Thoughts on my trip so far in DLR

[flynnibus]

I can see how the locals might still hold a Superstar Limo grudge. I never got to ride that, but I think it actually makes the Monsters ride more amazing because it all fits so well and doesn't feel like it was a completely different ride at one point.

I have a theory that fans love the idea of dark rides more than they do actually like them - and nostalgia carries them more than the ride itself. I can't think of any other reason why all modern dark rides have failed to be accepted with the same types of tolerances. Only honey hunt gets universal praise and a lot of that comes from what the lps system adds to the experience.

So when a ride doesn't have a history of praise, nor a nostalgia within a person... There are no 'freebies' and people's true feelings come out. What wait someone will wait, and if they make sure they ride it every trip are far more telling about a persons true feeling I think. There is 'peer pressure' and 'what is cool to like' in the online fan community.

I think IASW is the gold standard for overlays, because it is Christmas but still Small World at the same time. As cool as Nightmare is, the Mansion basically stops being the Mansion during its overlay time. That's a little sad.

Agreed. And this trip really opened my eyes to the position of 'one time visitors...' And what they get from overlays. Not so much for me, but because I was trying to set the stage to let my wife explore dlr vs wdw - and the overlays made that difficult.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I have a theory that fans love the idea of dark rides more than they do actually like them - and nostalgia carries them more than the ride itself. I can't think of any other reason why all modern dark rides have failed to be accepted with the same types of tolerances. Only honey hunt gets universal praise and a lot of that comes from what the lps system adds to the experience.

So when a ride doesn't have a history of praise, nor a nostalgia within a person... There are no 'freebies' and people's true feelings come out. What wait someone will wait, and if they make sure they ride it every trip are far more telling about a persons true feeling I think. There is 'peer pressure' and 'what is cool to like' in the online fan community.

I don't know if it's that fans don't really like dark rides, but I totally and completely agree about the nostalgia factor. I think it's more something like Mermaid gets hyped up and we expect to mystified at 28 or 38 the same way we were when we first rode Peter Pan at 8. Call it "The Star Wars Theory" or "The Ewok Line" from How I Met Your Mother.

If you were born too soon, you just couldn't accept those cuddly little Ewoks as part of your Star Wars universe. I was born the same year RotJ came out, so to me, they've always been there. That was just as much Star Wars to me as Alec Guinness's Obi Wan. To kids born in the 90's, the prequels have always been there and they just accept them as "Star Wars". There are people that despise the Indy sequels (talking 2 &3 here) for "ruining" Raiders. I'm the right age where I just took them all in as a package. The next generation of Indy fans likes the first three, but hates Crystal Skull. There's the famous "nuked the fridge" complaint about Crystal Skull. Hello?!?! Did you not watch Temple of Doom where they jumped out of an airplane in an inflatable raft and rode it all the way down a freakin' mountain!?!

I seem to notice that in the rides that it's OK to like, there tends to be something unique to latch onto. The "cool" new rides are the ones that can give you that child-like feeling of amazement: 5th dimension in DHS Tower, the LPS and the bouncing room in Hunny Hunt, the amazing animatronics and the rockwork in Radiator Springs Racers. I would say Mermaid's "fault" is that it takes the tricks we've seen before and repackages them, instead of trying for something groundbreaking. Does the Racers storyline hold up to the same scrutiny that everyone heaps onto Mermaid? There are some holes there, I think, but you're too busy riding through the beautiful rockwork and gawking at the special effects to care. I suspect that as time marches on, the old-timers will see the faults and the kids who grow up with it will love it like any other dark ride.

 

[flynnibus]

Some more thoughts...

Disney must be thrilled with dca v2. It was full of people the entire time we were here.. Virtually all segments of the park, early AND late in the day. The days of ghosts and tumbleweed seem long gone.

The frequency of live entertainment in dca is surprisingly high. I mean, you basically can't walk from the pier to Hollywood without running into one of the live acts. IMO this is significantly different than Florida.

Photo pass photographers in dlr really suck at encouraging guests to get their pictures taken. They will happily just stand there quietly and never solicit people walking by.

The number of photo pass cms is way up since my last visit. A good thing was stationing multiple ones at popular places like the Christmas trees.

They don't do a good job of pitching the pp+ option in the rides.

We found ourselves spending a lot more time in dca than I expected.

Dlr has far more age 12 to 25 people than wdw wandering around. I can't say I felt swarmed by people acting as obnoxious 'locals' or people acting entitled. In fact I was surprised by the demographics that appeared like way more out of towners.... But the number of teens and young adults is very noticeable. I would say it looks like many people 'out grow' wdw and its not cool to go... While dlr bucks that for so many.

The amount of dlr merchandise people wear is actually mind boggling. You kind of feel like odd man out if you aren't wearing Mickey ears. The amount of dlr sweatshirts, jackets, shirts... It stands out. It's a merchandising juggernaut. In wdw, you see what I would say what looks much more like the 'tourist' outfit or 'concert tshirt'. At dlr, it felt like their normal outfits they might wear to school or at the mall.

The difference in crowd control stands out compared to wdw. Mostly in how frequently it is used and in so many areas. They are used to enforcing it before its a problem... So the high problem areas were pretty tolerable.

Now there were plenty of times I swore the next person who walked in front of me and then stopped was gonna get donkey punched... Or those who park their group right in the center of a walkway deserved to be steamrolled... But when it came to managing the paths and where people walk... They did a good job for me this trip. But I did stay away from nos during f!

Guest assistance cards needs to be addressed. It's not so much because of the overwhelming load I saw on this trip.. But because of the absurdity of the people using them.

I struggled this trip due to my first Disney trip after nearly two years of intense back issues including two surgeries. Add to that I could barely climb stairs due to my knee which got torqued. Yet I didn't get a gac and just sucked it up... With my main complaint being lack of areas where someone like me could find a place to sit to rest.... Especially places inside. But the number of families, teen couples, etc using gac... It's bad. I couldn't work at Disney because I could never face these people without calling them out.

That goes for line jumpers too. Not nearly as bad as last time, but still an issue at times.

 

[flynnibus]

Some wife observations. Understand this was her first visit to dlr and is a life long visitor to wdw. She likes Disney, but does not follow Disney happenings. She also is her own - she doesn't follow me like a puppy and freely disagrees with me.

I wanted to see what her take on dlr would be as she is actually a good model as a 'typical' guest. I let her discover things on her own and avoided biasing her by not pointing things out until afterwards, etc. I let her ask, etc. now I did prep her about 'similar but different' trying to make sure she would not get frustrated. That said, observations I took from her..
- Got the typical 'that's tiny!!' Comment about the castle
- She was put off by the proximity of all the attractions to each other. I asked to clarify and she said it wasn't that they were close, but that they seemed to be all twisted and tangled together. I think the mess of attraction entrances, external switchbacks, crossing over, etc is park of that. It seemed like things were on top of each other
- she really like space mountain
- she really was surprised by iasw fascade (iasw is her moms favorite)
- she did not have problems with the food offerings. Even had a burger at hungry bear. But also only had The expectation of at least as good as McDonalds for the burger
- she did pick up on the details about the bvs trolley
- she did notice the greater presence of Main Street vehicles
- she did not make any comments about dlr being cleaner oe better kept than wdw
- I think she could have cared less about nos
- she really liked the Aladdin musical. I told her that's why I think the other show like golden mickeys and batb, etc blow
- she did comment on food and merc pricing being so high (And tickets!)
- I don't think she was wow'd by Indy. She wanted more space mountain
- she thought their fireworks were a major letdown
- liked f! But didn't hear her say 'never again' for Dhs version.
- I don't think hm holiday impressed.. But I don't think she has seen nightmare either
- holiday decorations were nice, but I don't think she would request this time agin just for that


In summary, my take away from watching her is I don't think the mass public sees the major differences the fan community sees. Maybe with more back and forth maybe it would become more clear... But I didn't hear her swear off visiting wdw again for her next trip.

Which.. She'll be iN wdw for the princess race shortly...

I've yet to ask if she'd come out here again... But maybe on the plane tomorrow

 

[BryceM]

I'm extremely jealous of your trip to Disneyland Resort. This may sound bad, but I kind of want to visit Disney California Adventure more than Disneyland itself... Haha.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I'm extremely jealous of your trip to Disneyland Resort. This may sound bad, but I kind of want to visit Disney California Adventure more than Disneyland itself... Haha.

I'm pretty sure I spent more time in DCA than DL on my last trip... never saw that coming no matter how cool I thought BVS and Cars Land were gonna be.

 

[BryceM]

I'm pretty sure I spent more time in DCA than DL on my last trip... never saw that coming no matter how cool I thought BVS and Cars Land were gonna be.

It just looks like an amazing park, especially after the re-do. Before it, I would've cared less if I couldn't go, but now, it's one of the parks that I dream of one day visiting. Disneyland included.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

It just looks like an amazing park, especially after the re-do. Before it, I would've cared less if I couldn't go, but now, it's one of the parks that I dream of one day visiting. Disneyland included.

It's understandable. DCA has a pretty good list of things that you don't get to see at WDW right now: Aladdin, Monsters, Trolley, Grizzly River Rapids, Radiator Springs Racers, CA Screamin', Soarin' without a 200 minute wait...

 

[flynnibus]

Fwiw... Soarin and tsmm never really were under an hour and soarin was more like 75min most of my trip. Fp gone by noon or 2pm for marque attractions etc.

Waits like 40min for mr toad,etc. 20min was a short wait this trip and an hour was a 'good' wait on the marque attractions.

It's crazy that we hurried when we saw iasw under 30mins. That wait should normally be under 10-15

The only big attraction with low waits was pirates at about 20-25 during low periods.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Very interesting observations, especially the ears, sweatshirts and GAC comments. I agree with what you said about those three. The GAC issue is seriously irritating. I can't tell you how many people I saw abusing it when I worked in Fantasyland, ESPECIALLY for Peter Pan. Now, the majority of them really did have problems. I remember one time, this woman and her mom were trying to ride Pinocchio. The mom could barely walk and she very much struggled trying to get into the cart. I felt so terrible for her. She took so long that the ride broke down, and we had to evacuate everyone. The daughter was very embarrassed, but we let them ride by themselves. It took the mother forever again to get out of the cart when the ride was over. It was really bad. You do get some that really do need the extra assistance, but there are those that most definitely don't need squat and can very much stand in line. I'm sorry to hear you were in pain!

I'm glad to hear about the demographics during your trip. There's nothing worse than a guest that feels entitled to something in the park. You're absolutely right, regarding how normals guests wouldn't notice things.

Overall, did you enjoy yourselves?

 

[Californian Elitist]

I kind of want to visit Disney California Adventure more than Disneyland itself.

I'm pretty sure I spent more time in DCA than DL on my last trip.

You both should be punished for such actions!

 

[disney fan 13]

I have a theory that fans love the idea of dark rides more than they do actually like them - and nostalgia carries them more than the ride itself. I can't think of any other reason why all modern dark rides have failed to be accepted with the same types of tolerances. Only honey hunt gets universal praise and a lot of that comes from what the lps system adds to the experience.

So when a ride doesn't have a history of praise, nor a nostalgia within a person... There are no 'freebies' and people's true feelings come out. What wait someone will wait, and if they make sure they ride it every trip are far more telling about a persons true feeling I think. There is 'peer pressure' and 'what is cool to like' in the online fan community.

I believe you are right to a degree, but nobody likes Monsters and Mermaid cause they're cheap, plasticy, and should have been done decades ago. A good modern dark ride is Hunny hunt because it uses todays tech and tells a unique story. Which is how a dark ride should be done.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

You both should be punished for such actions!

But it has that "new park" smell!

 

[Californian Elitist]

But it has that "new park" smell!

I really do love DCA but it still doesn't match Disneyland, IMO.

 

[flynnibus]

I believe you are right to a degree, but nobody likes Monsters and Mermaid cause they're cheap, plasticy, and should have been done decades ago. A good modern dark ride is Hunny hunt because it uses todays tech and tells a unique story. Which is how a dark ride should be done.

So everything short of honey hunt is just garbage? And what do you tell the millions who have never been to TDL.. or ever heard of the Pooh attraction there, that like the classic dark rides, but do not like the modern ones?

Your post may represent a online fan's view of the world.. but doesn't match up to the reality of the millions of guests who don't have the same comparison to make.

 

[disney fan 13]

So everything short of honey hunt is just garbage? And what do you tell the millions who have never been to TDL.. or ever heard of the Pooh attraction there, that like the classic dark rides, but do not like the modern ones?

Your post may represent a online fan's view of the world.. but doesn't match up to the reality of the millions of guests who don't have the same comparison to make.[/quote

No, I believe that a good dark ride is something that uses the best of that times technology. the original dark rides did, HM did, PHH did, everything else from monsters to buzz did not.

 

[flynnibus]

Very interesting observations, especially the ears, sweatshirts and GAC comments. I agree with what you said about those three. The GAC issue is seriously irritating. I can't tell you how many people I saw abusing it when I worked in Fantasyland, ESPECIALLY for Peter Pan

The problem certainly seemed to show itself more in DL than DCA.. and the problem changed as the visitor demographic changed during the days too.

Same thing for strollers too. Strollers were very few Tues and Wed.. but Thur and Fri especially they bloomed.

ECVs were not nearly as bad and common as they are in Florida. I would even say they weren't even really an issue at all for us on this trip.

I'm sorry to hear you were in pain!

Yeah, unfortunately it was pretty impactful on my trip. I don't nearly have the endurance I used to.. probably a bit of that is age, but the back injury really takes a toll. By most days at about 2-3pm.. I really wish I could have taken a break at the hotel and come back later. But because I opt'd to stay at the convention center, the walk out and back would have been too much.. so I just pushed through. But it's also why I wished there were more places to take a break in the parks.

That became a bigger issue at night.. where due to it being so cold and us unprepared.. the wife really needed a place to take a break inside at times. There really is no places to take a break off your feet except in indoor attractions (like Lincoln) and the very few food places with indoor seating (like Pig Cafe).

I eventually bought a scarf and knit hat at Disney prices to counter.. but that was more our fault.

In hindsight.. parks in the cold aren't nearly as fun

Overall, did you enjoy yourselves?

Of course - we were together and carefree

 

[flynnibus]

Well.. we're home now. Some other random thoughts...

I like how single rider was done at RSR - you actually see a lot of the queue.. doesn't require wacky merge/crossovers.

It seems like the effect in Ramones still doesn't work. Rode RSR two times and went to each side once.. which was nice. The lizzy (? - the old lady) car in the indoor section wasn't working the second time. But the tipping cows were working which was nice. Overall RSR is a very complete attraction. Is it as thrilling as Space or Indy? No.. but it should have universal appeal and staying appeal IMO. The rcokwork is a great addition to the park and really is a great visual day and night.

We never did ride Maters or Lugi's.. even tho Lugi's dropped to 30min posted at one point. We just didn't have the energy/motivation for them when their waits were down.

The merchandise in Carsland was pretty good I thought. But they actually didn't have the woman's shirt in the size we were trying to buy for one of the kids (at Ramones or in Elias..).

We eventually went to World of Disney to try to find it there.. man what a mistake that was. Besides the chaos, which I really didn't need at the pain level I was in.. to no Cars Land stuff there :/

But in DtD.. people really liked my Vader Mickey stocking hat Had at least 3 people ask me where I got it.

We did end up riding the Death Wheel.. it wasn't so bad IMO. We really only had one time where you had the full speed swing. The second time, we were going slower. Neat for first timers.. not sure I'd wait for it in the future.

We did end up doing Mermaid lots of times due to availability.. probably rode it 4 times during the trip.

Rode the zepher on the first day.. honestly thought it better than SSSwings.

Never could convince the wife to try Grizzy River after our splash disaster on day one where we got SOAKED.

Saw Aladdin from the Balcony level.. wow that's steep. And the view really is mediocre. Tip: get there earlier so you don't get stuck up there We showed up 5mins before showtime as it was a last minute idea to get warm.. and they had already loaded the lower levels. The comedic timing of our second Genie wasn't as good as the first.. but was still a good show.

But looking back at DCA... there are still lots of things we ended up skipping even with free time.
- all of bugsland
- only did tower once
- never did animation or turtle talk
- king tritons
- jumping jellies
- goofy sky school
- grizzy
- redwook creek camp (tho we did walk through)
- disney jr
- muppets (was Prep & Landing for holiday)

That's a lot.. too much IMO. Makes me think there needs to be more refinement on the attractions themselves.

But even for a WDW vet.. the wife really liked CA Screamin. Still likes TSMM and Soarin. She thought WoC was nice.. but she wasn't blown away by it. I still think the projection part of WoC should be considered a failure - it just doesn't look good IMO.

In retrospect.. DCA has come a long way since I was there last in 2007. I liked it - I would have liked it a bunch more with maybe 2 more attractions and better lines.

 

[flynnibus]

On DL...

we only skipped
Astro Orbitor
Eo
Innoventions
Dumbo
Carosel
Peter Pan
tea cups
pixie hollow (and all M&Gs)
Columbia
TSI
Tarzan
Canoes and the kiddie coaster in toontown

The Columbia proved elusive. Even tho it was running earlier in the trip.. it wasn't running Thursday when we went to find it. Then on Friday, we walked up as it was docking.. only to see maintenance come out and they took it offline as busted. So we didn't get to ride.

It did show up Thursday night for F!, but pushed by the boat.. which I think led to no crocodile during F! :/

Speaking of F!, we lined up on the river right after fireworks, and were basically at the left edge of the right mist screen. A neat point is that is basically the point where they turn wide.. so the columbia and mark twain are only like 10-15ft from you as they go by. The wife was impressed by F! - but not enough to line up for it the next night

As much crap as people give WDW for it's fixed M&G locations... lines I saw in DLR were just as bad for characters. And the fixed locations like the princesses near iasw (remember, the faire is offline) had huge lines the entire time we were there. Be it Brave, the princesses, or the temporary M&G.. all were pretty slammed and none were available with a temporary or short wait.

I think the biggest disappointment of the trip were the Christmas fireworks. The wife even equated them to county fair! Ouch

Holiday decorations? I think I could do without and not miss them

Cast Members.. for the most part were great and what I would expect from Disney. There were 2-3 disappointments in that area, but nothing too bad. We did have one CM jump off the trolly, run off, and get back to us while still on the trolly.. to get a pin for my wife which was nice.

In hindsight - I think getting a hotel closer to the parks or relying on the shuttle would have been a good investment. I'm not as young as I used to be, and my back injury really contributed to agitation during the day. Unfortunately we never made it to closing on any night.. with most nights ending about 10:30 or 11pm.

The wife stated she didn't get the 'escapist' feel at DLR she gets at WDW. Which is funny.. because it wasn't until the 90s that she stayed onsite at all in WDW! Before I started taking her, she always stayed offsite. The level of upkeep didn't stand out to her.. and I bet that rings true for so many people.

Now last time we were in WDW... things weren't that bad show wise. I think overall the difference I would say is DLR seems to be better for show quality and volume of entertainment.... while general facilities upkeep is similar between the two. Things were generally good, but not flawless. But generally show effects were working with minor variations. Never did either stick out as OMG type stuff (tho the monorail peeling was kind of nasty)

Downtown Disney was crazy busy.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Lots of good stuff! I very much enjoyed your notes. Hope that back feels better soon!

BTW, couldn't agree more regarding the fireworks. I think they're very boring and just stale.