Totally new theme park for WDW!

[I3olTz]

Why not put both ideas into one park. I mean MK has almost 8 lands (Some are small, so what) so you could have the largest land being Villians, that would be many peoples favorites because the Villians are "bad" but they are also interesting to many people. Another land could be the "Myths/ Legends" area with more shows than rides.

The park doesnt have to be completely dark, but Disney needs more than its usual "Everything has a happy ending" stuff all the other parks have. So if i break it down this is what i would think would be the best compromise.

New Park (7 Lands) (Modeled after MK so MK Lands in () is where new land would be)
1. Villian Land (Largest) (Tomorrowland)
-Roller Coaster Based on Villains
-Show like Philarmagic, but with villians or actor show where Villains vs. Good Guys (Jafar vs. Alladdin and Mulan vs. Evil Army Leader Guy)
-Restaurant where Villains serve food?

2. Myth/Legend Land (Second Largest) (Fantasyland)
-More Educational with shows
-More Motion rides than Speed Rides
-"Hercules " attraction

3. Phobia Land (Sixth Largest) (Frontierland)
-Interactivwe Show where people confront fears
-Water Ride with snakes/spiders/height etc.

4. Evil of the World Land (Fourth Largest) (Between Tomorrowland and Monsters Inc. Road)
-Ride with Asian Myths
-3-D Show with Mummies
-SeaMonster Ride

5. Kid's Zone (Smallest) (Liberty Square)
-Interactive water fountains
-Tame rides featuring less "Evil" villians (Cruella DeVille, Scar, Evil Stepsisiters from "Cinderella")

6. Monsters Inc. Road (Main Street, USA)
-Shops
-Main Parade Route

7. Need Help With This One Land

I think this idea is kool, very nice and planed out...sounds like disney material to me

 

[mousermerf]

Imagineering does shoot down ideas.

Imagineering is not about fostering any idea to make it work, the folks with the job even say that the bad ideas die for a reason.

Being able to take criticism, however harsh (and trust me, in the real world it's downright nastey), is key to surviving in design though.

As for saying you'd get someone fired for being harsh about a design, i'd say that's a million times more mean spiritted than any harsh criticism, and not the Disney way.

 

[terp79]

"what if...."

I'm sorry to hear that peoples ideas are being shot down. Granted not everyone on this board is Tony Baxter or any of the other great talents at WDI. It's true that harsh comments where made and everyone who wants to be an imagineer needs to follow the writings on the wall or atleast the writings in so many of the published WDI books. At WDI they never say no....they say "what if....?" Harsh comments and shooting peoples ideas down stops the creative flow and creates nothing but attitude and fractured unity. Remember that at WDI it's about the passion of creativity, the "what ifs", the continuing Walts dreams and most importantly the love.

With that said I love the idea of a 5th gate. I do think that a thrill park is a nice idea. It's a very narrow market but let's say for fun it's the smallest of the parks and is geared at taking the world record for rollercoasters away from Cedar Point. As we all know and love how Disney themes their roller coasters. . . so i think it would be amazing to see what Imagineers could do with a park of nothing but 20+ type roller coaster/thrill rides.
Who would be the audience?
1. Teens
2. Adults (21+)
3. ACE Members
4. Roller Coaster Fans
5. Thrillseekers

I don't know if this would be enough to create much of a profit. Remember that thrill rides and roller coaster tech. is $$$$$ and that's for the basic ride, no plussing!!! It would be a huge risk and investment to actually create.

I remember in 2003, speaking with a cast member that was visiting some of his family at the Poly started talking to me about "Disney Steel." A roller coaster based park. I thought how cool!!!! Alas alack they always tell you not to trust a cast members rumors. I took it with a grain of salt.

However that one conversation was enough to create a spark and I do like the idea of a Villain themed thrill park. After playing Kingdom hearts II, i fell in love with the castle design from Hollow Bastian. I think it would serve as a killer wienie, with its pipes and gears, smoke and industrial meet fantasy vibe i think it could serve as a great starting point.

For those unfamiliar with KHII (shame on you) but here's some pics:
http://www.kh-2.net/news/data/upimages/HB01.jpg
http://www.happy-bivouac.com/khearts/images/worlds/bastion.jpg
http://www.kh2.co.uk/image.php?view=kh2/scans/115.jpg

Not to say the park has to do with Kingdom Hearts at all but i think the style they used for the Castle would lend itself well to a park of nothing but steel rollercoasters and other thrill rides.

K, i'm off my soapbox...

 

[stitchcastle]

In my opinion, if you all want a thrill park, you've got to really meticulously theme it and flesh out really dramatic storylines for the park. The only way to make a really thrilling park without sacrificing the Disney idealism would be, instead of focusing on villains, one focused on Adventures. You can still have a villain-centric area but you can't let them rule at the end of the day.


here's my shot at it:
you can have a turn of the century San Fransisco Bay as the manstreet/introduction/entrance area to the park where guests can choose from either going west to uncharted waters of the pacific [Adventureland type area] , or east and discover the perils that lie within your own world [The supernatural world of legendary ghouls and creatures]. Or go North to the forbidden mountains [the "dark" fantasyland].

 

[S.E.A.]

a Disney park should appeal to entire families, I'm afraid a thrill/villain park will just drive them away and would hardly posess any sort of the Disney magic that has made the existing parks so memorable. IF there ever was one, be it a "Coaster Kingdom" or "Villain Kingdom", it would end up looking tacky and uninspired...yet another DCA.

the bottom line is, when you're talking along the lines of a disney theme park, "Thrill" or "villains" is not broad or appealing enough a theme, heck, thrill isn't even a theme. Families won't spend hundreds of dollars just to be scared.

in the context of WDW, there doesn't have to be an all-thrill park because each park is injected a helpful does of thrill attractions that help each of them be rounded out in a way that it would cater to the needs of everyone.

so far, the only other workable theme that could be used for WDW as an entirely new theme park is something Nautical, somewhere along the lines of Disney's abandoned Long Beach theme park, the original incarnation of DisneySea (not the Disneyland on water version that is in Tokyo, but the ambitious DAK-EPCOT hybrid)

 

[The Adventurer]

I am currently working on a park similar to this, however it wouldn't be Walt Disney World's fifth park to me. It is called Disney's Discoveryland and it focuses on Disney's grandest adventures. The only place a villain actually "rules" per say is a planned "Night on Bald Mountain" roller coaster that has the scare factor of Universal's The Mummy and the thrill factor of Rock 'n' Roller Coaster and Expedition: Everest.:king:

 

[terp79]

the bottom line is, when you're talking along the lines of a disney theme park, "Thrill" or "villains" is not broad or appealing enough a theme, heck, thrill isn't even a theme. Families won't spend hundreds of dollars just to be scared.

"Thrill" isn't even a theme? Then tell me why Cedar Point and other various Amusement Parks have survived only on the theme of thrill? Thrill isn't for everyone I agree but the point of this thread, correct me if I'm wrong, is that of an idea, a spark of the imagination. What's so bad with dreaming a bit. After all this is the Imagineering room and if I remember correctly BLUE SKIES are the limit.

 

[mousermerf]

Cedar Point and other various Amusement Parks aren't theme parks.

They don't have a theme. Thrill, by definition, is not a theme.

 

[S.E.A.]

"Thrill" isn't even a theme? Then tell me why Cedar Point and other various Amusement Parks have survived only on the theme of thrill? Thrill isn't for everyone I agree but the point of this thread, correct me if I'm wrong, is that of an idea, a spark of the imagination. What's so bad with dreaming a bit. After all this is the Imagineering room and if I remember correctly BLUE SKIES are the limit.

like what Mousemerf already pointed out, Cedar Point and various other amusement parks are not THEME parks. They are what they are, AMUSEMENT parks. Thrill is not a theme.

 

[terp79]

thrill vs. theme

You say that Amusement parks aren't theme parks. I totally get what you're saying. Most Amusement parks don't have enough character franchise or money to actually theme and "plus" their amusements.

By no means am I calling Cedar Point a theme park. If you ask me what cedar point is i will say, an amusement park. but if you asked me if cedar point has a theme i would say yes, it has the theme of thrills, there the largest coaster park in the world!!! The have raised the bar on so many thrill rides. Cedar Points theme is roller coasters.

But what is the point of a roller coaster?
To scare you, to make you laugh, to give you a thrill, to push the limits of technoloy, to break world records. . .
And lets say for all practical uses you have about 17 of these world record beasts? Do you think that you could then say that park is all about big thrills? Then wouldn't thrill be the theme of said park?

After all theme means: An implicit or recurrent idea; a motif or a subject of artistic representation.

Things don't need just characters, and castles, lands, and worlds, to be themed. Themes can be colors, feelings, abstracted ideas, etc.
Take for instance feelings. Feelings can be themed, look at Valentines day. The day is actually based on St. Valentine but we represent the day with hearts and cupids (the "artistic" representation of a feeling). We don't hand our loved ones cards with pictures of the Saint on it now do we? Wouldn't you say the theme of Valentines day is the feeling of love?

Over all i get what both of you are saying. i guess being a fine arts major i can see themes in everything. I totally get the idea that a disney thrill park that is themed wouldn't go over well with you. Did I ever say this idea was the best one in the entire world? No, but I'm going along with it, like i said before it's fun to atleast explore an idea and go on a journey even if it's just in your head. I mean isn't that what Walt wanted for all of us? To trust him and go along for the journey?

 

[unkadug]

Holidays don't fall into the same category as Theme/Amusement Parks.

Holidays represent/commemorate a person or event.

Theme Parks have a tangible theme not a feeling or emotion.

 

[S.E.A.]

You say that Amusement parks aren't theme parks. I totally get what you're saying. Most Amusement parks don't have enough character franchise or money to actually theme and "plus" their amusements.

By no means am I calling Cedar Point a theme park. If you ask me what cedar point is i will say, an amusement park. but if you asked me if cedar point has a theme i would say yes, it has the theme of thrills, there the largest coaster park in the world!!! The have raised the bar on so many thrill rides. Cedar Points theme is roller coasters.

But what is the point of a roller coaster?
To scare you, to make you laugh, to give you a thrill, to push the limits of technoloy, to break world records. . .
And lets say for all practical uses you have about 17 of these world record beasts? Do you think that you could then say that park is all about big thrills? Then wouldn't thrill be the theme of said park?

After all theme means: An implicit or recurrent idea; a motif or a subject of artistic representation.

Things don't need just characters, and castles, lands, and worlds, to be themed. Themes can be colors, feelings, abstracted ideas, etc.
Take for instance feelings. Feelings can be themed, look at Valentines day. The day is actually based on St. Valentine but we represent the day with hearts and cupids (the "artistic" representation of a feeling). We don't hand our loved ones cards with pictures of the Saint on it now do we? Wouldn't you say the theme of Valentines day is the feeling of love?

Over all i get what both of you are saying. i guess being a fine arts major i can see themes in everything. I totally get the idea that a disney thrill park that is themed wouldn't go over well with you. Did I ever say this idea was the best one in the entire world? No, but I'm going along with it, like i said before it's fun to atleast explore an idea and go on a journey even if it's just in your head. I mean isn't that what Walt wanted for all of us? To trust him and go along for the journey?

in lay man terms...bare bones roller coasters do not have stories the way attractions at theme parks do. They are merely there to thrill, not to tell stories.

a themed thrill park is plausible (look at IoA), a theme park themed on thrill is not.

 

[terp79]

I completely agree....i mean i wouldn't base every attraction to the theme of just the feeling/emotion of "thrill." I do however think that WDI could take a park of rollercoasters and with an unlimited budget, could plus them giving them a storyline. They've done it with all the other rollercoaster/thrill rides at WDW & DL.

I just think that a Villain themed park could lend itself well. The target audience is there. While younger kids like the princesses and the characters, what does the average 12 year old enjoy from Disney? POTC, HM, and the other thrill rides that are so cleverly plussed.

Maybe a villain theme is wrong, you seem to think so. Take the Villain out and I'm sure someone at WDI could come up with a way to cleverly tell stories using the medium of rollercoasters, market it to the tweens and young adults, and with unlimited funding make it happen. I mean this is all for fun, right? Do we actually think Disney is going to build a 5th gate? I don't see it happening anytime soon.

I just know a lot more planning goes into what WDI does and how well it can relate acrossed the board (Disney Resorts, Disney Consumer Products, Disney Feature Animation/Pictures, etc.) If it weren't for trends and popularity I doubt my WDI ImagiNations entry would of won first place. But I guess the Imagineers thought that I had a good enough story, target audience, and skill???? If it weren't for trends and the consumer and Imagineers had all the money they needed, we'd most likely see more amazing things coming out of WDI, but for now it's all movie, princess, and character, related.

WDI isn't in the market for risks right now, i think it was you who said this idea would be just as bad as DCA. DCA was a risk and imagineers are still trying to make it work. I look at the brighter side of things....DCA isn't that bad, this idea isn't that bad.

 

[S.E.A.]

the villain theme isn't broad enough for an entire theme park, a land, sure, an entire park? not so much. If you tried hard enough, you can come up with one but it would only come out looking like an edgier looking Magic Kingdom

 

[Testtrack321]

I want to build a 5th gate, and call it "Rumorland".

There they'll build a giant attraction about the rumors around a Harry Potter attraction.

Jim Hill will have his own land, along with "Sarcasm Island".

 

[mousermerf]

You're taking the "art" version of theme and trying to apply it to theme parks. Theme parks are an extension of storytelling and theatricality - hence the literary realm. You have to use the literary definition of theme.

Designers are different than artists for a reason.

 

[stitchcastle]

I completely agree....i mean i wouldn't base every attraction to the theme of just the feeling/emotion of "thrill." I do however think that WDI could take a park of rollercoasters and with an unlimited budget, could plus them giving them a storyline. They've done it with all the other rollercoaster/thrill rides at WDW & DL.

I just think that a Villain themed park could lend itself well. The target audience is there. While younger kids like the princesses and the characters, what does the average 12 year old enjoy from Disney? POTC, HM, and the other thrill rides that are so cleverly plussed.

Maybe a villain theme is wrong, you seem to think so. Take the Villain out and I'm sure someone at WDI could come up with a way to cleverly tell stories using the medium of rollercoasters, market it to the tweens and young adults, and with unlimited funding make it happen. I mean this is all for fun, right? Do we actually think Disney is going to build a 5th gate? I don't see it happening anytime soon.

I just know a lot more planning goes into what WDI does and how well it can relate acrossed the board (Disney Resorts, Disney Consumer Products, Disney Feature Animation/Pictures, etc.) If it weren't for trends and popularity I doubt my WDI ImagiNations entry would of won first place. But I guess the Imagineers thought that I had a good enough story, target audience, and skill???? If it weren't for trends and the consumer and Imagineers had all the money they needed, we'd most likely see more amazing things coming out of WDI, but for now it's all movie, princess, and character, related.

WDI isn't in the market for risks right now, i think it was you who said this idea would be just as bad as DCA. DCA was a risk and imagineers are still trying to make it work. I look at the brighter side of things....DCA isn't that bad, this idea isn't that bad.

I think roller coasters are definately able to lend itself to the creative forces of WDI, it's not that hard. Look at the Incredible Hulk, sure it looks bare but it has a really well told story embeded in it that makes it work, and on a far grander scale, All the roller coaster Disney Mountains. Roller coaster are a great medium for the storytelling requirements of a great Disney attraction.


Disney Villains could definately work as a theme, just not for an entire WDW theme park, it's not unique enough to stand apart from The Magic Kingdom design.

to justify the use of a theme for a Disney theme park, it has to be both timeless and appeal to all audiences. Thrills and darkness only cover one market.

although I don't think trends and popularity would be a good thing to base an entire theme park around, especially if it's supposed to stand the test of time like a true Disney park should.


oh and congratulations on your ImagiNations victory, and cool Myspace page by the way.

 

[BenJacobs]

Still one question... Why?

I think many good themes are being suggested, but at some point someone has to introduce some practical questions.

Why should this be a separate park? Who does this appeal to? What groups need to be included that are not interested in this?

As I said about my original suggestion, there are reasons for a new park like the one I suggested. What would make my park different is that it would be aimed at including more coasters in the park to compete more directing with what Universal is doing. Along with the "thrills" of coaster, other "thrills" could be included. I have explained that people do want more exciting and thrilling rides than when Walt Disney originally designed his park. I also explained that this park might provide a place for Disney villains who right now do not have much place.

The suggestion of myths and and legends has some interesting potential, but why? That sounds like a great "land" somewhere, but not a whole park. Right now I cannot say Disney "needs" a whole new park for myths and legends. Who does it appeal to? This idea is very attractive to males, but not very fun for females. It also does not sound very attractive to children. What is included that would be attractive to little girls? What would you include that would be more Kid-centered?

It is also not clear what kind of rides or attractions would be there. Why would this be fun? What is fun about a land with Greek statues and temples?

You know, many people prefer Disney as most of rides aren't thrills, just enjoyable things for everybody(mostly), I for one don't enjoy massive thrills, which are more present at Universal, so medium roller coasters like Space Mountain and fast paced thrill rides like Test Track and Dinosaur are what I enjoy. A park that only targets younger children and thrill seekers(which is essentially what Islands of Adventure is) isn't targeting all sectors, which is what Disney needs to do, there's no wonder why Disney parks are much more popular than that of Universal.

A new park would of course include thrills, but they wouldn't be cheap looking rides with heaps of inversion, like the Hulk, I think the limit of intensity for Disney is with TOT and RNRC. Also, Hollywood Studios is becoming the park for thrills, and it's doing that well, as it has stuff for everybody and is soon to have more simulator thrills in Star Wars Land and the roller coaster in Toy Story Land. So, truthfully, if Disney were to create a new park, which there isn't really any need for anyway, it wouldn't be a thrill based park.

Epcot is about the real world, the future, and innovation, Magic Kingdom is indeed themed after Disneyland(there's no specific theme fir the whole park), Animal Kingdom is about nature that does, did, and could exist(real life or lifelike nature, not just anything with animals in it), as well as conservation, and Hollywood Studios is about films. A fifth park would have to have an inventive theme that is different to the others, even with a different theme park layout, I don't have any good ideas for a new park's theme, but I see no need for a new theme park anyway.

I'd build a new water park, as big as Volcano Bay(but better themed of course) with some amazing centrepiece. This would add another day or good half of a day to every holiday, you could even include a river rapids ride and a log flume, themed of course, as these would be tremendously popular as nobody cares about getting wet, unlike in a normal theme park, these would mean that it becomes more popular than Volcano Bay.