The Tipping Point For Change

[Raineman]

I've been a member here for 6 years, and there has always been the idea (or hope) that, if enough people become dissatisfied with their WDW trips and stop visiting, that the loss in revenue would force Disney to try and figure out why people don't want to come back, and use that info to make changes to entice those people to come back and to make the WDW experience better for everyone. At this point, that tipping point, wherever it might be, keeps getting further and further away, to the point that I wonder if it will ever come into play. For every 10 people that say "I'm done with WDW-costs too much, too busy, low food quality, etc", there seems to be 40 people who can't stop snorting the pixie dust and will say "I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited! Just booked my 10th trip this year! Magic, magic, magic! " Even if that mythical tipping point was reached, would positive change even be an option for Disney, instead of yet another "Well, let's just cut more operating costs, reduce hours and what we offer, and charge the addicts more-they'll never stop coming."

 

[MorphinePrince]

there seems to be 40 people who can't stop snorting the pixie dust and will say "I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited! Just booked my 10th trip this year! Magic, magic, magic! "

You act like that's a bad thing. The majority of people are not wrapped up in cynical and irrational hatred of things beyond their control. We just returned from a two week trip, our first since before covid, and had an absolute ball. Yea there are things we don't like happening with the parks and but it's frankly childish to say "oh em gee, we're never going back because Disney didn't do [insert complaint] or is taking away [insert complaint]." Even with the looming paid FastPass options, that in itself will likely not sway our decision to not visit Disney World; we'll find something else to enjoy at the resort. For our family there will never be a tipping point.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I am often quite cynical of Disney for many of their decisions. We all rant and rave on and off. Things we don't like, love or even hate surface as part of our cynicism. That said, there is one thing that we all tend to overlook because we have been so often over many decades. We remember, or at least I do, a time when it cost around $15 for a long day in two parks (even less in some cases) so the figure of a C note for a day is overwhelming. We saw so many great dark rides and other things that were mind boggling that we have become jaded and in some cases saddened by thing that we once loved that are now gone and replacement attractions we perceive as lower quality from the early days that we overlook the fact that newbie's still see the place as awesome. If we allow ourselves, so do we, but a lot of the "first time" magic has mellowed out for us.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I'm one who still gets excited about a trip back. I dont personally feel Disney is so bad that I am ready to pack it in. I'm not saying that day couldnt come, but for the present time I get enough out of the things Disney is delivering on and my family is still enjoying our trip thoroughly. I still get enough value for me and havent felt I'm being taken advantage of. Everyone is different in how they see this issue.
I cant see Disney reaching that mythical tipping point unless theres a calamity of some sorts that stops travel or the economy crashes and theres no financial stability and people stop all luxury spending. There will always be enough first timers who want to go to WDW and there will always be return visitors and locals who desire a trip back. I just cant see enough continued stoppage of WDW visitors to affect Disneys path. As long as they build new and exciting attractions it will keep the interest high.
I think the best chances of a positive change happening that everyone desires would come if and when theres a major change of the upper level personnel. Replacing them with those who are true Disney lovers who want to go back to Walts business image of what should be delivered to guests ....and whats the chances of that happening?

 

[Weather_Lady]

I think the nature of this board tends to attract a greater proportion of "pixie dusters" than may actually exist in the repeat-visitor fan base. Many who become wholly disenchanted with WDW not only stop going, but stop posting in forums like this one, so their viewpoint isn't necessarily represented.

I think the majority of people here are someplace in the middle. We see the decline but still find something worthwhile or even wonderful, so we still go to WDW, but some of us are paring down the scale of those trips, going less frequently, and even venturing off to engage in passionate daliances with other, non-Disney destinations in Orlando and elsewhere. We may not have divorced Disney, but we're... well, on a bit of a break.

 

[Raineman]

I think the nature of this board tends to attract a greater proportion of "pixie dusters" than may actually exist in the repeat-visitor fan base. Many who become wholly disenchanted with WDW not only stop going, but stop posting in forums like this one, so their viewpoint isn't necessarily represented.

I think the majority of people here are someplace in the middle. We see the decline but still find something worthwhile, so we may still go to WDW, but we're paring down the scale of those trips, going less frequently, and even venturing off to engage in passionate daliances with other, non-Disney destinations in Orlando and elsewhere. We may not have divorced Disney yet, but we're... well, on a bit of a break.

View attachment 573997

I am in the same boat as you, but, if things do keep changing, especially if any of the paid FP/standby pass rumours are true, that may be it for me. We are planning on a trip sometime next year, but if we start feeling like it is not that enjoyable for us anymore, then we will stop visiting, at least for a while. We really enjoy other vacations, like all-inclusive Caribbean beach resorts, or even renting a nice vacation home outside of Orlando and chilling out around the pool and visiting other points of interest around Central Florida, so that may be the options for us instead of WDW.

 

[Weather_Lady]

I am in the same boat as you, but, if things do keep changing, especially if any of the paid FP/standby pass rumours are true, that may be it for me. We are planning on a trip sometime next year, but if we start feeling like it is not that enjoyable for us anymore, then we will stop visiting, at least for a while. We really enjoy other vacations, like all-inclusive Caribbean beach resorts, or even renting a nice vacation home outside of Orlando and chilling out around the pool and visiting other points of interest around Central Florida, so that may be the options for us instead of WDW.

Ditto for us!

 

[Heppenheimer]

I don't go often enough to make a difference either way for Disney. Except for two years when I was cursed to live in neighboring Georgia, I've never lived close enough (including during childhood) where trips were feasible or desirable any more often than every few years. And most of the people I've known who are in the same boat (people who like Disney resorts but don't live for them) ,are in the same boat. I've only ever known less than a handful of people who visit more often.

So, speaking for the more casual fans who live too far away to make Disney trips anything other than a once every few years event, no, nothing will probably change for us unless the cost simply becomes unaffordable. As I've written on another thread, the breaking point for me becomes when I can't fit a trip within my usual annual vacation budget without cashing in investments or accruing credit card debt.

Oh, but maybe if paid Fastpass becomes a reality, then I'm out.

 

[SteveAZee]

It seems like Disney cuts back on things as a matter of course. I think it's generally the nature of things when you have a monopoly. If revenue is up, then you can cut back on things and make more money. If revenue is down, you have a reason to cut back on things to preserve profit. I think that the only incentive Disney has to improve things is competition.. the NEED to invest in things because, long term, they may lose market share to their competitor (assume Universal) and it's hard to regain customers once you've lost them.

LOL, so the best way to improve Disney is to go to Universal.

 

[MorphinePrince]

even venturing off to engage in passionate daliances with other, non-Disney destinations in Orlando and elsewhere.

I finally got my parents to do something besides WDW when they came in 2019. I spent a few days showing them around hidden gems in Orlando, eating at some tasty locales, and we were able to sneak off to the beach for a few days. Since we are DVC, the resorts are slowly becoming a "home base" for us while we explore other things.

 

[Beacon Joe]

Well we're DVC so we're kind of stuck, but I know suddenly see the appeal of why 50% of the time my parents stay at Shades of Green or Bonnet Creek and just lounge around the resorts and Disney Springs and poke around Orlando without setting foot in any of the Disney parks.

From the amount of people who stuck it out and waited in the lines this week, it looks to me like there's still plenty of people who will continue to pay for a bad experience in the parks.

 

[aliceismad]

I think if there is a tipping point that would cause a massive change in the operational direction of WDW, covid delayed it significantly. People are so happy just to be out again, traveling, having fun, spending money, and businesses (not just Disney) are offering tweaked, and sometimes lesser, products.

 

[horizons82]

I am very sympathetic to the points made by the OP.

In fact, I had been obsessed with going to the parks as I have a family member who has been working there for decades. I used to go a LOT as a kid, still went as an adult, and even bought annual passes for my wife and I a few years ago, re-introducing her to how much fun going to the WDW parks was, as she had only been once or twice when she was young.

I (and later my wife) have absolutely amazing memories of some our visits, but unfortunately these memories are all from the past as going became less and less enjoyable.

The "tipping point" for us was a few years ago, shortly after our passes expired, when crowds and wait times seemed to get worse, the attitudes and actions of people became worse, visits required more and more advanced planning, and the overall experience became lackluster and no longer worth it...to us. It was at that time that instead of simply enjoying our times at WDW we found ourselves longing for the way it used to be (in many ways).

For a while we tried to go back to enjoy ourselves, even with muted expectations, but we would still end up deflated. Even the sense of nostalgia was no longer enough to entice us back because so much had changed that the connection to what were (IMHO) better times, had faded beyond recognition.

As far as the point of this thread however, I think people all have their own tipping points, and people have all kinds of different perceptions of what they enjoy and get from the parks, and their perception of "value".

But I appreciate others like me, who feel as I do about how the parks used to be experienced (especially when it comes to EPCOT), but I would also add that there are always new visitors and younger people coming to WDW, and the experiences they are having as new visitors with how things currently are IS their norm, so they are not having to compare it to the past, and I am sort of jealous of being able to look at it from that sort of fresh viewpoint.

 

[The Colonel]

Disney used to be in the business of entertainment, lodging, dining, recreation, etc. And they were very good at it. But times have changed. All of their energy and imagination is now invested in ways to cut costs, and raise revenues. That is the business they are in. They study this endlessly and study the guest reaction to their moves. They are now highly proficient at incrementally raising prices and cutting costs while straddling the line of what the customer will accept. So the short answer is, they will never hit the tipping point. All their efforts are aimed at finding that tipping point and going right up to it.

 

[Cadbury]

Changes or no changes, people will keep on going to WDW regardless as they always have been since 1971.

 

[DfromATX]

I don't believe anything Disney does or doesn't do will prevent people from going. For all the people that stop going, there will be a new crop that goes. Am I a little miffed about some things? Sure, but I still love it. (I even wrote them a heart-felt letter about that.) Last February, my husband and I went for the first time without our kids (cause they're grown now) and we had so much fun! So, I suspect he and I will continue to go. Our kids were a little jealous, but we told them they can come too if they pitch in.

 

[Splashin' Ryan]

I've been a member here for 6 years, and there has always been the idea (or hope) that, if enough people become dissatisfied with their WDW trips and stop visiting, that the loss in revenue would force Disney to try and figure out why people don't want to come back, and use that info to make changes to entice those people to come back and to make the WDW experience better for everyone. At this point, that tipping point, wherever it might be, keeps getting further and further away, to the point that I wonder if it will ever come into play. For every 10 people that say "I'm done with WDW-costs too much, too busy, low food quality, etc", there seems to be 40 people who can't stop snorting the pixie dust and will say "I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited! Just booked my 10th trip this year! Magic, magic, magic! " Even if that mythical tipping point was reached, would positive change even be an option for Disney, instead of yet another "Well, let's just cut more operating costs, reduce hours and what we offer, and charge the addicts more-they'll never stop coming."

You are right. Most new offerings in the parks are geared towards those who know Disney shows, movies, etc, and not the parks themselves. This then brings in people who had absolutely no idea how the parks looked or operated years or decades ago which allows Disney to subtlety stop making original attractions, distort sightlines, reduce long-running entertainment, whatever it is that you want to point out.

The issue doesn't lie within bad executive decisions, it's the unknowing guests who accept and even celebrate their decisions that in turn encourage more bad ideas.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think the nature of this board tends to attract a greater proportion of "pixie dusters" than may actually exist in the repeat-visitor fan base.

I would say the boards also tend to attract a greater proportion of “doom and gloomers”. The overall tone here skews negative.

 

[Weather_Lady]

I would say the boards also tend to attract a greater proportion of “doom and gloomers”. The overall tone here skews negative.

It does... although I don't remember it being that way when I started lurking here over 10 years ago. I wonder, am I just remembering it as a more positive place than it was, or were people simply happier here 10 years ago because Disney was doing a better job then?

 

[LittleBuford]

It does... although I don't remember it being that way when I started lurking here over 10 years ago. I wonder, am I just remembering it as a more positive place than it was, or were people simply happier here 10 years ago because Disney was doing a better job then?

I started lurking here in 2017 and was immediately struck by the negativity, but maybe things weren't quite so bleak when you arrived.