Tokyo Disneyland Resort Expansion

[ThemeParkTraveller]

As we are on the topic I need to address something else too. It's really weird to have an entire mini-land dedicated to Peter Pan but still have Peter Pan's Flight in Disneyland, IMO. I expect the company to address this issue by announcing that something else will replace it. Does anybody have any feedback on this?

Based on the original plans, the old Fantasyland will likely get a renovation in the future to bring it up to the quality of the Beauty and the Beast area. There was supposed to be an Alice themed area as part of this expansion, but that was shelved after they decided not to move and rebuild it's a small world closer to Tomorrowland. I would bet they still have plans to build that in the future (Alice is a very popular IP in Japan), so it's likely Peter Pan, Snow White, etc will be removed to make space.

Concept art for the proposed Alice area:

 

[Daveeeeed]

The Pirates franchise was indeed very popular in Japan. Box office wise, it was on par with Jurassic Park or Star Wars at its peak and lagging noticeably behind only the Harry Potter franchise. You make a great point about the Pirates summer show. I've never seen such a huge and energized crowd at one of the seasonal event shows. I think they originally only intended to use the summer event to promote the fifth Pirates film, but its popularity caused it to return this year (and probably many others). No question, it's the most successful summer event they've ever done.

Before the announcement by OLC, a Pirates port was one of my predictions for their next major expansion. It's a logical and seamless fit for TDS, and I would be surprised if something similar to SDL's Treasure Cove wasn't proposed by Disney to OLC in their expansion discussions. I suspect it's still one of the frontrunners for the expansion pad besides Indy just because it's still one of the most popular IPs that can fit into TDS. OLC's recent stance has been to focus on exclusive additions though, so a potential Pirates port would have to be quite different from Shanghai's (similar to how TDS is getting a unique and larger scale Frozen E-ticket).

Wholeheartedly agree. I saw it last week and was amazed by the audience interaction. It was such a fun environment. And truly, Pirates would be one of the best lands to fit at DisneySea. I also really love how Arabian Coast is setup by it being a Middle East land, but also having an Aladdin attraction. It makes for a great balance of original and IP rides/attractions. The land itself is spectacular (the alleys/scale of the land, and the restaurant is like Be Our Guest theming), and a Frozen Port like that would have been amazing. At least there’s still an entire port for an expansion. I’m still pulling for Pirates. In my opinion it’s the best ride on Earth and it’s not even close, and on top of that, it would fit perfectly aesthetically and story-wise at DisneySea. It’s by far the best park theming wise, but Pirates would make it also have arguably the best lineup of rides.

Yep you're both right. After some more search it seems that the PoTC franchise has made quite a substantial amount of money in Japan. I know that many people say it has declined in quality and that the franchise is sinking, but I really enjoyed last year's film and I have re-watched it many times since.

I have never been to TDS but I recently saw the video of the particular show and it seems to draw a big amount of people. In all fairness the show is really good. A pirate-themed land would be a really good fit for TDS. Something in the scale of Treasure Cove would be an epic addition to the park along with the Battle of the Sunken Treasure in Shanghai. That being said, a Norway/Frozen area would be solid too if it was like the Arabian Coast (a distinctive land with some theming derived from IPs). But alas, we're getting a brand new themed port based on 3 very popular animated movies. As it has been said many times in the forum, I think that would be a much better addition to TDL's Fantasyland. On the other hand though, if it weren't to replace any existing rides, Fantasyland would become absolutely massive (due to the BaTB area) which isn't always a good thing. I really hope that the OLC makes the land look like it belongs in DisneySea and doesn't feel like an exclave of Fantasyland.

As we are on the topic I need to address something else too. It's really weird to have an entire mini-land dedicated to Peter Pan but still have Peter Pan's Flight in Disneyland, IMO. I expect the company to address this issue by announcing that something else will replace it. Does anybody have any feedback on this?

The last pirates movie was as very entertaining. It also had great cinematography and a really good looking villain, but writing kind of bugged me, not like the trrrible 4th one didn’t, but it’s still had problems. Now that doesn’t mean Pirates itself isn’t not a beloved franchise, so I definitely agree.

Japan’s love of Harry Potter single handedly brought Universal’s park to become its highest attended park. Pirates really could have a big impact too since it’s still very popular albeit not as large. It’s also a good move on OLC’s part to make Frozen an E-ticket because of its popularity.

There are Toy Story rides at both parks (both shooters at that), so I don’t think they really would care too much, but it would be great to have a change. Just don’t touch Snow White or Pinocchio! Haha. Really hoping OLC does some facade & pathway changed in Fantasyland. It would be really nice to have a proper Dumbo and have HM more on its own.
Anyway, we can bet anything OLC is doing is of highest quality!

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Wholeheartedly agree. I saw it last week and was amazed by the audience interaction. It was such a fun environment. And truly, Pirates would be one of the best lands to fit at DisneySea. I also really love how Arabian Coast is setup by it being a Middle East land, but also having an Aladdin attraction. It makes for a great balance of original and IP rides/attractions. The land itself is spectacular (the alleys/scale of the land, and the restaurant is like Be Our Guest theming), and a Frozen Port like that would have been amazing. At least there’s still an entire port for an expansion. I’m still pulling for Pirates. In my opinion it’s the best ride on Earth and it’s not even close, and on top of that, it would fit perfectly aesthetically and story-wise at DisneySea. It’s by far the best park theming wise, but Pirates would make it also have arguably the best lineup of rides.

If a Pirates port does make it to TDS, it would also be a great opportunity to renovate/update Adventureland at TDL. Re-theme PotC and the entire New Orleans area into something more cohesive and congruent with the rest of Adventureland. Something like Moana would fit very well.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Japan’s love of Harry Potter single handedly brought Universal’s park to become its highest attended park. Pirates really could have a big impact too since it’s still very popular albeit not as large. It’s also a good move on OLC’s part to make Frozen an E-ticket because of its popularity.

There are Toy Story rides at both parks (both shooters at that), so I don’t think they really would care too much, but it would be great to have a change. Just don’t touch Snow White or Pinocchio! Haha. Really hoping OLC does some facade & pathway changed in Fantasyland. It would be really nice to have a proper Dumbo and have HM more on its own.
Anyway, we can bet anything OLC is doing is of highest quality!

No, not really. According to TEACOM, Tokyo Disneyland is still first with 16.6 million guests in 2017, followed by USJ at almost 15 million and DisneySea at 13,500,000. While it didn't make USJ the most attended theme park in Japan, I agree that Harry Potter gave the huge boost that the park needed and it brought more than 2 million additional guests in 2015 (the year after it opened). The huge crowds that the park attracts will likely continue to rise though due to the Minion Park being insanely popular since it opened last year and will peak with Nintendo World and the Tokyo Olympics in 2020. TDL on the other hand has lost more than 1 million guests since 2014 so I wouldn't be surprised if USJ overtook it in 3-4 years (although that may not be the case with BaTB in 2020 and Fantasy Springs in 2022).

You said it. There are two Toy Story rides in both parks. Not an entire mini-land. Here we have a mini-land dedicated to Peter Pan but still have Peter Pan's Flight in a park just across from the entrance to TDS. The two Toy Story rides at least have different stories. Idk maybe the OLC will make a different plot for the Peter Pan ride in TDS and leave the original one in TDL (highly unlikely if you ask me). With the BaTB area opening in 2020 it will be a good idea to overhaul Fantasyland and finally close the original to make way for something new.

Based on the original plans, the old Fantasyland will likely get a renovation in the future to bring it up to the quality of the Beauty and the Beast area. There was supposed to be an Alice themed area as part of this expansion, but that was shelved after they decided not to move and rebuild it's a small world closer to Tomorrowland. I would bet they still have plans to build that in the future (Alice is a very popular IP in Japan), so it's likely Peter Pan, Snow White, etc will be removed to make space.

Concept art for the proposed Alice area:

Yeah this was scaled back too in 2016 along with Norway/Arendelle. If Peter Pan and Snow White were to be removed though and wouldn't free up a lot of space IMO (IASW has a massive show building) and it would also make the Philharmagic/Pinocchio side of Fantasyland look out of place. My bet is that if the OLC announced it, it would take over Toontown (sorry Mickey ) since there is already a dark ride there and the land is pretty good-sized for such an expansion.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

No, not really. According to TEACOM, Tokyo Disneyland is still first with 16.6 million guests in 2017, followed by USJ at almost 15 million and DisneySea at 13,500,000. While it didn't make USJ the most attended theme park in Japan, I agree that Harry Potter gave the huge boost that the park needed and it brought more than 2 million additional guests in 2015 (the year after it opened). The huge crowds that the park attracts will likely continue to rise though due to the Minion Park being insanely popular since it opened last year and will peak with Nintendo World and the Tokyo Olympics in 2020. TDL on the other hand has lost more than 1 million guests since 2014 so I wouldn't be surprised if USJ overtook it in 3-4 years (although that may not be the case with BaTB in 2020 and Fantasy Springs in 2022).

2014 was a record year for TDR, so it's not too surprising that attendance is slightly lower in 2017 with no major additions since then. 2017 is still the 4th highest recorded attendance at the resort after 2013-2015. Attendance jumped almost 4 million guests from 2012 (I read Toy Story Mania was a big reason), so it's probably settling to a new normal until the major expansions open.

2017: 30,100,000 persons
2016: 30,004,000 persons
2015: 30,191,000 persons
2014: 31,377,000 persons (record-setting high up to this time)
2013: 31,298,000 persons
2012: 27,503,000 persons

OLC is projecting 31 million guests for 2018 because of the 35th anniversary celebration and additionally expect 2020 to break the 2014 attendance record. I believe TDR will see a larger bump in attendance than USJ from the Olympics just because of proximity and convenience to the majority of visitors, a large portion of whom may not leave Tokyo. Regarding the effect of the new port in 2023, Frozen is so insanely popular in Japan that I would not be surprised if TDS got an attendance bump to bring it close to TDL in attendance.

Yeah this was scaled back too in 2016 along with Norway/Arendelle. If Peter Pan and Snow White were to be removed though and wouldn't free up a lot of space IMO (IASW has a massive show building) and it would also make the Philharmagic/Pinocchio side of Fantasyland look out of place. My bet is that if the OLC announced it, it would take over Toontown (sorry Mickey ) since there is already a dark ride there and the land is pretty good-sized for such an expansion.

You're right that Peter Pan and Snow White combined isn't enough for something significant, at least not without removing more rides to make space. It's still enough space for a new E-ticket if they can integrate the adjacent F&B facilities and foliage . Mickey & Friends are too popular for them to get rid of Toontown in my opinion. As you mentioned earlier, this would also make Fantasyland too massive compared to the other lands. What's more likely is Roger Rabbit being replaced with the Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway going to DHS (although this will take up a lot more space than just the Roger Rabbit show building). I'm sure PhilharMagic and Pinocchio would get their own updates/replacements eventually when they are renovating that entire part of Fantasyland. Combined with Peter Pan and Show White, that's quite a bit of land to work with if they are removed.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

2014 was a record year for TDR, so it's not too surprising that attendance is slightly lower in 2017 with no major additions since then. 2017 is still the 4th highest recorded attendance at the resort after 2013-2015. Attendance jumped almost 4 million guests from 2012 (I read Toy Story Mania was a big reason), so it's probably settling to a new normal until the major expansions open.
OLC is projecting 31 million guests for 2018 because of the 35th anniversary celebration and additionally expect 2020 to break the 2014 attendance record. I believe TDR will see a larger bump in attendance than USJ from the Olympics just because of proximity and convenience to the majority of visitors, a large portion of whom may not leave Tokyo. Regarding the effect of the new port in 2023, Frozen is so insanely popular in Japan that I would not be surprised if TDS got an attendance bump to bring it close to TDL in attendance.

You make a good point but when theme parks don't add anything, they don't usually see attendance drops but they usually remain the same. That's at least what happens to other Disney parks. What I'm trying to say is that the opening of Harry Potter, Minion Park and the Flying Dinosaur in USJ have taken their toll on both TDL and TDS. That will probably change though as you say with the Olympics in 2020 due to TDR being much closer. The Olympics always bring more tourists in the city they are hosted. That's why the huge transformation of the Walt Disney Studios Park is going to finish in 2024, in time for the Paris Olympics and I expect something similar to happen in Disneyland for the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles.

You're right that Peter Pan and Snow White combined isn't enough for something significant, at least not without removing more rides to make space. It's still enough space for a new E-ticket if they can integrate the adjacent F&B facilities and foliage . Mickey & Friends are too popular for them to get rid of Toontown in my opinion. As you mentioned earlier, this would also make Fantasyland too massive compared to the other lands. What's more likely is Roger Rabbit being replaced with the Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway going to DHS (although this will take up a lot more space than just the Roger Rabbit show building). I'm sure PhilharMagic and Pinocchio would get their own updates/replacements eventually when they are renovating that entire part of Fantasyland. Combined with Peter Pan and Show White, that's quite a bit of land to work with if they are removed.

I'm guessing that an overhaul of Fantasyland will happen after Fantasy Springs and it should get rid off Peter Pan and Philharmagic. Snow White and Pinocchio can be remade to look up to date but they are located next to the ones mentioned above so they will probably have the same fate. We can only guess right now about the direction that OLC will take. In regards to Toontown as I said it is a perfect expansion pad for Fantasyland but that probably won't happen (Minnie is getting a new studio there). I like Roger Rabbit; it's a cute dark ride and perfectly fits the theme of Toontown. They need to really expand the show building though if MMRR is going there so that too is probably unlikely.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

You make a good point but when theme parks don't add anything, they don't usually see attendance drops but they usually remain the same. That's at least what happens to other Disney parks. What I'm trying to say is that the opening of Harry Potter, Minion Park and the Flying Dinosaur in USJ have taken their toll on both TDL and TDS. That will probably change though as you say with the Olympics in 2020 due to TDR being much closer. The Olympics always bring more tourists in the city they are hosted. That's why the huge transformation of the Walt Disney Studios Park is going to finish in 2024, in time for the Paris Olympics and I expect something similar to happen in Disneyland for the 2028 Olympics in Los Angeles.

I agree that USJ is having an effect on TDR. I think they are one of the main reasons why OLC is approving so many major expansions after years of stagnation. No doubt USJ is much stronger competition now than the last decade, when it lagged significantly behind TDL and even TDS in attendance. OLC is likely interested in keeping both TDL and TDS attendance above USJ, as we likely wouldn't be seeing such a huge expenditure by OLC otherwise.

This is similar to how USO's growth is causing WDW to expand much faster than they have in the past in order to catch up. All the Universal parks are starting to get close or surpass the Disney parks in their respective locations. USJ has passed TDS in attendance, the two USO parks are getting dangerously close to DHS (though Star Wars Land will change this), and USH is very close to passing DCA in attendance too.

 

[Daveeeeed]

No, not really. According to TEACOM, Tokyo Disneyland is still first with 16.6 million guests in 2017, followed by USJ at almost 15 million and DisneySea at 13,500,000. While it didn't make USJ the most attended theme park in Japan, I agree that Harry Potter gave the huge boost that the park needed and it brought more than 2 million additional guests in 2015 (the year after it opened). The huge crowds that the park attracts will likely continue to rise though due to the Minion Park being insanely popular since it opened last year and will peak with Nintendo World and the Tokyo Olympics in 2020. TDL on the other hand has lost more than 1 million guests since 2014 so I wouldn't be surprised if USJ overtook it in 3-4 years (although that may not be the case with BaTB in 2020 and Fantasy Springs in 2022).

You said it. There are two Toy Story rides in both parks. Not an entire mini-land. Here we have a mini-land dedicated to Peter Pan but still have Peter Pan's Flight in a park just across from the entrance to TDS. The two Toy Story rides at least have different stories. Idk maybe the OLC will make a different plot for the Peter Pan ride in TDS and leave the original one in TDL (highly unlikely if you ask me). With the BaTB area opening in 2020 it will be a good idea to overhaul Fantasyland and finally close the original to make way for something new.


Yeah this was scaled back too in 2016 along with Norway/Arendelle. If Peter Pan and Snow White were to be removed though and wouldn't free up a lot of space IMO (IASW has a massive show building) and it would also make the Philharmagic/Pinocchio side of Fantasyland look out of place. My bet is that if the OLC announced it, it would take over Toontown (sorry Mickey ) since there is already a dark ride there and the land is pretty good-sized for such an expansion.

What I meant was that it was Universal’s most attended park on Earth. It kind of irks me that it’s such a highly attended park. OLC’s parks blow it away and it’s not even remotely close. Anyway, Disney will be getting a TON soon, so we’ll see what happens!

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

I agree that USJ is having an effect on TDR. I think they are one of the main reasons why OLC is approving so many major expansions after years of stagnation. No doubt USJ is much stronger competition now than the last decade, when it lagged significantly behind TDL and even TDS in attendance. OLC is likely interested in keeping both TDL and TDS attendance above USJ, as we likely wouldn't be seeing such a huge expenditure by OLC otherwise.

This is similar to how USO's growth is causing WDW to expand much faster than they have in the past in order to catch up. All the Universal parks are starting to get close or surpass the Disney parks in their respective locations. USJ has passed TDS in attendance, the two USO parks are getting dangerously close to DHS (though Star Wars Land will change this), and USH is very close to passing DCA in attendance too.

What I meant was that it was Universal’s most attended park on Earth. It kind of irks me that it’s such a highly attended park. OLC’s parks blow it away and it’s not even remotely close. Anyway, Disney will be getting a TON soon, so we’ll see what happens!

Universal is making huge efforts to bring its parks up to Disney level in both countries. Harry Potter is the main reason that USJ and USH have such high attendance numbers while the continuous construction of rides is why USF and IOA manage to thrive. Curiously, the only Universal park that doesn't get any attention right now in Universal Studios Singapore (which many people don't know it exists). It would make really good money for Universal if it had more attractions since it's located in one of the busiest cities on the planet and it's the only major theme park within a large part of the world. It could easily go in the top 5 most visited in Asia (currently 11th) and in the top 15 in the world (currently 25th). I can see clearly why OLC thinks that Universal is a threat.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Universal is making huge efforts to bring its parks up to Disney level in both countries. Harry Potter is the main reason that USJ and USH have such high attendance numbers while the continuous construction of rides is why USF and IOA manage to thrive. Curiously, the only Universal park that doesn't get any attention right now in Universal Studios Singapore (which many people don't know it exists). It would make really good money for Universal if it had more attractions since it's located in one of the busiest cities on the planet and it's the only major theme park within a large part of the world. It could easily go in the top 5 most visited in Asia (currently 11th) and in the top 15 in the world (currently 25th). I can see clearly why OLC thinks that Universal is a threat.

Universal Studios Singapore is a weird case. It doesn't appear to have much room for expansion, and I suspect it's largely being ignored because it's not actually owned by Comcast. It's definitely the weakest of their parks right now, which is a shame because it has a fantastic location like you mentioned.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

Universal Studios Singapore is a weird case. It doesn't appear to have much room for expansion, and I suspect it's largely being ignored because it's not actually owned by Comcast. It's definitely the weakest of their parks right now, which is a shame because it has a fantastic location like you mentioned.

That's absolutely true. Actually USS has NO room for expansion. The north, east and west side of the park are surrounded by highways and on the south side is a CityWalk-type area. I don't know if the park was planned with an expansion space in mind but it doesn't seem to have any right now.

 

[Daveeeeed]

That's absolutely true. Actually USS has NO room for expansion. The north, east and west side of the park are surrounded by highways and on the south side is a CityWalk-type area. I don't know if the park was planned with an expansion space in mind but it doesn't seem to have any right now.

It was done on the cheap originally, and intended as a park meant for a lesser crowd. Which isn’t necessarily bad in the same way that Six Flags is mainly for locals and the close regions.

Sort of like Hong Kong Disneyland, but more so. It has a different purpose than Uni’s main parks.

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

It was done on the cheap originally, and intended as a park meant for a lesser crowd. Which isn’t necessarily bad in the same way that Six Flags is mainly for locals and the close regions.

Sort of like Hong Kong Disneyland, but more so. It has a different purpose than Uni’s main parks.

That's what I said. It was a bad move by Universal. USS could have become very successful if it was built correctly (I mean not as a small regional park but as international destination). I don't think that HKDL was designed to be like that, but it was probably a victim of a low budget. Disney and Universal must have realized that such parks don't work and that's why they have gone big with Shanghai Disneyland and Universal Studios Beijing.

 

[Absimilliard]

That's what I said. It was a bad move by Universal. USS could have become very successful if it was built correctly (I mean not as a small regional park but as international destination). I don't think that HKDL was designed to be like that, but it was probably a victim of a low budget. Disney and Universal must have realized that such parks don't work and that's why they have gone big with Shanghai Disneyland and Universal Studios Beijing.

A bit of context is necessary: Universal Studios Singapore is owned by Resorts World Sentosa and is part of that complex. A theme park was not the main focus... What is near the park entrance is: a casino. Around the late 1990's, Singapore put out a request for proposals for two casinos in the city state. One became the Marina Bay Sands, the other Resorts World Sentosa. An aquarium, a waterpark, hotels and an amusement complimented the casino on Sentosa Island.

They then shopped around an operator and they signed with Universal to get a park developped and running. As for expansion, the park is indeed landlocked, but there is one ride that needs to be replaced. The Magadascar Crate Adventure opened without its drop and the ride is a dud that takes up way too much land.

For more info on Sentosa and how the waterpark looks like, check this: https://parkvault.net/2017/09/04/ad...rld-sentosa-part-2-of-the-water-park-history/ I wrote it last year after visiting the park.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Is USJ owned by Comcast?

Or does it follow the TDR model?

 

[Absimilliard]

Is USJ owned by Comcast?

Or does it follow the TDR model?

Was originally owned by investors and Comcast acquired it for 2.3 billion dollars in 2017.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Was originally owned by investors and Comcast acquired it for 2.3 billion dollars in 2017.

Interesting, thanks!

 

[JohnyKaz2078]

A bit of context is necessary: Universal Studios Singapore is owned by Resorts World Sentosa and is part of that complex. A theme park was not the main focus... What is near the park entrance is: a casino. Around the late 1990's, Singapore put out a request for proposals for two casinos in the city state. One became the Marina Bay Sands, the other Resorts World Sentosa. An aquarium, a waterpark, hotels and an amusement complimented the casino on Sentosa Island.

They then shopped around an operator and they signed with Universal to get a park developped and running. As for expansion, the park is indeed landlocked, but there is one ride that needs to be replaced. The Magadascar Crate Adventure opened without its drop and the ride is a dud that takes up way too much land.

For more info on Sentosa and how the waterpark looks like, check this: https://parkvault.net/2017/09/04/ad...rld-sentosa-part-2-of-the-water-park-history/ I wrote it last year after visiting the park.

I know that it isn't owned by Universal. I haven't been to Sentosa but my parents have and they have told me that it is quite good. I just said that Universal could have built a really grand park post-2001 (when USJ opened) while Disney was straggling but they botched that opportunity. Even if they wanted to build one in Singapore they could have tried in a different part of the city or negotiate the deal with the goverment. The Crate Adventure is a quite cute dark ride but I agree that it takes way to much space. I don't think that there is something else they could fit in that space anyway though.

P.S: I'm really confused to why there is no Universal park in Europe yet. Maybe 1 day

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

P.S: I'm really confused to why there is no Universal park in Europe yet. Maybe 1 day

For seven years, PortAventura in Spain was considered one. But I agree they should properly build one from scratch in Europe. Imagine how huge Wizarding World of Harry Potter would be in the U.K.

 

[Timothy_Q]

For seven years, PortAventura in Spain was considered one. But I agree they should properly build one from scratch in Europe. Imagine how huge Wizarding World of Harry Potter would be in the U.K.

Honestly, Uni could do an entire HP park in the UK.

It would drive tourism like crazy