Tokyo Disneyland Resort Expansion

[Robbiem]

P.S: I'm really confused to why there is no Universal park in Europe yet. Maybe 1 day

There isn’t anymore but universal used to own a park in Spain

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PortAventura_World

 

[Robbiem]

Honestly, Uni could do an entire HP park in the UK.

It would drive tourism like crazy

This is what they should do at the park planned outside London which used to be Paramount branded. A London Uni resort with heavy potter and other British IPs would be an interesting concept

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

This is what they should do at the park planned outside London which used to be Paramount branded. A London Uni resort with heavy potter and other British IPs would be an interesting concept

Not gonna happen. One of the big demographics for UOR as well as WDW are British guests. Opening a Potter park in London would cut into Orlando revenue by a fair chunk. Plus they already have the WB Studio Tour there, which is like a mini-park in and of itself.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Not gonna happen. One of the big demographics for UOR as well as WDW are British guests. Opening a Potter park in London would cut into Orlando revenue by a fair chunk.

That is a good point, but wouldn't a London park still bring in far more guests for Universal than they would potentially lose in Orlando?

 

[Absimilliard]

I know that it isn't owned by Universal. I haven't been to Sentosa but my parents have and they have told me that it is quite good. I just said that Universal could have built a really grand park post-2001 (when USJ opened) while Disney was straggling but they botched that opportunity. Even if they wanted to build one in Singapore they could have tried in a different part of the city or negotiate the deal with the goverment. The Crate Adventure is a quite cute dark ride but I agree that it takes way to much space. I don't think that there is something else they could fit in that space anyway though.

P.S: I'm really confused to why there is no Universal park in Europe yet. Maybe 1 day

Look at a map of Resorts World Sentosa compared to Sentosa Island and it is remarkable what Universal Creative were able to do in the short time they had. Genting and Star Cruises filed their proposal in 2006 and by 2007, construction on the land was starting with an opening in 2010. Its not like Singapore gave the whole island to Universal to build a park! They had limited space and they used Universal to do the theme park, Forrec for the water park and also built a huge aquarium in addition to the casino and hotels.

After Tussaud and Busch Entertainment built Port Aventura, Universal became the controlling shareholder and operator of the park in 1997. Some great and imaginative attractions were built during that time, like the Sea Odyssey simulator and Templo Del Fuego special effect show. They also added hotels and a water park in 2000. In 2004 during the very troubled ownership period of Universal, the company sold off Port Aventura to La Caixa.

 

[Absimilliard]

Interesting, thanks!

For fun, I looked at the capitalization value of Oriental Land Co. right now.... and it is listed at 34.2 billion USD. Just acquiring a controlling stake in the resort for Disney would make the Lucasfilm and Marvel acquisitions look like pocket change.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Look at a map of Resorts World Sentosa compared to Sentosa Island and it is remarkable what Universal Creative were able to do in the short time they had. Genting and Star Cruises filed their proposal in 2006 and by 2007, construction on the land was starting with an opening in 2010. Its not like Singapore gave the whole island to Universal to build a park! They had limited space and they used Universal to do the theme park, Forrec for the water park and also built a huge aquarium in addition to the casino and hotels..

You still don't get my point. Let me clarify:
1) I never said that USS isn't a good park. In fact it is a really good park and it is definitely in Universal standards. All of the lands are well-done and there some amazing rides unique to the park.
2) What I'm trying to say is: I don't think that USS was a good move for Universal. They already knew that the park was not going to be owned by Comcast and that they had very limited space available. But they still pushed on. USS has had NO expansions since opening. The Transformers Ride (2011), the Sesame Street Spaghetti Chase (2012) and the Puss In Boots rollercoaster (2015) were either built on predesignated areas or squished into what ever space Sentosa found in the park. Nothing new has been announced since and I don't expect anything unless it involves the closure of an area or a ride. To wrap it up, USS may have just been a waste of time and money for Universal since it's 95% certain that it won't become the huge international destination like its other parks. Instead they could have focused on trying again in Europe in places like London or Rome (maybe even trying to beat Disney in Paris) or building something grander in the rest of East Asia.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Imagine how huge Wizarding World of Harry Potter would be in the U.K.

Yep. 100% true.

 

[Absimilliard]

You still don't get my point. Let me clarify:
1) I never said that USS isn't a good park. In fact it is a really good park and it is definitely in Universal standards. All of the lands are well-done and there some amazing rides unique to the park.
2) What I'm trying to say is: I don't think that USS was a good move for Universal. They already knew that the park was not going to be owned by Comcast and that they had very limited space available. But they still pushed on. USS has had NO expansions since opening. The Transformers Ride (2011), the Sesame Street Spaghetti Chase (2012) and the Puss In Boots rollercoaster (2015) were either built on predesignated areas or squished into what ever space Sentosa found in the park. Nothing new has been announced since and I don't expect anything unless it involves the closure of an area or a ride. To wrap it up, USS may have just been a waste of time and money for Universal since it's 95% certain that it won't become the huge international destination like its other parks. Instead they could have focused on trying again in Europe in places like London or Rome (maybe even trying to beat Disney in Paris) or building something grander in the rest of East Asia.

Your second point is moot since Universal designed what Genting wanted for the park. No, all theme parks can't cost 2 billion dollars and have infinite space. That Universal Creative was able to have those expansion pads already slotted in was good and the park did not waste time filling it up.

Second, "huge international destination" is correct for USS. Between Malaysia (31 million people), Indonesia (237 million people) and Thailand (67 million people) within a 2-3 hours flying time of Singapore, they have no issues attracting tourists. Add to that that India and China are also very popular and they got a good shot of attracting lots of foreigners. Now, those foreigners require adaptations, like prayer rooms and halal meals for muslims, vegeterian food for hindus, etc. and the park has done quite well at accommodating that.

Just for fun, what do you think is HKDL main target for a fresh audience now? Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and Oman... Explorer's Club, the restaurant attached to Mystic Manor is a fully compliant Halal restaurant and they also changed the menu at the Tahitian Terrace in Adventureland to reflect that. I visited Tokyo DisneySea last year with friends from Malaysia and even them are starting to adapt for that new travel loving middle class from Southeast Asia.

 

[Absimilliard]

You still don't get my point. Let me clarify:
1) I never said that USS isn't a good park. In fact it is a really good park and it is definitely in Universal standards. All of the lands are well-done and there some amazing rides unique to the park.
2) What I'm trying to say is: I don't think that USS was a good move for Universal. They already knew that the park was not going to be owned by Comcast and that they had very limited space available. But they still pushed on. USS has had NO expansions since opening. The Transformers Ride (2011), the Sesame Street Spaghetti Chase (2012) and the Puss In Boots rollercoaster (2015) were either built on predesignated areas or squished into what ever space Sentosa found in the park. Nothing new has been announced since and I don't expect anything unless it involves the closure of an area or a ride. To wrap it up, USS may have just been a waste of time and money for Universal since it's 95% certain that it won't become the huge international destination like its other parks. Instead they could have focused on trying again in Europe in places like London or Rome (maybe even trying to beat Disney in Paris) or building something grander in the rest of East Asia.

Back to Europe for a second: that market is beyond saturated for "theme parks" in western Europe. Let's go to Spain: Port Aventura has that market cornered nicely and even going to Madrid would run into Parque Warner Madrid, which is finally getting traction and is quite successful now. Italy? Its not a theme park market in the south near Rome and up north, Gardaland and Mirabilandia would put up a fight.

Germany? Forget about it! Europa Park and Phantasialand are the 500 lbs gorilla that would force Comcast to invest billions and still run into the fact they'd be a seasonal operation with a park either closed in winter or that runs a limited outdoor schedule. Netherlands has Efteling and Belgium has a few theme parks already.

What we consider a Disney or Universal experience with themed attractions and dark rides is the normal thing in Europe to do. Six Flags tried the opposite with pure thrill parks and would have been successful if they would not have been forced to sell the division to pay their debts. Compagnie des Alpes is focusing on thrills at Walibi Holland and its working there. It makes them different from Efteling and its large elaborate dark rides and themed coasters.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The Crate Adventure is a quite cute dark ride but I agree that it takes way to much space. I don't think that there is something else they could fit in that space anyway though.

The ride was supposed to be more. There is a whole unused upper level that was built.

2) What I'm trying to say is: I don't think that USS was a good move for Universal. They already knew that the park was not going to be owned by Comcast and that they had very limited space available. But they still pushed on. USS has had NO expansions since opening. The Transformers Ride (2011), the Sesame Street Spaghetti Chase (2012) and the Puss In Boots rollercoaster (2015) were either built on predesignated areas or squished into what ever space Sentosa found in the park. Nothing new has been announced since and I don't expect anything unless it involves the closure of an area or a ride. To wrap it up, USS may have just been a waste of time and money for Universal since it's 95% certain that it won't become the huge international destination like its other parks. Instead they could have focused on trying again in Europe in places like London or Rome (maybe even trying to beat Disney in Paris) or building something grander in the rest of East Asia.

Comcast did not yet own NBCUNiversal when Universal Studios Singapore was developed and opened. Universal didn't waste any money because Universal did not spend any money. Japan, Singapore, Korea, Dubailand and Moscow were all licensing deals where someone else would own the park and pay Universal Creative to design it. Volcano Bay was the first Universal park to be paid for and owned only by Universal at opening.

 

[erider]

If Universal would build a park in Europe, why not in the Paris region? Then you might get the Orlando effect, where people would visit that region for a week and visit both Universal and Disney parks and the parks could benefit from each other, both pulling more visitors in the region.

 

[brb1006]

If Universal would build a park in Europe, why not in the Paris region? Then you might get the Orlando effect, where people would visit that region for a week and visit both Universal and Disney parks and the parks could benefit from each other, both pulling more visitors in the region.

Except Disneyland Paris already has a rival theme park a few miles away called "Parc Asterix" which is an entire theme park themed and set in the universe of the French comic series Asterix. The Asterix series is so popular in France that the park rivals Disneyland Paris.

 

[erider]

Or another good spot for an European Universal park would be Amsterdam. It has one of the biggest airports in Europe, and Amsterdam is a very touristy city already. Also it's a very international city, so it wouldn't be a problem to have English be the main language in a Universal park there. Sorry to derail the Tokyo Disney tread further...

 

[brb1006]

Or another good spot for an European Universal park would be Amsterdam. It has one of the biggest airports in Europe, and Amsterdam is a very touristy city already. Also it's a very international city, so it wouldn't be a problem to have English be the main language in a Universal park there. Sorry to derail the Tokyo Disney tread further...

But The Netherlands already has it's own popular theme park called Efteling which is a large theme park.

 

[erider]

Except Disneyland Paris already has a rival theme park a few miles away called "Parc Asterix" which is an entire theme park themed and set in the universe of the French comic series Asterix. The Asterix series is so popular in France that the park rivals Disneyland Paris.

Parc Asterix is an ok park, I have visited it multiple times. It gets around 2,5 million visitors a year. But I don't think it has the pull of Universal. Maybe Parc Asterix also gets visitors who visit Disneyland Paris and visa versa, I'm just saying multiple theme parks in the same area could actually benefit from each other.

 

[erider]

But The Netherlands already has it's own popular theme park called Efteling which is a large theme park.

I know, I have an annual pass to the Efteling. It's still a very regional park though, with most visitors coming from Holland. Universal would be a park which would pull visitors from all over Europe. Also I don't think a lot of people visiting Amsterdam would also visit the Efteling since it's pretty far away (about a 1,5 hour drive).

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Back to Europe for a second: that market is beyond saturated for "theme parks" in western Europe. Let's go to Spain: Port Aventura has that market cornered nicely and even going to Madrid would run into Parque Warner Madrid, which is finally getting traction and is quite successful now. Italy? Its not a theme park market in the south near Rome and up north, Gardaland and Mirabilandia would put up a fight.

Germany? Forget about it! Europa Park and Phantasialand are the 500 lbs gorilla that would force Comcast to invest billions and still run into the fact they'd be a seasonal operation with a park either closed in winter or that runs a limited outdoor schedule. Netherlands has Efteling and Belgium has a few theme parks already.

What we consider a Disney or Universal experience with themed attractions and dark rides is the normal thing in Europe to do. Six Flags tried the opposite with pure thrill parks and would have been successful if they would not have been forced to sell the division to pay their debts. Compagnie des Alpes is focusing on thrills at Walibi Holland and its working there. It makes them different from Efteling and its large elaborate dark rides and themed coasters.

Yes. That's true. But all of those theme parks weren't that big in the 2000s. Between 2000 and 2010 Disneyland Paris was the single most popular theme park in Europe with Walt Disney Studios being the 2nd. Then Europa Park surpassed WDS, Efteling built some very elaborate dark rides, Tivoli Gardens built some new rides too, Ferrari World opened in PortAventura last year etc. If Universal had jumped on the opportunity to build a theme park back in the 2000s, there wouldn't had encountered a big competition, except for Disney of course. Parque Warner is successful but pales in comparison to other theme parks I mentioned and as far as attendance goes it sits at 1.8 million which is considerable ways back than PortAventura's 3.6 million. Seriously Uni's best bets right now are London, Rome (Gardaland is 130km east of Milan so no theme park in Southern Italy) or Moscow. By the way Europe Park doesn't operate in a seasonal schedule. They just close some rides during the winter. I don't know about Phantasialand.

Your second point is moot since Universal designed what Genting wanted for the park. No, all theme parks can't cost 2 billion dollars and have infinite space. That Universal Creative was able to have those expansion pads already slotted in was good and the park did not waste time filling it up.

Second, "huge international destination" is correct for USS. Between Malaysia (31 million people), Indonesia (237 million people) and Thailand (67 million people) within a 2-3 hours flying time of Singapore, they have no issues attracting tourists. Add to that that India and China are also very popular and they got a good shot of attracting lots of foreigners. Now, those foreigners require adaptations, like prayer rooms and halal meals for muslims, vegeterian food for hindus, etc. and the park has done quite well at accommodating that.

Just for fun, what do you think is HKDL main target for a fresh audience now? Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei and Oman... Explorer's Club, the restaurant attached to Mystic Manor is a fully compliant Halal restaurant and they also changed the menu at the Tahitian Terrace in Adventureland to reflect that. I visited Tokyo DisneySea last year with friends from Malaysia and even them are starting to adapt for that new travel loving middle class from Southeast Asia.

I know and I have already said that with the small space they had, it is really impressive what lands and rides they stuffed into the park. I just said that it might have been a waste of time (not money, someone said that in a post above and he is correct) because it would be much better if they had focused their efforts in a park that had more possibilities to be a huge success.

International destination huh? Then why a very good theme park located in one of the most populated regions on the planet only had 4 million guests in 2017? And why HKDL had 6 million guests in 2017? Because the Hong Kong government gave Disney a huge space that they could play with and that's why HKDL has expanded and continues to expand considerably. It also benefits from the much bigger population of Hong Kong and the Pearl River Delta in general. They even have space for a second park! In its opening year (2011) USS had 3 million guests. USJ was originally designed in the same way like USS. But when it opened a decade earlier it had far more guests. Can you take a guess? 5 million? 7 million? No, 11 million people visited USJ in 2001 and it became the fastest park to reach the 10 million milestone to date. That's because:
1) It was located in a far more convenient area to become not only a national but an international destination with visitors from China, South Korea, Taiwan etc.
2) Osaka's population is 19 million (compared to Singapore's 6 million) and it is also a 2.5 and 1.5 hour train ride from Japan's two other huge cities; Tokyo and Nagoya.
3) Japan is has a huge population that is also rich. South Korea and Taiwan are also wealthy. China is definitely middle class right now. Therefore they can travel. That's not to say that Singapore isn't wealthy but its neighboring countries with their huge populations are not and that's the reason most of the people can't pay for the flight tickets. From Malaysia's 31 million only 2 million visited Singapore in 2017 and from Indonesia's massive 237 million, only 3 million people bothered to visit in 2017. Not even half of them passed the gates of USS. Chinese have the largest piece of the pie in Singapore's tourism market and yet they have hundreds of amusement parks in their own country so they tend to stay in the city. Thailand isn't even in the top 10.

For the above reasons I consider USS to be a big regional amusement park.

 

[Absimilliard]

Yes. That's true. But all of those theme parks weren't that big in the 2000s. Between 2000 and 2010 Disneyland Paris was the single most popular theme park in Europe with Walt Disney Studios being the 2nd. Then Europa Park surpassed WDS, Efteling built some very elaborate dark rides, Tivoli Gardens built some new rides too, Ferrari World opened in PortAventura last year etc. If Universal had jumped on the opportunity to build a theme park back in the 2000s, there wouldn't had encountered a big competition, except for Disney of course. Parque Warner is successful but pales in comparison to other theme parks I mentioned and as far as attendance goes it sits at 1.8 million which is considerable ways back than PortAventura's 3.6 million. Seriously Uni's best bets right now are London, Rome (Gardaland is 130km east of Milan so no theme park in Southern Italy) or Moscow. By the way Europe Park doesn't operate in a seasonal schedule. They just close some rides during the winter. I don't know about Phantasialand.

I know and I have already said that with the small space they had, it is really impressive what lands and rides they stuffed into the park. I just said that it might have been a waste of time (not money, someone said that in a post above and he is correct) because it would be much better if they had focused their efforts in a park that had more possibilities to be a huge success.

International destination huh? Then why a very good theme park located in one of the most populated regions on the planet only had 4 million guests in 2017? And why HKDL had 6 million guests in 2017? Because the Hong Kong government gave Disney a huge space that they could play with and that's why HKDL has expanded and continues to expand considerably. It also benefits from the much bigger population of Hong Kong and the Pearl River Delta in general. They even have space for a second park! In its opening year (2011) USS had 3 million guests. USJ was originally designed in the same way like USS. But when it opened a decade earlier it had far more guests. Can you take a guess? 5 million? 7 million? No, 11 million people visited USJ in 2001 and it became the fastest park to reach the 10 million milestone to date. That's because:
1) It was located in a far more convenient area to become not only a national but an international destination with visitors from China, South Korea, Taiwan etc.
2) Osaka's population is 19 million (compared to Singapore's 6 million) and it is also a 2.5 and 1.5 hour train ride from Japan's two other huge cities; Tokyo and Nagoya.
3) Japan is has a huge population that is also rich. South Korea and Taiwan are also wealthy. China is definitely middle class right now. Therefore they can travel. That's not to say that Singapore isn't wealthy but its neighboring countries with their huge populations are not and that's the reason most of the people can't pay for the flight tickets. From Malaysia's 31 million only 2 million visited Singapore in 2017 and from Indonesia's massive 237 million, only 3 million people bothered to visit in 2017. Not even half of them passed the gates of USS. Chinese have the largest piece of the pie in Singapore's tourism market and yet they have hundreds of amusement parks in their own country so they tend to stay in the city. Thailand isn't even in the top 10.

For the above reasons I consider USS to be a big regional amusement park.

Europa Park will close off its summer season on November 4th this year. The winter season will start on November 24th and end daily operation on January 6th 2019. It will be open an additional weekend on January 12th and 13th 2019 before closing the rest of January, February and reopening late March. So yes, it is a seasonal operation with roughly 3 months of closure.

Phantasialand is nearly the same except the winter season ends January 20th 2019. I visited in Winter years ago and it was quite an experience! It had snowed overnight, so maintenance was sweeping snow off coaster tracks when we showed up in the morning and they had turned the river rapids ride into a skating rink. They had campfires around the paths to keep guests warm.

London is not an option for Disney since planning permission would be impossible to get and the fact the land that could be built on is so expensive. Look up the Warner Bros studio tour with Harry Potter: in order to get permission to build and open, they had to control traffic in the area by only selling a fixed number of tickets in advance to the park. Walk-ups are not allowed. Imagine now a Disney park with a potential 10 million visitors a year and think of all the restrictions that would be placed on Disney.

Rome tourist demographic is not theme park oriented at all.

Back to Asia, Taiwan is a hot potato politically and Disney and Universal would lose it all in China if they would build there. Look up the recent thing with Mainland China where they forced foreign airlines that serve China to stop referring to Taiwan as just "Taiwan". Also, notice that there are little embassies for foreign countries in Taiwan...

South Korea already has Lotte World (owned by the Lotte Group) and Everland (owned by Samsung) near Seoul. More south, you have Gyeongju World that cornered the market in that area with a brand new 20 million dollars B&M Dive Coaster and a large waterpark. Competition there will be quite ferocious and I am curious to see if Universal Studios Korea plans will be revived or it will join Universal Studios Dubailand in the "announced but never built category".

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

USJ was originally designed in the same way like USS. But when it opened a decade earlier it had far more guests. Can you take a guess? 5 million? 7 million? No, 11 million people visited USJ in 2001 and it became the fastest park to reach the 10 million milestone to date.

TDS actually holds the record of fastest park to 10 million guests at 307 days. USJ took 338 days and was the previous record holder.

Interestingly, USJ attendance dropped quite sharply in 2002 (its first full year) to 8 million guests. Compare that to 2001, where it had 9 million guests in just 9 months of operation (from its grand opening to end of the calendar year).

https://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/shawg/extra/topparks2001.html
https://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/shawg/extra/topparks2002.html