Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

[LittleBuford]

All of the Imagineers in that video look to be about 12. Where is the experienced veteran Imagineer to ensure that this project lives up to the Disney standard set decades ago?

Thank you for saying that. 20 seconds into that video all I could look at was how incredibly young these kids are. The average age here appears to be about 23, with the one exception being that Ryan office guy who looks to be in his 30's.

That video didn't instill a lot of confidence, it just made it look like this project was led by college interns working for pizzas and beer.

For me, the issue isn’t age so much as experience in multiple disciplines. I realize these typically go together. The best of the classic Imagineers were also animators, engineers, movie set designers, costumers, and fine artists. They didn’t simply major in a related field and do a WDI internship.

Rather than assume things, you could have actually looked them up. Ryan Wineinger, for example, has years of experience behind him as a theatrical set designer and some impressive fellowships and awards under his belt (http://www.ryanwineinger.com/documents/resume.pdf). I couldn't find CVs for the other two, but they wouldn't be working for Disney if they hadn't likewise distinguished themselves. Young or not (and they look like they're in their 30s to me), they are surely more qualified than all the armchair imagineers here.

 

[matt9112]

Well I actually don't like riding in the back of any coaster honestly, I prefer the mid-sections of the train

this made me laugh....in so many ways.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Rather than assume things, you could have actually looked them up. Ryan Wineinger, for example, has years of experience behind him as a theatrical set designer and some impressive fellowships and awards under his belt (http://www.ryanwineinger.com/documents/resume.pdf). I couldn't find CVs for the other two, but they wouldn't be working for Disney if they hadn't likewise distinguished themselves. Young or not (and they look like they're in the 30s to me), they are surely more qualified than all the armchair imagineers here.

LOL. I didn’t say they were unqualified. I suggested they did not have adequate guidance from WDI veterans on this project. If you had those Imagineers with Joe Rohde at the helm, they would have learned a ton and this project wouldn’t have so many glaring issues. It also would’ve cost $500m but that’s neither here nor there.

Even Joe Rohde was once a new Imagineer. The company had a depth of existing talent at the time to have him work with the pros who could combine his unique vision with their decades of experience building rides in the parks. For example, “are you sure you don’t want a themed awning over the queue?” or “This looks awesome but I’m not sure the scale is consistent.” You can be an excellent new Imagineer but that still doesn’t adequately provide the knowledge that comes from 40 years of building both the iconic Disney rides and a few flops. Unless you were around to build Test Track and Radiator Springs Racers, you won’t immediately know the difference between the two and where the successes and shortcomings of each come from.

What we are seeing is a WDI that has lost a good deal of its talent, so the remaining A team gets the Pandoras and the Galaxy’s Edges, which are spectacular as usual, while the B team gets the Toy Story Lands and the Pixar Piers.

 

[LittleBuford]

LOL. I didn’t say they were unqualified. I suggested they did not have adequate guidance from WDI veterans on this project. If you had those Imagineers with Joe Rohde at the helm, they would have learned a ton and this project wouldn’t have so many glaring issues. It also would’ve cost $500m but that’s neither here nor there.

Even Joe Rohde was once a new Imagineer. The company had a depth of existing talent at the time to have him work with the pros who could combine his unique vision with their decades of experience building rides in the parks. For example, “are you sure you don’t want a themed awning over the queue?” or “This looks awesome but I’m not sure the scale is consistent.” You can be an excellent new Imagineer but that still doesn’t adequately provide the knowledge that comes from 40 years of building both the iconic Disney rides and a few flops. Unless you were around to build Test Track and Radiator Springs Racers, you won’t immediately know the difference between the two and where the successes and shortcomings of each come from.

What we are seeing is a WDI that has lost a good deal of its talent, so the remaining A team gets the Pandoras and the Galaxy’s Edges, which are spectacular as usual, while the B team gets the Toy Story Lands and the Pixar Piers.

If the original Fantasyland (in either DL or WDW) were to be designed and built today, people here would excoriate the imagineers for the shoddy and lackluster job they'd done. To me, TSL's theming looks fun, impressive, and immersive. It doesn't match Pandora or Galaxy's Edge in elaborateness or ambition, but it was never supposed to.

I'm confident in saying that the imagineers, whether A-team or B-team, know what they're doing much, much better than any of us here.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I understand that, but, I think people are underestimating the intelligence of the people at the time. They were probably in awe of the mechanics, as I was in the early 80's, but, it would never have been anything with any reason for solemn observation of plastic and rubber animatronics. It's not whether it was a new experience. It was then and remains a fake experience with many gags interspersed and is interesting, entertaining and many other adjectives, however, it wasn't taken seriously as a real experience, which is what I think you guys are trying to say. The people of the 50's had just completed WWII and Korea. They weren't that gullible, but, they were entertainable.

I didn’t say real. I said “not campy.” It wasn’t viewed as silly. Pirates of the Caribbean is clearly fake but not viewed as silly even today. Same for Tower of Terror. Or GMR.

Jungle Cruise wasn’t always a roast of itself. The whole reason why it can make fun of itself is because it was originally viewed by Walt, himself, as a true life fantasy. Back when the land was going to be True Life Adventureland with real animals. On the begrudging realization that live animals were impractical, Walt didn’t suddenly decide to change the ride to its current tone. That change happened organically.

Have you seen old-school ‘50s carnival haunted houses? Jungle Cruise was worlds ahead of that at the time.

 

[BrianLo]

What we are seeing is a WDI that has lost a good deal of its talent, so the remaining A team gets the Pandoras and the Galaxy’s Edges, which are spectacular as usual, while the B team gets the Toy Story Lands and the Pixar Piers.

I think part of that problem is simply a sheer lack of projects for them in recent times. There was no need for anything but a single A-team with the backup for the spill over.

I'm hopeful that this big round (and really globally there is a metric tonne of projects now happening) gives ample experience to the current crop. Talent tends to gravitate to where things are actually happening.

 

[ToTBellHop]

If the original Fantasyland (in either DL or WDW) were to be designed and built today, people here would excoriate the imagineers for the shoddy and lackluster job they'd done. To me, TSL's theming looks fun, impressive, and immersive. It doesn't match Pandora or Galaxy's Edge in elaborateness or ambition, but it was never supposed to.

I'm confident in saying that the imagineers, whether A-team or B-team, know what they're doing much, much better than any of us here.

I think Walt would excoriate his own Imagineers if they built Fantasyland rides today to the same level as they did in the 1950s. They don’t. See Shanghai’s Peter Pan’s Flight. Or the updated Disneyland ones. Only Florida’s dark rides stay in the Dark Ages.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I think part of that problem is simply a sheer lack of projects for them in recent times. There was no need for anything but a single A-team with the backup for the spill over.

I'm hopeful that this big round (and really globally there is a metric tonne of projects now happening) gives ample experience to the current crop. Talent tends to gravitate to where things are actually happening.

Sure. And if so, we should expect a WDI incapable of producing original content. Not that Disney approves original content for its parks nowadays...

 

[smile]

View attachment 291179

Well

realized mid-way...
was going to change 'rear' to 'back', but that was used in what i was quoting, so thought it confusing
...pressed ahead hoping the actual content would help me out

 

[smile]

I didn’t say real. I said “not campy.” It wasn’t viewed as silly. Pirates of the Caribbean is clearly fake but not viewed as silly even today. Same for Tower of Terror. Or GMR.

Jungle Cruise wasn’t always a roast of itself. The whole reason why it can make fun of itself is because it was originally viewed by Walt, himself, as a true life fantasy. Back when the land was going to be True Life Adventureland with real animals. On the begrudging realization that live animals were impractical, Walt didn’t suddenly decide to change the ride to its current tone. That change happened organically.

Have you seen old-school ‘50s carnival haunted houses? Jungle Cruise was worlds ahead of that at the time.

bravo...
tried to articulate that in another thread and was't nearly as successful

 

[space42]

I understand that, but, I think people are underestimating the intelligence of the people at the time. They were probably in awe of the mechanics, as I was in the early 80's, but, it would never have been anything with any reason for solemn observation of plastic and rubber animatronics. It's not whether it was a new experience. It was then and remains a fake experience with many gags interspersed and is interesting, entertaining and many other adjectives, however, it wasn't taken seriously as a real experience, which is what I think you guys are trying to say. The people of the 50's had just completed WWII and Korea. They weren't that gullible, but, they were entertainable.

Wonder no more - here is the original presentation as shown in 1956.

 

[ptaylor]

I'm confident in saying that the imagineers, whether A-team or B-team, know what they're doing much, much better than any of us here.

Then why are there glaring issues that we can all see?

Specifically, lack of indoor queues, or even covered queues. Lack of indoor restaurant space. Lack of indoor meet and greet. Lack of gift shop. Extremely low hourly capacity of the 2 new rides. No indoor space to go when the afternoon rain arrives.

These seem like such obvious features that a land like this needs, yet they are not present. I think most people here would know that those are a requirement, and yet the designers do not.

I remember the great Marty Sklar saying at a presentation "meet the needs of the people". This is frequently missing in recent WDI projects.

 

[danlb_2000]

If the original Fantasyland (in either DL or WDW) were to be designed and built today, people here would excoriate the imagineers for the shoddy and lackluster job they'd done. To me, TSL's theming looks fun, impressive, and immersive. It doesn't match Pandora or Galaxy's Edge in elaborateness or ambition, but it was never supposed to.

I'm confident in saying that the imagineers, whether A-team or B-team, know what they're doing much, much better than any of us here.

Individual Imagineers probably know what is best, but once you throw in all the competing demands that come with working in a huge corporation like Disney, whats best doesn't always become reality.

 

[LittleBuford]

Then why are there glaring issues that we can all see?

Specifically, lack of indoor queues, or even covered queues. Lack of indoor restaurant space. Lack of indoor meet and greet. Lack of gift shop. Extremely low hourly capacity of the 2 new rides. No indoor space to go when the afternoon rain arrives.

These seem like such obvious features that a land like this needs, yet they are not present. I think most people here would know that those are a requirement, and yet the designers do not.

I remember the great Marty Sklar saying at a presentation "meet the needs of the people". This is frequently missing in recent WDI projects.

Not all of us see them. Some of us are willing to wait and experience the finished product before making any snap judgements.

Somewhere upthread, a CM (Disone, I believe) said that more of the queue is sheltered than appears to be the case in aerial pictures.

Why is an indoor restaurant a necessity? And I never thought I'd see the day when people would be moaning about the absence of meet-and-greets and gift shops!

 

[LittleBuford]

Individual Imagineers probably know what is best, but once you throw in all the competing demands that come with working in a huge corporation like Disney, whats best doesn't always become reality.

That may well be, but that's a different issue from the credentials of the imagineers themselves, whose expertise and talents are unfairly being brought into question here.

 

[ptaylor]

Why is an indoor restaurant a necessity? And I never thought I'd see the day when people would be moaning about the absence of meet-and-greets and gift shops!

An indoor restaurant and gift shop provides air-conditioned indoor space and somewhere to go when it rains every day in the summer - something that is very important for a land designed for families with children. And the same goes for a meet and greet space, particularly when the current Pixar Place has one.

Beyond the weather issues, a proper restaurant in each land is part of what makes "a land". I think most people would consider a land to be a place with attractions, restaurants, shops, and a restroom.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Not all of us see them. Some of us are willing to wait and experience the finished product before making any snap judgements.

Somewhere upthread, a CM (Disone, I believe) said that more of the queue is sheltered than appears to be the case in aerial pictures.

Why is an indoor restaurant a necessity? And I never thought I'd see the day when people would be moaning about the absence of meet-and-greets and gift shops!

You are either being purposely obtuse or purposely difficult. Which is it?

 

[LittleBuford]

An indoor restaurant and gift shop provides air-conditioned indoor space and somewhere to go when it rains every day in the summer - something that is very important for a land designed for families with children. And the same goes for a meet and greet space, particularly when the current Pixar Place has one.

Beyond the weather issues, a proper restaurant in each land is part of what makes "a land". I think most people would consider a land to be a place with attractions, restaurants, shops, and a restroom.

I take your point about indoor spaces for families to go. But the inclusion or otherwise of shops and restaurants is probably a decision out of the imagineers' hands.

 

[LittleBuford]

You are either being purposely obtuse or purposely difficult. Which is it?

Neither! I'm expressing my own viewpoint. There's no need for rudeness.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Then why are there glaring issues that we can all see?

Specifically, lack of indoor queues, or even covered queues. Lack of indoor restaurant space. Lack of indoor meet and greet. Lack of gift shop. Extremely low hourly capacity of the 2 new rides. No indoor space to go when the afternoon rain arrives.

These seem like such obvious features that a land like this needs, yet they are not present. I think most people here would know that those are a requirement, and yet the designers do not.

I remember the great Marty Sklar saying at a presentation "meet the needs of the people". This is frequently missing in recent WDI projects.

Toy Story Land was designed with the idea of something small and not very impressive. It is meant to be a moderate addition to HS, just to temporairly fix the park before SW:GE (a HUGE project) opens next year. That's why there isn't so much attention to problems like these.

Speaking of the capacity of the new rides, the overall excitement about them will probably have faded away by the time of summer or fall 2019, even earlier possibly. They aren't something out of the ordinary (Slinky Dog Dash is a standard family rollercoaster with not a lot of theming attached to it and I don't think that the Alien Swarling Saucers needs any explanantion) and they will most likely be overlooked by the time Galaxy's Edge opens. So this is a temporary problem.