The Future Walt Disney World Resort

[LuvtheGoof]

So let's address #9 shall we. Since you think it is delusional. Take a quick read on what's happening over on the west coast
http://www.mousemonthly.com/5-steps...-to-get-rid-of-passholders-disneyland-resort/

I'm sure that it only is limited to DL and will in no way whatsoever creep its way into Central Florida. So I'm sure we have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Disney has a capacity problem. No. It's not happening tomorrow. But over the course of time (possibly a decade or 2) it will. AP's sole purpose was to help Disney fill the parks during the slower periods of time. Fact is, they don't need the help anymore. AP prices will continue to rise (disproportionate to daily ticket increases) until it hits a level where it is not beneficial to purchase them. In short, they will be phased out.

As an example: What happens in 5 years (or whenever they feel the time is right) when they decide parking is no longer offered as part of the AP. Is it still the bargain for an AP Holder who visits the park 40x year. If now all of the sudden there is an additional $800 a year he is paying for parking?

OK, I read the article so let's take a look:

Raise Annual Passport Prices Year After Year
Well, duh. Everything goes up every year. Fact of life, and no surprise. This year, our AP outlay went down, not up, since they introduced the new Gold Pass. Yes, there are blackout dates, but we don't ever visit during those times anyway, so we paid less this year than last year. Hardly indicative of trying to get rid of us.

Advertise Cancellation Of The Southern California Annual Passport
Well, obviously only at DL, and WDW does not have any kind of similar deal for central Florida residents. There isn't anything to do away with in Florida, so nothing for Disney to do either direction. Apples and oranges.

Don’t Make Renewal Options Easy Or Obvious
Really??? I went on-line to the WDW website, logged in, clicked on Annual Passes, and bought mine. It was automatically linked to my MDE account and that of my wife (you can select who gets them from your family and friends list). Never been easier. Oh, and there was full information and disclosure about what the passes included, and the blackout dates. No surprises there at all.

Quietly Cancel Sales Of ‘Blockout Day’ Tickets
Umm, I don't believe that WDW even has this option, so nothing to cancel. Again, there are only a few weeks of blackout dates, and they aren't at times I want to be anywhere near the parks anyway. If I wanted to, I could buy the next level pass, and have no blackout dates. Apples and oranges again.

(Really) Quietly Cancel The Annual Passport Yearly Parking Option
Well, Disney just added full free parking to all AP options, not too mention the free Photopass downloads, so it seems that in some ways they are trying to make the AP option more valuable. Free parking is still available to the higher level APs at DL, and would be much cheaper for someone going every week. They don't have the luxury of size out there, and their parking is severely limited compared to WDW. If needed, I can park at EPCOT and take a monorail to MK, or vice versa. They don't have that option at DL, so I can completely understand that move. If visitors to the area can't get in to park due to thousands of locals taking up all of the parking, then they won't be back. Am I excusing it? No, but I do understand why they did it.

So yes, I still think that getting rid of APs at WDW is delusional. DL and WDW are 2 completely different beasts as there are a ton more local AP holders at DL than there are at WDW. WDW is crowded because people are coming from all over the world, not because there are a million AP holders that visit the parks all the time.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Let's address this one now. Have you ever made a reservation for a Dinner Show? HDD Revue, MBYBBQ? It is a prepayment. No holding your card and charging if you don't show up. Paid upfront - all of it.

Is it really a stretch to think Disney would require a $25, maybe $50 "deposit" on a TS reservation? It is absolutely not costing them money. It all goes into a interest bearing account (Interest for Disney). It's all about breakage. Yes, they will have those that cancel. And yes, they will incur a small cost to refund a credit card. But the associated costs will be severely outweighed by money they are making on interest from those that don't cancel.

Yes, I have made a reservation for the dinner show, and Disney is upfront that they will charge my CC right away. So do lots of other places, so Disney is not alone on this one, and they only do it for a very few, very popular things. No big deal, and you can cancel in advance.

Yes, I believe it is a stretch as Disney took a lot of flak just for the $10 charge. Oh, and you do understand that Disney doesn't actually get ANY money for that unless you don't show up, right? That is not a charge that you pay upfront and are then refunded when you show up. Doesn't work that way, and I cannot see it EVER being that way.

Disney added this charge in response to the tons of rude idiots that were making 6 or 7 reservations all over the place, and then simply not showing up for all but one, taking that table away from someone else. As I stated earlier, I would actually increase the cancellation threshold to 2 days, instead of the night before. Heck, I would get even more draconian with it, and require that you have an MDE account, and that only ONE person in a party can make reservations. Right now, there are many people that still make multiple reservations using different names, again taking that table away from someone else until the day before. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This thread should come with a free bottle of aspirin.......or vodka.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I don't think they will be entirely outpriced. What my point is that they will be able to afford the very basic experience but Disney is going to increase the divide a good bit more by making "plussed" experiences cost more and be far more plentiful. I get where they are coming from on a bottom line stockholder point of view but I personally would rather not go at all if it feels like my kid, spouse, family feels lesser because we could not afford the "super duper express fastpass plus" option or the "arrive early, stay late option" or "preferred seating for $$$" or whatever other cash cow options they can come up with. I miss the days when one guest was equal to another but alas...I have to realize those days are coming to an end and we are being more classified and broken down than ever before. In the end Disney will do whatever they will do...but so will my vacation dollar. I am not a pixie dust addict, I once loved a thing but that thing is vanishing so I am in the minority that is seeking life elsewhere.

Actually, one guest has NEVER been equal, even going back to the origins of DL. People really like to rewrite history around here. When DL and WDW first opened, they had ticket books. The more money you had, the more rides you could experience. Nothing equal about that at all. If I have more money than you, I can ride more E tickets, and you are stuck on the A and B rides. FP+ is free to all, and while it may change in the future to where on-site resort guests get a few extra, I cannot EVER see it being a paid option. Disney is not Universal, and they don't want to be, either.

Both parks have also had personalized guides that would take you through the parks at a different level than other guests, costing hundreds of dollars. Has always been there, and still is.

I'm not sure what "plussed" experiences you are referring to. A dessert party? Are you talking about the EMH perk for on-site guests? We actually try to avoid that park, as it becomes much more busy soon after the EMH is over. And the other parks are a lot less crowded early in the morning. Fantasmic Dinner Show options? You can always stand in line, and still get a seat. Nothing has changed there. If someone wants to pay extra for dinner and a show, then more power to them. Now if it gets to the point where you have to pay, then I have a problem with it.

 

[WDWVolFan]

OP must be a huge X-Files fan...

The truth is out there...
Trust no one...

Iger must be an alien too...can we just talk about the plans that have been announced and go back to about Innoventions being a poop show all empty and abandoned?

 

[Chef Mickey]

If they don't expand meaningfully (I mean way more than anything currently rumored) they will be forced to:

1) Raise prices even more (a lot more)
2) Start keeping people not staying on property out a lot more of the time, if not all the time.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yes, this is typical for many hotel chains. Others show it immediately on the first page as soon as you shop room rates, which is better in my opinion.



Because you could have a choice. If you can get the exact same amenities at a similar property that has a smaller resort charge amount, it can make a difference.

Yes, and you can do the same thing if everything was combined into one price, the resort fee just makes it more complicated. I just don't see what point you are trying to make.

 

[Andrew C]

Yes, and you can do the same thing if everything was combined into one price, the resort fee just makes it more complicated. I just don't see what point you are trying to make.

The reason I originally commented on this was that it was stated that resort charges are deceptive. Nothing has been shown to make me feel that it is any more deceptive than including it in the rate. The conversation ended up going of a bit different way, with questions, answers, follow-up questions, etc.

Yes, you can definitely argue that some guests will feel that splitting it makes it more complicated for them. I am not saying one way is better (although for hotels, splitting it is better for many reasons. I won't pretend this doesn't generate additional revenue for them)...only that resort charges are not as deceptive as some make it out to be.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

The reason I originally commented on this was that it was stated that resort charges are deceptive. Nothing has been shown to make me feel that it is any more deceptive than including it in the rate. The conversation ended up going of a bit different way, with questions, answers, follow-up questions, etc.

Yes, you can definitely argue that some guests will feel that splitting it makes it more complicated for them. I am not saying one way is better (although for hotels, splitting it is better for many reasons. I won't pretend this doesn't generate additional revenue for them)...only that resort charges are not as deceptive as some make it out to be.

One could possibly argue that keeping it separate might save a few pennies for folks, since that part of the bill wouldn't be taxed like the normal room rate. Or I am completely off-base with that thinking? I'm not sure.

 

[danlb_2000]

One could possibly argue that keeping it separate might save a few pennies for folks, since that part of the bill wouldn't be taxed like the normal room rate. Or I am completely off-base with that thinking? I'm not sure.

This is a good point. I checked the Swan/Dolphin reservation and the hotel tax and sales tax only apply to the room rate, not the resort fee. But as you say that only saves you a couple dollars.

 

[copcarguyp71]

Actually, one guest has NEVER been equal, even going back to the origins of DL. People really like to rewrite history around here. When DL and WDW first opened, they had ticket books. The more money you had, the more rides you could experience. Nothing equal about that at all. If I have more money than you, I can ride more E tickets, and you are stuck on the A and B rides. FP+ is free to all, and while it may change in the future to where on-site resort guests get a few extra, I cannot EVER see it being a paid option. Disney is not Universal, and they don't want to be, either.

Both parks have also had personalized guides that would take you through the parks at a different level than other guests, costing hundreds of dollars. Has always been there, and still is.

I'm not sure what "plussed" experiences you are referring to. A dessert party? Are you talking about the EMH perk for on-site guests? We actually try to avoid that park, as it becomes much more busy soon after the EMH is over. And the other parks are a lot less crowded early in the morning. Fantasmic Dinner Show options? You can always stand in line, and still get a seat. Nothing has changed there. If someone wants to pay extra for dinner and a show, then more power to them. Now if it gets to the point where you have to pay, then I have a problem with it.

The very last sentence is where you get my point. This thread is about the future and suppositions or conjectures that we all are coming up with based on all of our individual experiences and intellect where Disney is concerned. I see a day coming when those things MAY cost additional. A day when in addition to the gate fees we will have multitudes of little microcosms of additional fees beyond the usual (and acceptable) dalliances out of the ordinary. Charge for front row seating at the parade...sure why not. Charge for better fastier fastpasses....sure why not. Charge for EMH's above and beyond resort room rate...sure why not. The issue I see is that people coming through the gate only willing to spend just the entry fee will be left to feel like they have only been part of half of an experience. I see (possibly) a day when Disney will get you through the gate and then guilt you into spending every last cent in your savings just so that your kids have as magical a time as the 1%ers kids because after all...it's a once in a lifetime trip! It is capitalism at its' finest and if it works for them then I understand the bottom line matters... but for me, not so much and if it comes to that I will be deeply saddened...but not disappointed since I saw it coming.

 

[dizda]

This is a good point. I checked the Swan/Dolphin reservation and the hotel tax and sales tax only apply to the room rate, not the resort fee. But as you say that only saves you a couple dollars.

That is the main advantage of the resort fee from a guest perspective. In some locations, the fee is not subject to room tax. In other locations, I have noticed that resort fees seem to be subject to tax. It just depends on the location and how aggressive the hotels are with the fees and how aggressive the local government wants to be with taxes. At least the lack of tax is one positive to the resort fees for non-Disney hotels.

 

[dizda]

Cash at Disney World.. Are you referring to inside the parks? If so, then no. That is ridiculous. Obviously you can't get rid of cash within the parks. Much like how you can purchase candy on a cruise ship without the use of a credit card. There are kids and teens on huge field trips that do not own credit cards and bring in cash.. If they got rid of cash in the parks that way, then there's a huge chunk of money lost on spending from this group trying to buy souvenirs and snacks.

I actually kind of like the FP+ add-ons idea, TBH.. Depending on what the price would be, though.

I do not think Disney will go completely cashless, but I do think that Disney may limit cash transactions by making it harder to use cash (by having just a few registers that can accept cash). For people who do not have credit cards or debit cards (such as teens) or who do not want to link a MB to a bank account or credit card, as has been noted, Disney could accommodate them by letting them load cash onto their MBs at their resorts or customer service locations. For teens on trips, parents could even pre-load a certain value onto the teens' MBs when making the reservation. Of course, Disney will want to encourage cashless transactions because they save money not having to handle cash, but they also will not want to give up revenue by refusing cash. They will just make it less convenient to nudge people (even those who prefer cash or do not have credit or debit cards) toward going cashless.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I do not think Disney will go completely cashless, but I do think that Disney may limit cash transactions by making it harder to use cash (by having just a few registers that can accept cash). For people who do not have credit cards or debit cards (such as teens) or who do not want to link a MB to a bank account or credit card, as has been noted, Disney could accommodate them by letting them load cash onto their MBs at their resorts or customer service locations. For teens on trips, parents could even pre-load a certain value onto the teens MBs when making the reservation. Of course, Disney will want to encourage cashless transactions because they save money not having to handle cash, but they also will not want to give up revenue by refusing cash. They will just make it less convenient to nudge people (even those who prefer cash or do not have credit or debit cards) toward going cashless.

Agree that it will be a gradual process. I don't believe they will ever get to a point where they announce the entire park goes cashless and it is being implemented from one day to the next. They will need to gradually encourage a change in behavior. If you look at the toll roads in Florida as an example, cash was accepted early on. The behavior slowly changed where more and more people opted for Sunpass or Epass and they became more accepted. There are stretches now in South Florida that are completely cash free. In that part of the state it is either Sunpass or Toll-by-Plate. No cash changes hand. The entire Turnpike system and affiliated toll roads will eventually go entirely this route.

 

[Nick Wilde]

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

OK, I read the article so let's take a look:

Raise Annual Passport Prices Year After Year
Well, duh. Everything goes up every year. Fact of life, and no surprise. This year, our AP outlay went down, not up, since they introduced the new Gold Pass. Yes, there are blackout dates, but we don't ever visit during those times anyway, so we paid less this year than last year. Hardly indicative of trying to get rid of us.

Advertise Cancellation Of The Southern California Annual Passport
Well, obviously only at DL, and WDW does not have any kind of similar deal for central Florida residents. There isn't anything to do away with in Florida, so nothing for Disney to do either direction. Apples and oranges.

Don’t Make Renewal Options Easy Or Obvious
Really??? I went on-line to the WDW website, logged in, clicked on Annual Passes, and bought mine. It was automatically linked to my MDE account and that of my wife (you can select who gets them from your family and friends list). Never been easier. Oh, and there was full information and disclosure about what the passes included, and the blackout dates. No surprises there at all.

Quietly Cancel Sales Of ‘Blockout Day’ Tickets
Umm, I don't believe that WDW even has this option, so nothing to cancel. Again, there are only a few weeks of blackout dates, and they aren't at times I want to be anywhere near the parks anyway. If I wanted to, I could buy the next level pass, and have no blackout dates. Apples and oranges again.

(Really) Quietly Cancel The Annual Passport Yearly Parking Option
Well, Disney just added full free parking to all AP options, not too mention the free Photopass downloads, so it seems that in some ways they are trying to make the AP option more valuable. Free parking is still available to the higher level APs at DL, and would be much cheaper for someone going every week. They don't have the luxury of size out there, and their parking is severely limited compared to WDW. If needed, I can park at EPCOT and take a monorail to MK, or vice versa. They don't have that option at DL, so I can completely understand that move. If visitors to the area can't get in to park due to thousands of locals taking up all of the parking, then they won't be back. Am I excusing it? No, but I do understand why they did it.

So yes, I still think that getting rid of APs at WDW is delusional. DL and WDW are 2 completely different beasts as there are a ton more local AP holders at DL than there are at WDW. WDW is crowded because people are coming from all over the world, not because there are a million AP holders that visit the parks all the time.

Okay so let's make it a little more relevant to you - http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...-prices-increase-analysis-20151005-story.html

Let's pay some attention to:
"The strategy appears to be "to get those annual passholders out of Christmas week," said Scott Sanders, a former Disney vice president of pricing"

What happens when the strategy becomes to get the AP's out of Summer, Spring Break, or other peak times? Does the AP then still provide you the value? When it doesn't provide the value, you won't renew. That is how you phase something out. Call it delusional all you'd like. When you find the AP prices have increased again (which they will) and parking is no longer included in your AP (which at some point it won't), that more block-out dates have been added, that the 10% discount is now 5%, come back and refer to this thread.

Look I'm with you. I'm an AP holder myself. I don't want them gone either. But you have to take a step back and realize that there are going to be some significant changes (you are already starting to see them). The purpose of this thread was not to be a debate on why things will or will not happen. It was meant to be a conversation to gauge what types of changes may be coming based on experience and objectivity.

 

[AlexFL]

Much like how you can purchase candy on a cruise ship without the use of a credit card.

Have you ever been on a cruise? Your dollars are worthless onboard (except at the guest relations desk where you can charge your room key with some money).

Any purchases on the ship, including beverage services, spa, salon services, photography, medical and laundry services, purchases from the retail shops, gratuities, and any item or service of a personal nature, must be charged to your room key.

So I really expect this in the parks in the future as well, with ATM's to charge your magic band/ticket, if you don't want to link it to a CC/DC.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Have you ever been on a cruise? Your dollars are worthless onboard (except at the guest relations desk where you can charge your room key with some money).

Any purchases on the ship, including beverage services, spa, salon services, photography, medical and laundry services, purchases from the retail shops, gratuities, and any item or service of a personal nature, must be charged to your room key.

So I really expect this in the parks in the future as well, with ATM's to charge your magic band/ticket, if you don't want to link it to a CC/DC.

Yes. Yes I have. I've been on 4 times on Disney, twice on Carnival, twice on Royal Caribbean, once on one I forget the name of through Panama Canal, and I will be going on Princess in a few days to Hawaii (plus Disneyland afterwards! Woop!)

You can pay for drinks, snacks, souvenirs and other items in the shops with cash. This is more along the lines of what I was referring to. It makes sense for big expenses to be used only through credit card, that is a lot of cash to work with. I remember buying souvenirs with cash inside the shops 2 years ago. Unless it has indeed changed.. I know all other cruise lines haven't done this in the past 2 years for these types of purchases.

 

[dizda]

Agree that it will be a gradual process. I don't believe they will ever get to a point where they announce the entire park goes cashless and it is being implemented from one day to the next. They will need to gradually encourage a change in behavior. If you look at the toll roads in Florida as an example, cash was accepted early on. The behavior slowly changed where more and more people opted for Sunpass or Epass and they became more accepted. There are stretches now in South Florida that are completely cash free. In that part of the state it is either Sunpass or Toll-by-Plate. No cash changes hand. The entire Turnpike system and affiliated toll roads will eventually go entirely this route.

I am actually surprised that the FL Turnpike still has so many cash lanes. Dallas is all license-plate billing and Georgia will be all toll pass soon (if it is not already).

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Okay so let's make it a little more relevant to you - http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...-prices-increase-analysis-20151005-story.html

Let's pay some attention to:
"The strategy appears to be "to get those annual passholders out of Christmas week," said Scott Sanders, a former Disney vice president of pricing"

What happens when the strategy becomes to get the AP's out of Summer, Spring Break, or other peak times? Does the AP then still provide you the value? When it doesn't provide the value, you won't renew. That is how you phase something out. Call it delusional all you'd like. When you find the AP prices have increased again (which they will) and parking is no longer included in your AP (which at some point it won't), that more block-out dates have been added, that the 10% discount is now 5%, come back and refer to this thread.

Look I'm with you. I'm an AP holder myself. I don't want them gone either. But you have to take a step back and realize that there are going to be some significant changes (you are already starting to see them). The purpose of this thread was not to be a debate on why things will or will not happen. It was meant to be a conversation to gauge what types of changes may be coming based on experience and objectivity.

I do take a step and look at it from a Disney financial perspective. AP holders such as us spend money in the parks. Simple fact. They will never want to give up that money. Might it cost us more in the future? Absolutely, as does everything else you buy. This year, they added a Gold Pass with blackout dates. It works for us, as we don't ever go to the parks during those dates, so we actually saved money this year. We don't do crazy. If we wanted, we could spend the additional fee for the pass that does NOT have blackout dates.

Will they add more blackout dates? Possibly. Will they take away parking for the lower level passes like they did at DL? Possibly. But there will ALWAYS be a pass that allows unlimited access with free parking year round that people can purchase. Everyone just has to decide if it is worth it to them.

So let's take a look. The DL website states that a Deluxe Passport is $599, and does not include parking. Parking is $18/day. The next level - Signature Passport at $849 includes parking, and also adds Disney Photopass downloads, higher discounts on dining and merchandise, and has many fewer blackout dates - it only has blackout dates for the last 2 weeks of December. The price is $250/year more, so equal to only 14 days of parking if you don't even include the other items. So if I go to DL every other week, or just 25 times a year (and many go a lot more than that), then the extra price of the Signature Passport is well worth it to me, not too mention getting bigger discounts on everything.

I would imagine the same thing will eventually happen at WDW once Disney knows if people are willing to pay the extra cost at DL, and how many current passholders switch. But they will never do away with the AP program. It simply makes them too much money to discontinue it.

I do agree with you that changes are coming, but you made the statement that APs will eventually go away completely, and I totally disagree with that statement. Will it cost more? Yes. Will there be changes? Yes. Is it worth it? Up to you. It will be to us.