The "Technology Moves Too Fast" Argument

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I have read many times over the years (and extremely frequently of late) that technological advancement moves at a pace too fast for the original concept of Future World to work. I would like to present a rebuttal.

Disclaimer: At no point will I argue that Future World could have been kept current while spending $0. At no point will I argue that Future World could be designed in anyway to make it a "set it and forget it" proposition. At no point will I argue that pavilions should never be changed/rebuilt/re-themed etc., I only argue that keeping them current is not impossible. With (at least some of) the potential straw-men out of he way...

General Premise: Many of the pavilions were designed in such a way that there was a strong focus on history (knowing where you've been helps you to know where you're going) that would rarely need to be tweaked. In addition, the main "future" scenes of many pavilions still have not been realized. While the rides/movies would need to be updated, the general theme is almost timeless. In addition, the rate of monumental change (while more rapid than in the past) is hardly break-neck.

Pavilion by Pavilion Analysis

Spaceship Earth/Communicore/Innoventions:
I have lumped these together for ease, and also because there has actually been at least limited success in the attempts to keep them current. Spaceship Earth is primarily a historical review, so it has aged rather well. While it can be argued that the updates have had varying value, they have managed to keep the displays of technology more or less up to date. This has been somewhat simplified because the attraction was designed so that most of the ride is a look back, and the exit into the Communicore/Innoventions plaza area was designed to be the showcase of more cutting-edge stuff.

It is that area that ages very quickly and must be carefully curated to ensure it stays relevant. Most would agree that this has mostly been a failure. However, the failure has not been due to impossibility. Every year, CES and other expos do exactly what Innoventions was built to do, so the concept can succeed. Why we haven't seen demonstrations of automated drones delivering packages, 3D printing and other technological showcasing is not because it can't be done.

Universe of Energy: This one is structurally one of the easiest to have kept current. It was built as a set of movies book-ending a large diorama. Until fossil fuels cease to play a large role in energy production, the dinosaurs will not be out of date. Updating movies to reflect technological advancements in energy (which moves significantly slower then, say, communication) is far from impossible.

Wonders of Life: While a little late to the game, this pavilion was incredibly modular. Almost all of the exhibits/movies could easily be swapped out. The simulator could be changed as well. Cranium Command would probably be the most difficult to update, but even that is a timeless concept, so it wouldn't have to be a complete rebuild. If anything, we are more concerned about "health" now than when it opened.

Horizons: Once again, this attraction began with a look back, which isn't going to need much refreshing. We still haven't achieved anything close to Brava Centauri or Sea Castle. An argument could be made that we have made some significant advances in desert agriculture, but still not to the level of automation depicted in Mesa Verde. Admittedly, micro-processors (as an amazing feat as it is) are not cutting-edge enough that they need to be marveled at on an OMNIMAX, but again, it's just a movie. The futures presented in Horizons have not been eclipsed, even with our rapid advancement.

World of Motion: This ride was almost entirely a history lesson. The primary technological showcasing came during the post-show. The post-shows were designed to be swapped out with different concept cars and what not. Even decades later, manufacturing robots are still evolving and many people haven't seen them up close, so you could make an argument that some of the old parts could even be kept and just slightly updated. That is all far from impossible.

Imagination: Nothing should need to be said about this. Imagination is the root of all advancement and is inherently timeless. If we were to ride the original today, we might expect better animatronics or lighting, but thematically, nothing would be dated. People still daydream about theater, science, nature, etc.

The Land: This pavilion is probably the closest to its original state as any of them and has again aged fairly well. The boat ride just needs updated spiels to match updates to the greenhouse and lab and it will stay current indefinitely. Changing out the movie showing in the theater is again not an impossible task.

The Living Seas: I'm not sure what could be considered dated about the concept of a seabase, we still don't have them. Aside from stating that we've spent more time on the moon than at the extreme depths of the ocean (which may still be true, I don't know) I don't think anything about ocean technology has outpaced the presentation of the pavilion. Obviously there is room for updates about cool discoveries and new species (exactly what the module design of the seabase is suited for) and those things would be awesome, but I don't think that technology has left the Living Seas concept in the dust.

Conclusion: Overall, the pavilions seem designed to be able to handle technological advancement very well. The primary rides of each pavilion are mostly history lessons and serve to set the mood for further exploration of the topic. That further exploration is closer to where the attraction meets current technology, but almost exclusively took place in post-shows and side attractions within pavilions. The futures displayed have, for the most part, still not been achieved. The technology on display is about huge leaps forward and important milestones. Technology moves fast, but not that fast. The internet certainly needs to be included in an attraction about communication, but the internet continuing to get faster doesn't really reach the same level as its creation.

Pavilions need to be updated to reflect groundbreaking technologies, not the update of the latest iPhone. Keeping the original pavilion designs on pace with true milestones would not have been impossible.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I have read many times over the years (and extremely frequently of late) that technological advancement moves at a pace too fast for the original concept of Future World to work. I would like to present a rebuttal.
Excellent, a great attempt to rebutt a central criticism of EPCOT (although I am not convinced this criticism ultimately has much to do with the reasons for EPCOT's premature destruction in the late 90s)

The name Future World is deceptive, because FW does not immerse the guest in a future world, it positions the guest in today's world. It merely presents an overview of some important forces and resources that shape our current world, and seeks to inspire the guest to understand them, with a goal to better the future.

Like you say, there was very little directly futuristic about it. FW didn't deal with predictions, and where it did, in Horizons, it did so with the master of stroke of opening with the statement that predictions never come to pass.

What was outdated, was that EPCOT was a product of modernity. 'Man's progressive march into a great, glorious future'. This died in our the postmodern age.
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
I think the biggest problem with Sea Base Alpha currently is that the storyline is totally non-existent. You ride in a shell...watch some really cool cartoon projections and then bam-a-lam you are standing in an aquarium-ish sort of thing walking around with zero back story or reasoning. The continuity of it was totally lost. Updating this pavilion would be fairly easy by going back and rekindling some sort of story that works instead of a lazy overlay.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
What was outdated, was that EPCOT was a product of modernity. 'Man's progressive march into a great, glorious future'. This died in our the postmodern age.

Do you think that public's appetite for such an optimistic view is completely gone? Or is it merely that the current social climate has no interest in putting forward such a view?
 

Variable

Well-Known Member
We haven't made it to Mars yet so that attraction is still about the future. Test Track is about concept cars who's very nature is the future, so that attraction still makes sense.

I have not looked at Mars lately. Is it current? Does it reflect the current state of the technology, propulsion, VASIMR drives, etc? Solar sails, etc? Does it include publicly presented proposals and concept art by SpaceX? Does it mention long duration on-Earth habitat experiments conducted the last couple of years? I don't know. I want to know, how current and visionary is it exactly? When was the last time the content was updated to reflect man's growing understanding of space travel?

Is there any authority behind the exhibit or is it just nameless, citation-less, sort of 'imagining' done by a good copy writer who's borrowed from Heinlen, Bova, etc?
 

bethymouse

Well-Known Member
Mission Space still needs updating somehow. Just like Ellen, Gary Sinise IMHO is getting old, so to speak!;) Technology does move too fast! You replace one new idea, and then less than a year later there's a new idea to replace it ( Apple products especially and cell phones!):eek:
 

Mickey5150

Well-Known Member
I have not looked at Mars lately. Is it current? Does it reflect the current state of the technology, propulsion, VASIMR drives, etc? Solar sails, etc? Does it include publicly presented proposals and concept art by SpaceX? Does it mention long duration on-Earth habitat experiments conducted the last couple of years? I don't know. I want to know, how current and visionary is it exactly? When was the last time the content was updated to reflect man's growing understanding of space travel?

Is there any authority behind the exhibit or is it just nameless, citation-less, sort of 'imagining' done by a good copy writer who's borrowed from Heinlen, Bova, etc?
Wow, relax, I was only stating that since we have yet to put a person on Mars and we are working towards that goal, then Mission Space is still an attraction about the future.
 

Mickey5150

Well-Known Member
The best thing for Innoventions would be if Disney could create their own annual consumers electronic show either at it's own convention centers or Orlando's and then after that show the companies involved could move their products into Innoventions for the year. Is it perfect, no, but it does find a way to fill up some space and it is showing "future" products. Throw in the chance for Samsung to sell smart devices to consumers from all over the world and it would basically pay for itself.
 

Variable

Well-Known Member
Wow, relax, I was only stating that since we have yet to put a person on Mars and we are working towards that goal, then Mission Space is still an attraction about the future.

Wow relax yourself. If a future vision presented in an attraction has been superseded by reality, the attractions vision is at best hoaky and quaint, and at worst useless.

You didn't answer my questions. But that's ok, the point might be that your simple reply "we haven't gotten there yet therefore it's still future" speaks volumes of what guests can be satisfied with these days.

Demand more.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Wow relax yourself. If a future vision presented in an attraction has been superseded by reality, the attractions vision is at best hoaky and quaint, and at worst useless.

You didn't answer my questions. But that's ok, the point might be that your simple reply "we haven't gotten there yet therefore it's still future" speaks volumes of what guests can be satisfied with these days.

Demand more.
And be told, if you don't like it stay home. There are millions out there that will show up. You demand only what you can control and only what is feasible. Anything else is greeted by a room full of laughter. Where do you think all this power is coming from. After you have spent your money, you have no power at all. Perhaps your mommy told you that you are important enough to be listened to, unfortunately, the rest of the world didn't give birth to you, so their reaction is... Meh!
 

Variable

Well-Known Member
And be told, if you don't like it stay home. There are millions out there that will show up. You demand only what you can control and only what is feasible. Anything else is greeted by a room full of laughter. Where do you think all this power is coming from. After you have spent your money, you have no power at all. Perhaps your mommy told you that you are important enough to be listened to, unfortunately, the rest of the world didn't give birth to you, so their reaction is... Meh!

Yep. Could not agree more.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Do you think that public's appetite for such an optimistic view is completely gone? Or is it merely that the current social climate has no interest in putting forward such a view?
Why yes, there is most certainly an appetite to make the world a better place. Ecology, sustainable development, and social and animal rights are currently as hott as my curvy buttcheeks in a tight beach outfit.

What is outdated is the old EPCOT modernist idea of 'man' marching towards a utopian future, in a linear progression from the dawn of time towards an idealised future, an unspecified but utopian place. A utopia visualised as CenterCore in WoM, a progressive march recapitulated in Horizons' magnificent mural The Prologue and the Promise (a title which reflects the journey one makes in WoM, Horizons, and SSE), an ascent of man brought to literal form in SSE, from the first faint glimmer of light of our caveman ancestor to our space age fulfillment of man's destiny.
Disney's utopian ideal was humane, a far cry from the totalitarian and socialist ideals of the same source, and in many ways an answer to them. But like the others it belongs to last century.

The Prologue and the Promise:
horizons_prologue_mural_web.jpg


....but back to supaheroes....
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Why yes, there is most certainly an appetite to make the world a better place. Ecology, sustainable development, and social and animal rights are currently as hott as my curvy buttcheeks in a tight beach outfit.

What is outdated is the old EPCOT modernist idea of 'man' marching towards a utopian future, in a linear progression from the dawn of time towards an idealised future, an unspecified but utopian place. A utopia visualised as CenterCore in WoM, a progressive march recapitulated in Horizons' magnificent mural The Prologue and the Promise (a title which reflects the journey one makes in WoM, Horizons, and SSE), an ascent of man brought to literal form in SSE, from the first faint glimmer of light of our caveman ancestor to our space age fulfillment of man's destiny.
Disney's utopian ideal was humane, a far cry from the totalitarian and socialist ideals of the same source, and in many ways an answer to them. But like the others it belongs to last century.

The Prologue and the Promise:
horizons_prologue_mural_web.jpg


....but back to supaheroes....

Interesting. It is obviously unknowable whether a repackaged version of the vision displayed in McCall's* work would gain any traction in a post-modern society given that philosophical eras are almost impossible to accurately define until in the rear-view mirror. But I have very much enjoyed the philosophical angle taken in regards to EPCOT Center. I hadn't given that much thought to placing it within the context of greater societal trends at such a high level. It is rare that online forums managed to stimulate my brain on such a level and for that, I thank you.

*As an aside, I cannot begin to calculate the sum that I would be willing to pay for that mural, or more realistically, his reference painting.

Edit: Typos
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Interesting. It is obviously unknowable whether a repackaged version of the vision displayed in McCall's* work would gain any traction in a post-modern society given that philosophical eras are almost impossible to accurately define until in the rear-view mirror. But I have very much enjoyed the philosophical angle taken in regards to EPCOT Center. I hadn't given that much thought to placing it within the context of greater societal trends at such a high level. It is rare that online forums managed to stimulate my brain on such a level and for that, I thank you.
Why, thank you for this thread. It had completely escaped my attention until you mentioned it elsewhere.

I too think EPCOT is nowhere near as outdated as critics claim it was / is. A mere visit to EPCOT Center's proud remnants would prove otherwise: the ride by monorail, walking towards the mighty SSE, riding SSE and LwtL, walking WS lagoon. Doing that while turning a blind eye to toon fish and princesses makes for an experience just as powerful and engrossing as ever.

The irony is that old EPCOT feels less dated than new Epcot.

Future World could indeed easily have been kept current. It was never as reliant on showcasing contemporary technology, never mind future tech, as much as it is sometimes thought it was. It was designed to be more timeless, and easily updatable to boot.

And even where it is outdated a bit, why should that matter? Main Street has long since stopped being about living nostalgia as it was to elder guests in 1955. Western and Exotic Adventure movies ceased to be movie genres half a century ago. Yet their lands function. EPCOT as an essentially 1980's World's Fair would be brilliant. Who would destruct that 80's World's Fair remnant of one century earlier again, the Eiffel Tower? Surely its technology has lost its wow factor now that skyscraping steel structures are erected in every provincial town?
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Why, thank you for this thread. It had completely escaped my attention until you mentioned it elsewhere.

I too think EPCOT is nowhere near as outdated as critics claim it was / is. A mere visit to EPCOT Center's proud remnants would prove otherwise: the ride by monorail, walking towards the mighty SSE, riding SSE and LwtL, walking WS lagoon. Doing that while turning a blind eye to toon fish and princesses makes for an experience just as powerful and engrossing as ever.

The irony is that old EPCOT feels less dated than new Epcot.

Future World could indeed easily have been kept current. It was never as reliant on showcasing contemporary technology, never mind future tech, as much as it is sometimes thought it was. It was designed to be more timeless, and easily updatable to boot.

And even where it is outdated a bit, why should that matter? Main Street has long since stopped being about living nostalgia as it was to elder guests in 1955. Western and Exotic Adventure movies ceased to be movie genres half a century ago. Yet their lands function. EPCOT as an essentially 1980's World's Fair would be brilliant. Who would destruct that 80's World's Fair remnant of one century earlier again, the Eiffel Tower? Surely its technology has lost its wow factor now that skyscraping steel structures are erected in every provincial town?

Very well put.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Old memories are always better then present realities. One of the many defense mechanism of the human being. But, it is OK to love something that was there, just understand it is something that was and in its time was jaw-dropping. If you got the same thing new today, there would be a whole lot less impressiveness.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Old memories are always better then present realities. One of the many defense mechanism of the human being. But, it is OK to love something that was there, just understand it is something that was and in its time was jaw-dropping. If you got the same thing new today, there would be a whole lot less impressiveness.
Yes, if Casablanca were filmed new today, if the Empire State Building were build new today, if a man would walk on the moon today, there would be a whole lot less impressiveness.

And yet, their lasting appeal as relevant icons of American culture is not based on false nostalgia as a defense mechanism. Like Disney Parks and movies, their being products of their era is part of their appeal, part of their cultural aura. It gives them more meaning, not less.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Yes, if Casablanca were filmed new today, if the Empire State Building were build new today, if a man would walk on the moon today, there would be a whole lot less impressiveness.

And yet, their lasting appeal as relevant icons of American culture is not based on false nostalgia as a defense mechanism. Like Disney Parks and movies, their being products of their era is part of their appeal, part of their cultural aura. It gives them more meaning, not less.
Funny I would think that since they are not real and just fantasy they would be false nostalgia, whereas the things you mentioned are real, life events or "not false". I guess it is just how we look at things. You last sentence is why so many of us fight to keep some of the original "Walt" thoughts alive and well. But, seriously, we cannot and should not keep it all. Nostalgia only requires small snippets of the past, not actually being in the past. That is something that I feel that they have not only been conscience of, but, have done a pretty good job of continuing. Every park has something that was there originally, it hasn't all been removed. However, in order to grow, most things must change, that's how growth happens.

New, current nostalgia is created all the time. Case in point, think about the reaction by more then just a few, to the removal of the BAH. Something that those of us that had been around a while felt was a total monstrosity that upset the balance and look of the park. Yet, so many hated to see it go, because that was their nostalgia, it just wasn't ours. I will guarantee you that the older one gets, the more they have to stand aside and let newer thoughts and desires take over because it is a different set of people making the decisions and it almost always isn't going to agree with our older way of thinking.
 
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