they'll survive just fine. I just think the easy money they've come to rely on the Florida property as offering will be a thing of the past.

*For me, while I'd been noticing the slide for years, the tipping point in our frequent business was in 2019-2020, just before COVID. An hour wait on a non-holiday historically off-season weekend for People Mover was when I realized that as a parent, visiting the parks had become more stress than fun for me and that the truth was, it had been that way for some time.
 
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lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
MrPromey said:
That's why I think they'll eventually end up like Universal having to re-invent and update their parks more frequently on an ongoing basis to avoid being called stale and dated the way Universal has accepted they have to do as a part of their own business model.
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They already have had to, and its the park that stole the Universal Studios Florida concept.
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
Another trick is that the Ygor animatronic has alternating lines of dialogue. You can see him send off the vehicle ahead of you, so this way he does not repeat the same animation for your vehicle.


I fear they might have gotten over-zealous from the positive reviews from weeks of short lines. This park will not receive glowing reviews when it has more guests than it is currently equipped to handle.

And before someone says "well technically the park's official capacity is ____" or whatever, I mean how much the park can handle without it being a miserable experience.


It is a shame that they didn't give it 10 PM closing like IOA. It does not get dark in Orlando in summer until basically 9 PM. People will get to see how beautiful Epic is at night... as they walk out to their car. I don't care if it opens later than the other parks. Open it 11:00 if it means having it open for longer hours at night!
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More money from the dinner crowd, too.

What are they sacrificing in the mornings? Starbucks food sales?
 
Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
For what it's worth, I've seen people walking around Epic with shirts that say things like "RIP Disney!!!!". There are a lot of terminally online theme park enthusiasts who also don't do deep dive discussions like this that actually believe Disney is cooked because that's what their social media algorithm bubble is telling them.
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Haven’t seen it myself but it doesn’t surprise me.
 

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