Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[GoneForGood]

I suppose it was less of an essay, more of that post I had made a few pages ago. It mentions the Gullah- Geechee people and their influence in these stories and history. I feel like their involvement in Brer Rabbit's history can go overlooked. Now, I never brought it up to excuse it of any criticism. But to give some form of context.

I also have a good friend who has made an actual 6 part (possibly more) essay about Brer Rabbit, his history, controversy, and misuse. Goes into far more detail about many aspects to this story.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I suppose it was less of an essay, more of that post I had made a few pages ago. *(I was being facetious.) It mentions the Gullah- Geechee people and their influence in these stories and history. I feel like their involvement in Brer Rabbit's history can go overlooked. Now, I never brought it up to excuse it of any criticism. But to give some form of context.

The African roots of these characters are overlooked a lot, including by Disney.

 

[GoneForGood]

The African roots of these characters are overlooked a lot, including by Disney

Oh absolutely. Especially their Indigenous roots. That friend I had mentioned taught me about it. I had no idea.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Oh absolutely. Especially their Indigenous roots. That friend I had mentioned taught me about it. I had no idea.

I didn’t know either until 2019. However, I’m not surprised that African folktales aren’t well known here. And not surprised that we’re more familiar with European folktales.

 

[GoneForGood]

I didn’t know either until 2019. However, I’m not surprised that African folktales aren’t well known here. And not surprised that we’re more familiar with European folktales.

You know, I'm let down that John Henry isn't on Disney+. Favorite Disney short of all time.

 

[Californian Elitist]

You know, I'm let down that John Henry isn't on Disney+. Favorite Disney short of all time.

I thought it was on there? But now that I’m thinking about it, I did sort of recently watch it, but not on Disney+. It was on YouTube. Hopefully they put it on there soon.

 

[Kirby86]

You know, I'm let down that John Henry isn't on Disney+. Favorite Disney short of all time.

Yeah when it comes to the classic shorts on Disney+ a lot are missing especially early Silly Symphonies. Even early Mickey Mouse shorts are missing. It seems like under Iger the company moved away from Walt era stuff.
Edit: I just saw the John Henry Short was a 2000s era short but still Pre-Iger era of Disney seems to be pushed to the side.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Yeah when it comes to the classic shorts on Disney+ a lot are missing especially early Silly Symphonies. Even early Mickey Mouse shorts are missing. It seems like under Iger the company moved away from Walt era stuff.
Edit: I just saw the John Henry Short was a 2000s era short but still Pre-Iger era of Disney seems to be pushed to the side.

At least it isn't as bad as how ViacomCBS has treated their non Betty Boop theatrical shorts that they own. Literally over 99% of which haven't been seen since the 90's which includes well over 1,500 shorts from Fleischer, Terrytoons, and Famous Studios/Paramount Cartoon Studios.

 

[CaptinEO]

I'm a music teacher. Kids and teens know Princess and the Frog way more than Zip-a-dee. They actually taught me the music to Princess and the Frog.

Just because you grew up with a song doesn't mean it's marketable to a new generation (probably removed by two generations)

The Zip-a-dee sequence was the only part of Song of the South I remember seeing before I watched the entire film as an adult. The idea of Remus' Iife being *satisfactual* is a big part of what's wrong with the film.

And of course "How Do You Do" sets up and underscores the tar baby sequence, and is heavily featured in Splash. You'd probably not find a kid who knows that song.

And of course Song of the South has the slaves singing "gonna stay right here in the home I know" and has a verse about being "glad he let you stay" which is likely more of a reference to their master than God.

Yeah, I know they are *technically* sharecroppers but that is never made clear in the film, although the Hays office wanted it to be made clear with text at the beginning of the film, which Disney ultimately did not include.

Wow kids don't watch banned movies from the 1940s? How surprising.

 

[celluloid]

Yeah when it comes to the classic shorts on Disney+ a lot are missing especially early Silly Symphonies. Even early Mickey Mouse shorts are missing. It seems like under Iger the company moved away from Walt era stuff.
Edit: I just saw the John Henry Short was a 2000s era short but still Pre-Iger era of Disney seems to be pushed to the side.

Yeah, Bob Iger's era has really been 1989 Mermaid and Pixar with the occasional classic princess and of course Star Wars.

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

Yeah. Song of the South was probably still being rereleased in theaters then.

 

[Ghost93]

You know, I'm let down that John Henry isn't on Disney+. Favorite Disney short of all time.

Ironically enough, the John Henry short was originally planned to coincide with a VHS/DVD release of Song of the South in the late 90s/early 2000s. The idea was to have a host introduce Song of the South and try to place it in a historic context. Then, after SOTS finished playing, the host would introduce John Henry as a way of showing the progress that Disney had made in the way it depicts Black people. The John Henry short was really a tactic by Disney to try to offset some of the controversies a SotS home video release would inevitably create. If people started calling Disney racist by releasing SotS, Disney would then use the John Henry short as proof they are not racist. A shield from criticism, so to speak.

Apparently, Maya Angelou was asked to be the host for the SotS/John Henry release. While she liked John Henry she hated Song of the South, and threatened to take part in boycotts of the Disney company should Song of the South ever be released. Other Black people that Disney had sought out to host the Song of the South video release had a similar reaction.

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

Ironically enough, the John Henry short was originally planned to coincide with a VHS/DVD release of Song of the South in the late 90s/early 2000s. The idea was to have a host introduce Song of the South and try to place it in a historic context. Then, after SOTS finished playing, the host would introduce John Henry as a way of showing the progress that Disney had made in the way it depicts Black people. The John Henry short was really a tactic by Disney to try to offset some of the controversies a SotS home video release would inevitably create. If people started calling Disney racist by releasing SotS, Disney would then use the John Henry short as proof they are not racist. A shield from criticism, so to speak.

Apparently, Maya Angelou was asked to be the host for the SotS/John Henry release. While she liked John Henry she hated Song of the South, and threatened to take part in boycotts of the Disney company should Song of the South ever be released. Other Black people that Disney had sought out to host the Song of the South video release had a similar reaction.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the context.

 

[GoneForGood]

Ironically enough, the John Henry short was originally planned to coincide with a VHS/DVD release of Song of the South in the late 90s/early 2000s. The idea was to have a host introduce Song of the South and try to place it in a historic context. Then, after SOTS finished playing, the host would introduce John Henry as a way of showing the progress that Disney had made in the way it depicts Black people. The John Henry short was really a tactic by Disney to try to offset some of the controversies a SotS home video release would inevitably create. If people started calling Disney racist by releasing SotS, Disney would then use the John Henry short as proof they are not racist. A shield from criticism, so to speak.

Apparently, Maya Angelou was asked to be the host for the SotS/John Henry release. While she liked John Henry she hated Song of the South, and threatened to take part in boycotts of the Disney company should Song of the South ever be released. Other Black people that Disney had sought out to host the Song of the South video release had a similar reaction.

WOW. I did NOT know that, Thank you for that bit of information. I had heard about the Maya Angelou part though.

I personally am not a big fan of SOTS- there are a few issues. Theres some nice songs (the splash trio), and the animated segments are really it for me admittedly.

I kind of wish Disney would have instead done something akin to The Universal film. (Using a screenshot in my pfp.) The Universal Adventures of Brer Rabbit film is actually really well done and the characters are portrayed tastefully with a majorly black cast. Though D.L Hugely's Brer Fox sounds a little similar to the Disney ones- not a complaint, just found it interesting. I will always stand by the fact that Disney totally COULD have done something that. New voices, new designs. In the era where remakes with different plots/different takes on things, especially.

Heck, he's featured in the Tristan Strong book series with John Henry which is published by Disney.

I enjoy the animated segments, but Splash and the Universal depictions are certainly better, imo.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Ironically enough, the John Henry short was originally planned to coincide with a VHS/DVD release of Song of the South in the late 90s/early 2000s. The idea was to have a host introduce Song of the South and try to place it in a historic context. Then, after SOTS finished playing, the host would introduce John Henry as a way of showing the progress that Disney had made in the way it depicts Black people. The John Henry short was really a tactic by Disney to try to offset some of the controversies a SotS home video release would inevitably create. If people started calling Disney racist by releasing SotS, Disney would then use the John Henry short as proof they are not racist. A shield from criticism, so to speak.

Apparently, Maya Angelou was asked to be the host for the SotS/John Henry release. While she liked John Henry she hated Song of the South, and threatened to take part in boycotts of the Disney company should Song of the South ever be released. Other Black people that Disney had sought out to host the Song of the South video release had a similar reaction.

What about Whoopi Goldberg? She's publicly stated that she wants to see SOTS, she in the past hosted disclaimer warnings for some WB releases, and of course has a strong association with Disney.

 

[josh2000]

Apparently, Maya Angelou was asked to be the host for the SotS/John Henry release. While she liked John Henry she hated Song of the South, and threatened to take part in boycotts of the Disney company should Song of the South ever be released. Other Black people that Disney had sought out to host the Song of the South video release had a similar reaction.

This is the kind of stuff that the average Disney fan doesn't know when they say 'why don't they just re-release it with a disclaimer?'. The last time they seriously tried, the reaction was overwhelmingly negative. There's no way that things have improved on that front.

All of this discussion and controversy will become irrelevant when Song of the South becomes public domain in 18 years. At that point the movie will be widely available on any website you can think of. There won't be anything Disney can do to stop it. Everyone can stop fighting over it and arguing.

 

[Ghost93]

This is the kind of stuff that the average Disney fan doesn't know when they say 'why don't they just re-release it with a disclaimer?'. The last time they seriously tried, the reaction was overwhelmingly negative. There's no way that things have improved on that front.

All of this discussion and controversy will become irrelevant when Song of the South becomes public domain in 18 years. At that point the movie will be widely available on any website you can think of. There won't be anything Disney can do to stop it. Everyone can stop fighting over it and arguing.

I think Disney could have potentially gotten away with a disclaimer had they released it about 20-30 years ago. There would have been controversy, but not enough controversy to significantly harm the company. Today, I don't think there is a way Song of the South could ever be officially released without doing severe damage to the brand. Even if a release done with extreme respect (with disclaimers, historical documentaries, etc.), the controversy beforehand would be overwhelming, with a lot of clickbaity "Disney releases racist film!" headlines.

For the record, I have seen SotS and I do think it's racist, but I also think that had Disney simply put in on VHS in the late 80s/early 90s like their other movies, it wouldn't be nearly as notorious or talked about. I think it would join the ranks of movies like Davy Crockett, Pollyanna and Treasure Island — movies fondly remembered by the Baby Boomers that the children of today would have zero interest in. With the exception of the animated segments, the movie is pretty bland and forgettable. It's become a much more interesting movie than it is because of the controversy surrounding it and because it is not "officially" available. The lack of availability has made the movie almost mythological in its status. It's the "forbidden" Disney film.

While the movie is already available to watch on the Internet Archive, I do think that once it enters the public domain it will quickly lose its status as the object of fascination from fans and detractors. People will see it for what it is: a dull and misguided film that is a product of a racist time period. The movie does have a few good elements —James Baskett's acting, the songs, and the impressive combination of live-action and animation. But those elements are not enough to redeem the film from being one of Walt's biggest mistakes.

 

[celluloid]

If Disney was really worried and felt more stuck with the ride for the last three decades, you also would not have seen the Brer characters in parades, nightime spectaculars and meet and greets up until recent Pre-covid19 times.

@Ghost93
I totally disagree with your last paragraph. It was the first film to put a dark skinned hand and white skinned hands in grasp out of joyful ending, from a studio as major as Disney. Groundbreaking things that good people were tired of worrying about. That alone makes Walt Disney and the film important and the legendary special effects and accolades are just a nice bonus in comparison.

 

[Brer Panther]

At that point the movie will be widely available on any website you can think of. There won't be anything Disney can do to stop it.

Making their quest to free themselves from Song of the South existing by retheming Splash Mountain a massive failure.

 

[skypilot2922]

If Disney was really worried and felt more stuck with the ride for the last three decades, you also would not have seen the Brer characters in parades, nightime spectaculars and meet and greets up until recent Pre-covid19 times.

@Ghost93
I totally disagree with your last paragraph. It was the first film to put a dark skinned hand and white skinned hand in grasp, from a studio as major as Disney. Groundbreaking things that good people were tired of worrying about. That alone makes Walt Disney and the film important and the legendary special effects and accolades are just a nice bonus in comparison.

You can’t rewrite history honestly FOR THE TIME black and white holding hands took guts to put on the screen. People need to look at art and literature in the context of the time in which they were created, Another was the first interracial kiss on Star Trek between Kirk and Uhura it was a huge scandal but a huge step forward in race relations