Bayou_Tigerfan
New Member
Could that be because MK filled to capacity on New Year's Eve, and Epcot has a higher capacity?
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The NEW Disney Decade???
- Thread starter niteobsrvr
- Start date
Could that be because MK filled to capacity on New Year's Eve, and Epcot has a higher capacity?
Main Street USA
Well-Known Member
Disney's focus is becoming too much on teens, not adults. Building more and more thrill rides will do the opposite of what Disney should be doing to set themselves apart from teen hangouts like IOA.
It's a complete shame, and borderline tragedy for die-hard Disney fans in their low 20's or above to see Disney ignoring the possibility of a new slow moving dark ride.
I love thrill rides, but that isn't what Disney has ever been about, nor should it be.
This subject keeps coming up and various opinions have been expressed all related to engineering. I have yet to see anyone say I am a structural engineer who has seen the original plans for spaceship earth. Engineers can accomplish a lot of amazing things that we wouldn't necessarily think is possible.
The cost could be as little as 20 million or more than a hundred million. If the ride technology isn't new like Mission:Space it would most likley come in toward the lower end of that range.
The only time of day Spaceship Earth is busy is in the morning when people are first coming into the park. After that people tend to forget about it. Hopefully when they redesign it, the que area will be facing toward World Showcase and not the main entrance so that people will see it and think about riding it as they cross through Future World.
The marketing pact between Disney and Microsoft is probably a lot bigger than most people think. Future sponsorship is most likely a matter of when not if.
But we can see SSE anywhere in the park! Shouldn't that be enough of a lure? I would expect people would only ride it as soon as they get there, but I think that is what they had in mind when they built the park....I think they should use that idea when redesigning the ride if they ever do....so that it really introduces Epcot, technology, innovations, etc....mabey even better than the original ride did. The current ride focuses on a specific subject: communication...I think it would be better if they turned the pavilion into something that focused mainly on "the future", like Horizons once did. Now that Horizons is gone, I think they could use a "future" ride in Future Word.
You're right MainStreet but times and people change. Die hard Disney fans are an exception. Disney has a disconnect that is occurring right now not only with teens but with people in their 20's and even early thirties who don't have kids. Proof of this lies in the vacation video that I received recently that spent more time touting the the benefits of a Disney vacation to younger adults with no kids.
I believe the reason they develop the disconnect is the result of two things. First, Disney has a lot of great movies every year but they put them under studio names that aren't directly associated by most folks with Disney. This means the average person younger than say 25 may not associate "cool" movies with Disney. Second the attractions available are pretty tame compared to most parks. Not too many 16 to 25 year olds are interested in Bear in the Big BLue House or Beauty and the Beast.
I am not saying that every park needs to be redesigned but I am saying more needs to be done to attract and entertain a group of people that wasn't previously on Disney's radar screen. If you lose a demographic group, especially young males and younger couples with no kids, it will affect your business for a long time.
In a business like Disney where some 80% of the customers will become repeat visitors, it is very important to make sure you engage guests as young as possible and hold onto them throughout their growing years and early adult life. You need to hold on to them until they have kids of their own and want to share the gentler more magical side of Disney with their new young ones. The life cycle is something like Experience the Magic, Live the Thrill and finally Share the Magic.
If you make it through the first step you have a potential customer later on down the road. If you get them through part two, you are nearly guaranteed a customer while they are in the single or married with no kids stage. Once you make it to part three, you pretty much have a customer for life.
Its a lot easier and possibly cheaper to build a few thrill rides now than it is to lose a segment of your customers to more "exciting" destinations. The cost of regaining the attention of that market segment in the future could be quite high and their is no guarantee it can be accomplished.
It could be if there was something people deemed interesting inside of it. Thats a bigger part of the problem. I still love to ride it but only because I love the starfield at the very top. If you could put me in their with comets whizzing by and the like I would probalby never leave.
On the flip side though, its that location issue. You see the entrance when you are coming in to the park. After that, it is hidden, so to speak, until you are on your way out again. There is a psychological factor involved in how people perceive things and a lot of folks see the entance to SSE as out of the way.
The same though goes for lines. If the average person sees a line at an attraction, they will perceive it as popular and worth waiting for or coming back to later. An attraction with no line doesn't have the same effect.
Bayou_Tigerfan
New Member
WDW has different videos that are targeted to different groups. One video promotes attractions designed for children, the other promotes attractions geared toward adults. That's simply smart marketing and certainly isn't "proof" of any "disconnect."
I agree it is smart marketing. However, as you read these boards and even news stories related to Disney, you are led to believe they are in the business of family entertainment. That being the case there would be little reason to make separate videos to target different segments. One family fun oriented video with the right mix of family friendly and adult oriented material would be fine. Unless of course Disney's research shows that they are not attracting people from these other demographics due to perceptions of what Disney is about.
pjammer
Active Member
I am not a structual engineer but I have heard from an WDI engineer about their plans for SSE. But the problem taking the ride outside the ball they never thought of people being stuck outside the ball for an extended amount of time. They where going to go outside in a glass casing which they forgot they would need to air condition some way. Imagine if you where stuck on top of SSE in a glass tube during the middle of summer for twenty plus minutes. Wouldn't be that fun.
Yes Spaceship Earth has the longest line in the morning but it still manages to have a higher guest count than Test Track which mantains a 60 min wait all day long. Its not that people tend to forget about it...its that many have already ridden it. Last year, Spaceship Earth was closed for a day for rehab. Guest Relations recieved more complaints from that one day of closure than Test Track did the whole week it was down for rehab. You average person is going to be upset that the park Icon is closed.
ImagineerFan04
New Member
I hope that some of the plans for Project Gemini goes through like time race and a sorin ride and the living seas attraction. Yea epcot isn't the only park which needs help AK and disney/MgM studios need help to. but Epcot needs the most help. those 3 sttraction the an attraction in the world show case would probably fix epcot.
Ak needs stuff to. like a ew land soon would help. Don't get me wrong the parks are great they just need a little work.
the studios is my favorite park it just needs another attration and that exspansion across world dirve.
Ak needs stuff to. like a ew land soon would help. Don't get me wrong the parks are great they just need a little work.
the studios is my favorite park it just needs another attration and that exspansion across world dirve.
pyschotropic
New Member
Here's my two cents I think this whole deal with Disney doing thrill rides is definitely a great step in a different direction I used to focus my attention on mainly coasters and things being built around the world outside of Disney until I saw the potential they had with designing thrillrides and darkrides, now my interests in working with the amusement industry lie solely towards Disney I am truly convinced that the Walt Disney Imagineering can take you anywhere their Imagination can go just Imagine what we have seen from them in the past 50 years and just imagine what we will sem from them in the next 50 years, think about that! Also I do love what Universal can do as we'll, but from what I have heard most of Universal Creative consists of retired or off the clock Imagineers!
pjammer
Active Member
I think why Disney does so well is b/c of the family formula. If ever ride was to scary or intemidating for children then neither the parents nor the children would have a good time. Magic Kingdom has the most kiddie rides but that doesn't mean they should faze them out of all the other parks. You need these rides to keep the small children occupied as well
This issue to me is dead. There will be half the people that want change and half that don't and your never going to change their minds. However, if Disneyland stayed the same as when it was open, that would be pretty pathetic wouldn't it? There has to be change. If you consider M:S a thrill ride and not the technology ride that it is, then there is a huge problem. Disney HAS to change. Times have changed, kids have changed, and you HAVE to change along with the times. Now don't say "we don't need another Six Flags" because that's not where I'm going. I'm saying put a few thrill rides if you may, a good number of dark rides and you have the perfect mix. The only reason Horizons was taken down so quickly was because it was sinking. So let's be fair. Then've done a few boners and they've done some magnificent attractions. Let's just go with the flow.
Main Street USA
Well-Known Member
Kenny, partner, I disagree with about 80% of your post.
1. The disneyland example is a poor one. Disneyland's main change has been growth. A lot fo this growth was planned from the beginnning. This is apples compared to the oranges of the current issue at hand.
2. Times have changed, kids have changed, but no one HAS to change along with it. If Disney continues to close down and replace their classic rides, they will be alienating just as large a group as they will be gaining. The number one thing that still sets Disney apart from Universal, Six Flags, and other parks, is that when you walk into a WDW park, you're walking into a family environment. If Disney changes this, they will have a much larger problem than "not enough teenager stuff."
3. "I'm saying put a few thrill rides if you may, a good number of dark rides and you have the perfect mix. You hit the nail on the head with that quote. Unfortunately, Disney has been putting in these thrill rides at the expense of the e-ticket dark rides.
4. "The only reason Horizons was taken down so quickly was because it was sinking." This is a completely unconfirmed and most likely false statement. I've read that on this site, and have heard it other places, BUT I've heard just the opposite from many people that seem to have an inside hand in things.
5. "They've done a few boners and they've done some magnificent attractions." I agree with the magnificent part, but not so much the part. I DO think it was a to do away with the second and third most popular dark rides in Epcot and build new attractions in their place. However, the attractions that replaced them were first class.
I'm not saying that i'm disappointed with Disney's decision making. Whatever they do, it will have a lot of thought behind it, and will ultimately be the best decision for the sake of the entire resort. This is what these people do for a living, therefore, 99.9% of the time they have a much better view of how things actually are.
So, in closing, I will go with the flow, and I'll never stop going to WDW as long as it, and I, exist. I just hope they keep in mind the original ideals that were set way back in 1971, and don't turn into an IOA teen fun park.
I think a lot of people are missing somthing that Disney isn't. The parks aren't going to be rebuilt into Thrill Parks. There is already a whole group of parks out there that cater to the higher/faster thrill seekers. Disney's goal is to simply attract the market that wants a higher level of thrill and involvement in their entertainment. By doing this, it makes the Disney Vacation an easier sell in the homes where part of the group wants intesnsity while the other part wants calm and relaxing.
Rather than call this the teen market or the thrill seeking demographic, I think it would be more appropriate to call it the interactive demographic. There is a large group of folks out there that range from teens to senior citizens, who happen to mostly be male, that spend a lot of time playing first person video games. They expect a certain level of activity, fantasy, and thrill in their entertainment. They are not ones who like to enjoy things passivley but like to feel a part of something. This is a newer characteristic brought on by the technological advancements of the last decade or so.
Rides like Test Track and Mission:Space provide opportunities to not only ride an attraction and see the scenes but to have a certain level of participation. And in the case of Test Track, you can still ride with most of your family if they are so willing. Mission: SPace is on a slightly different level and may not encompass the whole family ino the experience, but then again its the only truly intense ride in EPCOT.
Disney doesn't have to destroy every dark ride and turn the parks in to rollercoaster Kingdoms. Doing so would have a hugely adverse effect on their business. But they do need to get the mix right so that all members of a family feel as though they can have a great time at Disney.
Rather than call this the teen market or the thrill seeking demographic, I think it would be more appropriate to call it the interactive demographic. There is a large group of folks out there that range from teens to senior citizens, who happen to mostly be male, that spend a lot of time playing first person video games. They expect a certain level of activity, fantasy, and thrill in their entertainment. They are not ones who like to enjoy things passivley but like to feel a part of something. This is a newer characteristic brought on by the technological advancements of the last decade or so.
Rides like Test Track and Mission:Space provide opportunities to not only ride an attraction and see the scenes but to have a certain level of participation. And in the case of Test Track, you can still ride with most of your family if they are so willing. Mission: SPace is on a slightly different level and may not encompass the whole family ino the experience, but then again its the only truly intense ride in EPCOT.
Disney doesn't have to destroy every dark ride and turn the parks in to rollercoaster Kingdoms. Doing so would have a hugely adverse effect on their business. But they do need to get the mix right so that all members of a family feel as though they can have a great time at Disney.
I defenetly agree here. I think that now is the time for Epcot to bite the bullet and churn out some real eye popping, yet STILL tied to themes, thrill attractions. This way the thrill seeker/adrenaline driven types of people (mostly teens) will stop comming out of Epcot going, "well that sucked".
And though new thrill rides may lead to the demise of classic family dark rides, hopefully they will fulfill the wants of the one kind of people so that Disney can once again focus on entertaining specifically the family visitors. We just may have to see a long wait before they put money into this.
But who knows? Mabey Mission: Space will be enough to fulfill the wants of the thrill seekers (with Test Track) and they will enjoy Epcot as much as another theme park in the area...then Disney may possibly re-think their design for an updated Spaceship Earth.
I will say this, thrill ride or dark ride, I think Spaceship Earth needs an update. The AAs are getting pretty old, and there are plenty of new effects they could probably pull of really cool-like in a new dark ride attraction here, perhaps focusing specifically on the future, as Horizons once did, rather than communication.
Just my thoughts
Main Street USA
I'm not trying to be disrespectful but I disagree with you. Disneyland started out as a family park. But a lot of it looked like regular theme parks. The bumper tube ride, miniature railroad, etc. They progressed which ALL the parks should. My point being, yes, they took dark rides out and replaced them with Hi Tech rides but they are magnificent. If you look many, many different aged people ride Test Track not M:S but that's one thing. MGM has two thrill rides. I honestly don't think that's taking away anything from the parks itself. Most of everything that Disney has is family oriented. You can't complain about a few Hi Tech rides going in. That really isn't fair. We all love the dark rides and I'm sure in the future Disney will be putting them in also but as of right now, they are putting in attractions that maybe geared more towards young adults, teens and even I'm 49 and I love what they are doing. That will stop eventually. When they want to replace a Hi Tech ride in the future they will probably start taking out the rides that are now there. They will have a sufficient amount of the Hi Tech ones that they will be the ones that are replaced. The only reason they are taking out dark rides is because that's all they had in those parks. You have to take them out to replace them with other things. In the future it will change again but as for right now? Just go with it.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful but I disagree with you. Disneyland started out as a family park. But a lot of it looked like regular theme parks. The bumper tube ride, miniature railroad, etc. They progressed which ALL the parks should. My point being, yes, they took dark rides out and replaced them with Hi Tech rides but they are magnificent. If you look many, many different aged people ride Test Track not M:S but that's one thing. MGM has two thrill rides. I honestly don't think that's taking away anything from the parks itself. Most of everything that Disney has is family oriented. You can't complain about a few Hi Tech rides going in. That really isn't fair. We all love the dark rides and I'm sure in the future Disney will be putting them in also but as of right now, they are putting in attractions that maybe geared more towards young adults, teens and even I'm 49 and I love what they are doing. That will stop eventually. When they want to replace a Hi Tech ride in the future they will probably start taking out the rides that are now there. They will have a sufficient amount of the Hi Tech ones that they will be the ones that are replaced. The only reason they are taking out dark rides is because that's all they had in those parks. You have to take them out to replace them with other things. In the future it will change again but as for right now? Just go with it.
Bayou_Tigerfan
New Member
AK is getting Everest and MGM is getting the stunt car show -- it's not like only Epcot is getting the love.
Main Street USA
Well-Known Member
All is well. It's not disrespctful to disagree with someone. In fact, if we couldn't disagree with each other this thread would've been boring AND ended after the third post.
I don't think I have quite the extreme viewpoint that some seem to think I have, though. I'm perfectly happy with the new attractions that have been put in. I love Test Track, Rock n Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror, and I'm sure I'll love Mission: Space. You know why I love these rides? Not only the thrill, but first and foremost, story.
As long as they never shy away from the theming and story, it won't matter how many thrills they put in. It will still be set apart as Disney always has been. i.e. IOA has some great thrills, and even some with great story, but a few attractions lack in theming once you board the ride.
cookiee_munster
Well-Known Member
i think the non disney movie related attractions are better IMO, they seem to create a much better atmosphere and contain LOADS more detail, and also they will cater for anyone because usually with Disney movies people seem to have mixed opinions, likes and dislikes about them, which then either draws a croud or doesnt...