News The Walt Disney Company Board of Directors Extends Robert A. Iger’s Contract as CEO Through 2026

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Ms. Marvel?

Moonknight has subplots around persecution/ethic issues too

Ms Marvel didn’t connect with a huge audience but those that like it love it, Moonknight is a similar story, it wasn’t for everyone but those that like it love it.

Encanto, Coco, Black Panther… diverse stories can be universally appealing, anamaniac is correct that they have to feel authentic though. Authenticity won’t guarantee success but it should prevent the backlash.

 

[flynnibus]

They're still Marvel branded products that have to adhere to certain expectations and standards (and tie into other stories).

Ms Marvel didn’t connect with a huge audience but those that like it love it, Moonknight is a similar story, it wasn’t for everyone but those that like it love it.

I don't understand these responses. Animaniac said "They don't actually have a diverse array of stories that "reflect...human experience around the globe" -- I think both those examples not just include, but gravitate around plots that are specifically diverse vs your typical American Wonder Bread.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

"Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe."

I think a large problem with Disney's diversity efforts is that the company's idea of inclusion is just having PoC be in their key franchises (Star Wars, Marvel, Princesses). They don't actually have a diverse array of stories that "reflect...human experience around the globe".

Coco works because it's actually rooted in real culture and doesn't feel like a product that came off an assembly line.

Hit the nail on the head here. Tiana's Bayou whatever? Checking the box. Dia de los Muertos celebration at DCA? I think that's well done.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I don't understand these responses. Animaniac said "They don't actually have a diverse array of stories that "reflect...human experience around the globe" -- I think both those examples not just include, but gravitate around plots that are specifically diverse vs your typical American Wonder Bread.

I was pointing out that when they do a diverse story that is good the reception is also good, even if they aren’t big hits, when the story is bad, they just swap a character, or the story feels like they are simply checking boxes the response is usually bad.

Diverse stories can be incredibly popular, they just need to make sure the story is good.

 

[_caleb]

"Disney is committed to creating stories with inspirational and aspirational themes that reflect the rich diversity of the human experience around the globe."

I think a large problem with Disney's diversity efforts is that the company's idea of inclusion is just having PoC be in their key franchises (Star Wars, Marvel, Princesses). They don't actually have a diverse array of stories that "reflect...human experience around the globe".

To me, the Tiana's Bayou Adventure project contradicts this. Where Princess and the Frog may have been "PoC in a traditionally-produced film," Disney has worked really hard to tell the TBA story from a different perspective. But fans here have not received it well.

By their very nature, Frozen 4 and Toy Story 5 can't reflect every human experience. If you bring in new ideas, new talent and new stories (and actually let them express themselves), it's much easier to do so.

This is how they've gone about most projects that have diversity as a key component: it's not just "ethnicity/race swapping," but the entire project is done from the perspective of people who've traditionally been marginalized. So when the art direction, storytelling approaches, and narrative are rejected by fans here as being "bad," it's difficult not to see that as a rejection of all things "minority" and minority people themselves.

Like people who've lived on a diet of American food seeing (not even tasting) a plate of Indian food and complaining about how terrible it obviously is because it doesn't look like the hamburgers they love.

Coco works because it's actually rooted in real culture and doesn't feel like a product that came off an assembly line.

I agree. I think Coco is one of the best films they've ever done!

For all of Strange World's faults, it was at least something different and added to the diversity of content that Disney under Iger has severely been lacking. If you had more types of movies and shows altogether, it wouldn't be so important for each project to be literally inclusive of every demographic marketing deems important.

I completely agree. If it's diversity (as in product diversity) across the landscape, the pressure for each individual project to cater to a broad variety of audiences would be lessened. I think a "something for everyone" attitude is better for Disney's business than an "everything for everyone" or "each thing for one specific audience."

 

[_caleb]

Hit the nail on the head here. Tiana's Bayou whatever? Checking the box. Dia de los Muertos celebration at DCA? I think that's well done.

I get that this is your perspective. But do you think Charita Carter's team sees TBA as a box-checking project? I just don't think we're all the best arbiters to determine what's "box checking" and what's "authentic" when it comes to culture and diversity in Disney projects.

I know, someone is going to say, "box-checking projects are the ones that don't make money." I just think there's way more to it than that.

 

[el_super]

Adding some figures that I found while reading another article. These numbers are from June of 2023, which was after the Elon Musk takeover of Twitter:

Disney gained 44,742 new Twitter followers in the 30 days up to June 21, bringing its total to almost 10.3 million, according to the social media statistics website Social Blade.​

​

It witnessed a further boost on Instagram, where Disney gained 278,550 followers in the same amount of time. Disney's official Instagram account now has 37,975,982 followers, making it the 199th most followed account on the social media platform.​

How Disney's popularity is faring amid Ron DeSantis battle

The Mickey Mouse corporation and the Florida governor have been entangled in a legal war for more than a year.

www.newsweek.com

Coco works because it's actually rooted in real culture and doesn't feel like a product that came off an assembly line.

Coco is a great film, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Having Mexican representation in a film is great for diversity, but when it's a film about a Mexican holiday/culture, is it really covering inclusion in other areas? You can't pigeonhole entire cultures and groups of people into being in films that are ONLY about those cultures and groups. It just perpetuates this weird idea of separate but equal entertainment.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was pointing out that when they do a diverse story that is good the reception is also good, even if they aren’t big hits, when the story is bad, they just swap a character, or the story feels like they are simply checking boxes the response is usually bad.

Diverse stories can be incredibly popular, they just need to make sure the story is good.

Black Panther was an incredible
Movie in my opinion. Moana is not…but does a
Great job of delivering Disneys standard expectation with cultural highlights

Good movies sell…even to evil guys that look like me

I get that this is your perspective. But do you think Charita Carter's team sees TBA as a box-checking project? I just don't think we're all the best arbiters to determine what's "box checking" and what's "authentic" when it comes to culture and diversity in Disney projects.

I know, someone is going to say, "box-checking projects are the ones that don't make money." I just think there's way more to it than that.

Of course that’s box checking…putting only AA Princess over “evil” slave movie (that wasn’t really that at all…)

And bear in mind that PATF was only marginal in its initial run…it ain’t beauty and the beast. I will give them credit for sticking with it…but it would be a bolder statement to do new characters and movies…which they have sorta branched out to…but non-committal

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Actually, what Caleb is saying is true. I mentioned this on another thread, but I work for another streamer and yes, all the data we get (focus groups, test screening responses, early responses on script reads, etc.) all point to the desire for more representation on screen from audiences. There's also a plethora of data available to us that indicates how Black and Latino audiences are the greatest growth opportunity in viewership as they're the last audience of value that can still be migrated from cable/broadcast to streaming. Despite the press, it's still an acquisition/SOV game we're playing here, and so the (data-supported) story here is in order to grow SOV, develop content that appeals to DEI targets.

The key here though - and something Disney overstepped on - is the content must still be broadly appealing to be successful. And the key to that success is simply telling a good story. Walden's note that the well-written script was thrown out simply because it relied on the supporting neighbor being Black trope I think is valid, but it makes me question what about the story made it necessary for the main character to be white and the supporting cast Black? Why did that have to be the case in the first place? Makes me question if "well-written" doesn't equate to good in this case, frankly.

I think to say the approach isn't working is disingenuous. Take Strange World. Had the political climate been not so polarized, had the word "woke" not been coded and weaponized to refer to anything non-White, had Hollywood and Disney not hung their hat on the main character's sexuality, would the movie have done well?

When DEI audiences say they want representation, they don't mean simply check a box.

Great post…

Disney seem to be making the “new Coke” mistake. They have data that says “some people want a sweeter drink” but instead of adding a new sweeter soda to the lineup (to add those people as customers) they are getting rid of the old successful formula that was already #1.

They could have added new movies that would have captured that audience but they decided to reinvent the wheel instead.

 

[el_super]

They could have added new movies that would have captured that audience but they decided to reinvent the wheel instead.

Separate but equal is not inclusive.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Separate but equal is not inclusive.

What does that have to do with my post?

Is Black Panther separate but equal?
How about Encanto? Coco?

Making good diverse movies adds to the customer base, swapping the main character in an existing movie just drives a lot of them away.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Separate but equal is not inclusive.

More options is always better for everyone.

What a silly view

And in the case of things like marvel…it allows crossovers that bring the demographically different audiences closer together

That’s a good thing.

 

[Lilofan]

Separate but equal is not inclusive.

I thought the Jim Crow backward way of thinking was over 60 years ago.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Of course there's more to consider. Haven't we gone round and round with this re: Star Wars? You seem to think that your audience is the audience. I'm telling you, those days are over.

Oh you’re misinterpreting me on Star Wars

I don’t care about my audience at all…
I just think taking that franchise and making absolute flaming crap AFTER Lucas laid the template to not screw up during the prequels…

You literally can’t be more stupid than what they did

 

[denyuntilcaught]

I get that this is your perspective. But do you think Charita Carter's team sees TBA as a box-checking project? I just don't think we're all the best arbiters to determine what's "box checking" and what's "authentic" when it comes to culture and diversity in Disney projects.

That's fair, I do agree with you. I think the timing of when TBA was announced was what made me believe it was more of a box-checking, knee jerk reaction to what was happening at the time, versus an earnest effort.

To me, the Tiana's Bayou Adventure project contradicts this. Where Princess and the Frog may have been "PoC in a traditionally-produced film," Disney has worked really hard to tell the TBA story from a different perspective. But fans here have not received it well.

Okay this is a point that I think is worth discussing more, and I'm going to openly contradict my own POV stated earlier regarding TBA being a check-the-box effort, as I do completely agree that a lot of detail has been paid to tell a differentiated story for TBA. Question is though: is it a good story? My two cents is that while it really does try to tell a story authentic to the Black experience (self-made, Black excellence, etc.) it is overly complex - which is a habit WDI has gotten into lately.

However, my qualm is saying that fans have not received it well. Disney fans are not a monolithic group, and I think in certain circumstances, Disney should pay more attention to the behaviors and preferences of the broader buying audience, not just Disney fans. Disney Park fandom is one that skews overwhelmingly white, that's fact. And so it comes to no surprise to me that the fandom reaction to TBA will ignore the efforts it's taking to appeal to a non-white audience, which is the MO of the redo in the first place.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Great post…

Disney seem to be making the “new Coke” mistake. They have data that says “some people want a sweeter drink” but instead of adding a new sweeter soda to the lineup (to add those people as customers) they are getting rid of the old successful formula that was already #1.

They could have added new movies that would have captured that audience but they decided to reinvent the wheel instead.

So what you're saying is... in the case of Star Wars, as an example - Instead of writing stories that would appeal to the audience that spent $100 billion on the franchise over 40 years, they focused instead on writing stories that would appeal to the audience that barely knew about it and spent about $28.43 on it lifetime so they could try and "capture" that audience instead?

FWIW - Go do a quick search with your search engine of choice about "Star Wars feminism" and look at the articles that pop up from around the time TFA was coming out. There were deliberate decisions made to move in the direction they moved. Maybe the people Kathleen Kennedy hired to staff the Lucasfilm Story Group had something to do with it...

 

[el_super]

Is Black Panther separate but equal?

In a way, yes. I see this as saying "it's ok if they have their films over there... as long as they don't come in contact with my stories and films over here." Separate stories ARE important, but that doesn't negate the need to have inclusive stories that shows proper representation amongst many groups together.

There's nothing wrong with swapping characters for different actors or different takes. It's been happening in story telling since time immemorial.

 

[el_super]

Instead of writing stories that would appeal to the audience that spent $100 billion on the franchise over 40 years, they focused instead on writing stories that would appeal to the audience that barely knew

What do you think should happen when the audience that spent 40+ years on the franchise dies out? Should the franchise just die out with them?

 

[_caleb]

Great post…

Disney seem to be making the “new Coke” mistake. They have data that says “some people want a sweeter drink” but instead of adding a new sweeter soda to the lineup (to add those people as customers) they are getting rid of the old successful formula that was already #1.

They could have added new movies that would have captured that audience but they decided to reinvent the wheel instead.

I'm not sure what's happening here but I think we might be agreeing?

Only minor thing to add: I'm not sure they've abruptly stopped selling the original formula (keeping with your analogy), they've just been selling various mixtures of the old and new, and fans of the old are frustrated that they never know which one they're going to get.

From Disney's perspective, I think they expected they would bring audiences along through the transition and that audiences would have lots of "formulas" to choose from. But fans of the classic formula aren't having it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

In a way, yes. I see this as saying "it's ok if they have their films over there... as long as they don't come in contact with my stories and films over here." Separate stories ARE important, but that doesn't negate the need to have inclusive stories that shows proper representation amongst many groups together.

But making the Black Panther movie did just that, it added black characters into the bigger MCU in a way that felt perfectly natural and that added depth to the story. The characters established in the Black Panther were in most the MCU movies made after it, and it made perfect sense why they were in them.

Had they just race swapped Robert Downey Jr with Will Smith they could have added diversity but it wouldn’t have added anything to the story and likely would have driven a lot of people away.

Diversity done well not only adds representation but more importantly adds depth to the stories, but it needs to make sense, if it doesn’t it just feels like pandering.