The Disney Parks Value Story Just Got Stronger

[Cowboy Steve]

Ok so let's compare theme park to theme park. 1 day-

My local Cedar Fair park is $65 admission + $83 Fast Pass + $20 Parking = $168.00

Magic Kingdom $105 admission + $0 for Fast Pass + $20 Parking = $125.00

Well yes and no... can't really compare the $83 Fast Pass (Fast Lane) at someplace like CP (I assume that is where you are referring to) with the WDW FP. The $83 Fast Lane (FL) is unlimited and lasts all day. The Disney FP is limited in how it is used and how many times you can use it. Case in point - If I wanted to ride MF at CP 3 times in a row, I just keep getting in the FL line and ride it 3 times in a row. At Hollywood Studios, if I wanted to ride TSMM 3 times in a row, I could use my FP once (at a specified block of time), then stand in the hour plus line for the other 2 rides.

Is the $83 FL worth it at CP? If I was there for only one day, and traveled a long way to be there, it might be. And the $65 walk up gate price for entry is only $52 if you buy it online in advance. Even cheaper on a week day. I have never tried to find WDW discount single day tickets... so not sure if they are available or not.

And to me we aren't really comparing 'theme park' to 'theme park'... I would consider CP (and any other Cedar Fair or Six Flags park) an amusement park, and WDW/DL and Universal parks as 'Theme' parks.

 

[Cowboy Steve]

My wife and I are again headed to Disney in September for 9 nights at Animal Kingdom Lodge. We got an awesome deal and the deluxe hotel as part of their promotions during early September. Airfare was cheap and yes, the $449 8 Day Park Hopper seems like a real value after our most recent outing.

We decided to go to our local MLB park and watch the home team play. We had a great time.

Game Tickets: $150
Parking: $25
Hot Dog: $13 (crumbled stale chips included)
Chicken Nuggets: $14 (NOTHING else, not even fries)
Water: $4.25 per bottle (we got 2)
Coke: $6.75 per drink (we got 2)
Ice Cream: $7
Peanuts: $7
Gas: $3
Frustration with parking/traffic: ?
Total: ~$242

Again, I had a great time, but both my wife and I brought up Disney on the way home.

The food at the game was not good. Lukewarm and very low quality. The chicken was far worse than the standard breast nuggets at Disney. However, we both said the same thing. Wow, for 3 hours, we spent $242 and didn't enjoy the food.

We both brought up Liberty Tavern. For literally the same money as our "entree" of hotdog/chicken and Coke, you get a Thanksgiving meal. Sure, it's not the greatest food ever and the stuffing is probably Stovetop, but it's pretty good food for $19.

People complain about $3 water? Well, it's $4.25 here and you want it just as badly. Oh btw, no coolers or brought in food here.

Totally different experiences, but doing anything under the provided entertainment category is pretty expensive these days. Sure, you can make your own fun, but going to the mall, movies, or any sporting event can be quite an expense.

I love the Disney value of around $50/day for all your entertainment in the parks on an 8 day ticket. Sure, you have to get there, eat there, and stay in the hotel, but you have to do that anywhere. The entertainment value is great!!

Good point. Going to any pro sporting event is an expensive proposition. What stadium are you referring to here? We are thinking of seeing a MLB game next month. Haven't been to one in years... last time I went to one in Cleveland the food was expensive but good. Love me a good monster hot dog with stadium mustard and onions! And the Indians are actually leading the division... so will probably get to see a good game lol

 

[21stamps]

Well yes and no... can't really compare the $83 Fast Pass (Fast Lane) at someplace like CP (I assume that is where you are referring to) with the WDW FP. The $83 Fast Lane (FL) is unlimited and lasts all day. The Disney FP is limited in how it is used and how many times you can use it. Case in point - If I wanted to ride MF at CP 3 times in a row, I just keep getting in the FL line and ride it 3 times in a row. At Hollywood Studios, if I wanted to ride TSMM 3 times in a row, I could use my FP once (at a specified block of time), then stand in the hour plus line for the other 2 rides.

Is the $83 FL worth it at CP? If I was there for only one day, and traveled a long way to be there, it might be. And the $65 walk up gate price for entry is only $52 if you buy it online in advance. Even cheaper on a week day. I have never tried to find WDW discount single day tickets... so not sure if they are available or not.

And to me we aren't really comparing 'theme park' to 'theme park'... I would consider CP (and any other Cedar Fair or Six Flags park) an amusement park, and WDW/DL and Universal parks as 'Theme' parks.

Like I said in an earlier post.. The fast pass options aren't exactly the same, but it's the only way to give a close to accurate comparison.
The ones at WDW can be used consecutively, you just have to do it thru your phone. We rode expedition Everest back to back by going to a kiosk and grabbing another FP. No, that won't always be available.. I know that.

I have only done a fast lane pass once, when friends were in town. It was worth it to me for that time, but not something I would do regularly. I have never done one with my kid because there just are not enough rides for it to make sense for us at his height. 48"

I don't have a platinum CF pass, not until kiddo is taller, (and I love CP so I can't wait!) only Kings Island.., but we've been 'weekends only' for a couple of weeks now. Sad time for me because I typically try to avoid weekends!

The "theme park" vs "amusement park" is interesting to me. I consider Kings Island a semi theme park?. Obviously not in the same scale as WDW, Universal, or Legoland though.. which your comment proves my point that the price point is high- yet relative to what other parks are charging, and priced accordingly. You can't charge $105 regular admission at Kings Island or Cedar Point, these parks are mostly visited by people in the region on weekend trips, or locals within an hour-2 radius. WDW and Universal are different experiences, you are definitely going for an overall theme more than just amusement. I love our kid area, Planet Snoopy. The Peanuts theme is great, the characters are cute, the rides in and out of 'kiddie land' are well done, the shows are also entertaining, and it's a super clean and well maintained park. Plus right now we're all hyped to find out #What's in the Shed lol. But no, nowhere near the same as WDW themed. If it was the same, then I wouldn't need to spend thousands of dollars to visit WDW!

I think one day vs. one day, the money spent overall could be the same. Not figuring in a character meal, or BBB bc those can't be compared, and a kid doesn't have to know they exist. Food and drink prices are similar, where CF parks get you is the games and extras. The prices on tattoos and face painting are also pretty similar..but all Disney rides and 'lands' are included with admission, and you don't have people calling to your kid every 5 seconds , over a microphone, to get you to drop $5-$10 on a game..and then use the microphone to try and work you if your kid isn't doing a good enough job already.lol.
On a one day ticket at CP/KI you have to also purchase admission to Dinosaur's Alive ($5pp I think) if you want to go, and it's cool, so most do. Also the Slingshot and Sky Flyer are each $20 attractions. We've done them quite a few times this summer..if you're going for a day they are also a definite "must dos" +$40pp. I know they have VIP tours and behind the scenes tours, but I have no clue of the prices and I don't count those because it isn't "the norm".

Before I lived here, when I would visit I would plan to, and did, spend about $200 on myself during a day at KI. When my son and I now go, with a Gold Pass (parking, admission, dinosaurs alive and food discounts included), if for the whole day, we easily spend $100 or more between the 2 of us, and that's even with us bringing our 2016 refillable cups with free refills.
I love that place, but I try to ignore my bank statements and how much I really spend there over the course of a summer.lol. And..winter 2018 will bring Winterfest at the park..I'm sure there will be overpriced ice skating in the mix, and a lot more games and overpriced hot chocolate... So they'll get more out of me .

 

[seabreezept813]

Yep, I went to see Newsies this past Spring, not in New York..and still paid over $100 per ticket.

We could all moan and complain and say "these people are taking advantage of us!!" "They're scumbags!" OR- we could grumble a bit but pay the prices of places we want to go. They aren't evil. They're just capitalizing on their product.

As far as Hamilton goes- even if you are willing to mortgage your house you still may not be able to find a ticket

We saw Newsies in Boston for $25 a ticket...no joke!

 

[21stamps]

We saw Newsies in Boston for $25 a ticket...no joke!

What!?!?!?! Omg you're lucky!!! How????

I've never seen any touring Broadway show for $25. Ever!!! I need your tips !

 

[seabreezept813]

Boston has a tickets booth with half price tickets like New York. Online they sell their "obstructed view" seats for way cheap. It usually means you are on the far edges of the orchestra, so you might be looking at angle or be seeing part of a speaker. Personally, I think it's a great deal.

 

[21stamps]

Boston has a tickets booth with half price tickets like New York. Online they sell their "obstructed view" seats for way cheap. It usually means you are on the far edges of the orchestra, so you might be looking at angle or be seeing part of a speaker. Personally, I think it's a great deal.

Wow nice!!!

I really enjoyed the show. I actually just watched the Newsies movie for the first time last week. Side note- Hoopla is AWESOME! Don't even ask me how I didn't know it existed til recently, but I'm glad I know now. It has a ton of vintage Disney movies!

 

[Cowboy Steve]

Like I said in an earlier post.. The fast pass options aren't exactly the same, but it's the only way to give a close to accurate comparison.

Sorry - my comment was made based on your original comment... I got to your other comments later on lol

I have only done a fast lane pass once, when friends were in town. It was worth it to me for that time, but not something I would do regularly. I have never done one with my kid because there just are not enough rides for it to make sense for us at his height. 48"

Same here. I was visiting CP (I was an employee at the time) with friends from out of state who were on a tight schedule and could only spend one day in the park and wanted to make sure they got to ride everything.

The "theme park" vs "amusement park" is interesting to me. I consider Kings Island a semi theme park?. Obviously not in the same scale as WDW, Universal, or Legoland though.. which your comment proves my point that the price point is high- yet relative to what other parks are charging, and priced accordingly

I think they are two very different experiences, and people have a different expectation for each - thus why I prefer to differentiate between the 2. I really love CP, and really REALLY love WDW... but I could never compare the two to each other. There is some 'theming' at places like CP/KI and a little more so at Knott's Berry Farm and the Six Flags parks... but nothing like Disney and Universal. The theming at the WWoHP in Orlando is absolutely stunning. The attention to detail is impressive, and is on par, if not better than, anything at WDW.

On a one day ticket at CP/KI you have to also purchase admission to Dinosaur's Alive ($5pp I think) if you want to go, and it's cool, so most do

They still charge for Dinosaur's Alive at KI? They did for the first year or two at CP, then did away with the 'cover charge'... lol. Now it is part of your general admission. For as long as I worked at CP in the safety department (14 years), I'm ashamed to say I only ever visited one other CF park - and that was Knott's Berry Farm in CA.

 

[21stamps]

Sorry - my comment was made based on your original comment... I got to your other comments later on lol



Same here. I was visiting CP (I was an employee at the time) with friends from out of state who were on a tight schedule and could only spend one day in the park and wanted to make sure they got to ride everything.



I think they are two very different experiences, and people have a different expectation for each - thus why I prefer to differentiate between the 2. I really love CP, and really REALLY love WDW... but I could never compare the two to each other. There is some 'theming' at places like CP/KI and a little more so at Knott's Berry Farm and the Six Flags parks... but nothing like Disney and Universal. The theming at the WWoHP in Orlando is absolutely stunning. The attention to detail is impressive, and is on par, if not better than, anything at WDW.



They still charge for Dinosaur's Alive at KI? They did for the first year or two at CP, then did away with the 'cover charge'... lol. Now it is part of your general admission. For as long as I worked at CP in the safety department (14 years), I'm ashamed to say I only ever visited one other CF park - and that was Knott's Berry Farm in CA.

Trust me, I am not saying that the parks are the same experience..not by a long shot!! Like I said, if I thought they were then I would have no need to spend thousands on a trip to Disney!lol
I don't even compare universal and WDW to each other, because I love them each on their own, for different reasons, and they are different experiences. Granted they're more similar to each other than a Cedar Point or Six Flags with them. I don't spend my time at Kings Island comparing prices to Disney, but I (obviously) agree with the title and original comment by Chef Mickey in this thread. WDW is not a "bad deal" compared to other entertainment options. People were saying that it's not fair to compare a sporting event to Disney, so I put in an example of something, somewhat comparable, that we spend money on, on a regular basis- which makes WDW not seem so out of line.

P.S. I always thought it would be so fun to work at an amusement park! The employees really are great and my son loves them.
One example- He has been asking almost every employee, at every ride, "Do you know what's in the shed?" (Pertaining to a new coaster we are getting next year) Most laugh and say "No, we're waiting just like you are, buddy." 2 weeks ago when asked yet again, one of the guys take his microphone and says, in a super creepy voice, "(kiddo's name here) I know what's in the shed!" My son's jaw dropped..and he says "No way! I changed my mind. Don't tell me. I just want to be surprised!" He hasn't asked anyone since.lol.

 

[thomas998]

Listen to this guy try to educate a Wharton grad on fixed costs.

1) Water doesn't have to be refrigerated and Disney typically uses ice at point of sale. Strike 1.

Anyway, just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't understand you. D you think you have such advanced points they are hard to follow?

What are you even trying to convey in the long water bottle essay? Are you trying to say MLB charges more for water because their costs are higher? LOL. I would bet anything Disney's margin on a bottle of water is STILL higher than a single ballpark because they get it for cheaper, buy a ton more, and typically cool them with ice, not refrigeration.

Anyway, don't answer that...I really don't care to argue about these fine points. My points of entertainment being expensive across the board remains and nothing you said changes it.

How many shares do you own, just curious? If you knew anything about their profitability, you wouldn't want them killing ESPN. It's their most profitable business and the entire reason the stock has been down lately because people are concerned that cable, the golden goose, is in danger of being cut by many current subscribers. Parks and studios are doing very well.

Oh... Wharton... that explains it all. I'm HBS, but now that I know your Wharton I understand why I have to simplify things so much... What do you think the purpose of putting the water bottles in those ice filled trolleys is? It is for refrigeration... you see you don't have to have a actual refrigerator to refrigerate something... refrigeration is just a term used for any act that transfers heat... The ice in the trolleys is taking place of the refrigerated cases for drinks, understand? There is a cost of those trolleys and that is a fixed cost.... They also have a cost associated with the tons of ice they use to refrigerate the water or did you even consider that?

The bottom line is deep down if you would think through the whole process you would realize you are wrong and that my point was correct, but considering you have some chip on your shoulder from having to slum it at Wharton I'll just walk on by... You know you're off base and whether you admit it on the board or not isn't a concern...

 

[jloucks]

This Pro Sports Game VS Disney Vacation comparison gets trotted out regularly by the faithful. Let me show why they really aren't comparable.

"I know you're hungry honey, but I'm not paying these ridiculous prices. We'll eat when the games over in 3 hours"

"I know you're hungry honey, but I'm not paying these ridiculous prices. We'll eat when we leave.....in 9 days".

Hmm,, good point. You would have to compare consumption item , item per item, as best as possible. So, dinner at both venues, drinks at both venues, etc. Makes sense.

 

[jloucks]

I have noticed that our vacations, per day, seem to be a lot closer per day than you might think. It could be any destination. Any venue. Pretty much anything that requires significant travel costs, follows this rule. Of course that may be due to our tendency of budgeting the same basic amount per week and expanding expenditures to spend out that budget. We certainly are not anywhere near $50 a day per person tho. We are more like ~$220 per person, per day. Disney, about that. Universal, about that. Trip to out of state Six Flags, about that. Vegas, about that. Now our last Cruise earlier this year was well below that. And our trip to Hawaii was well above that.

But for the most part, it starts to come down to what you like most. Which was sorta your point?

 

[Chef Mickey]

Oh... Wharton... that explains it all. I'm HBS, but now that I know your Wharton I understand why I have to simplify things so much... What do you think the purpose of putting the water bottles in those ice filled trolleys is? It is for refrigeration... you see you don't have to have a actual refrigerator to refrigerate something... refrigeration is just a term used for any act that transfers heat... The ice in the trolleys is taking place of the refrigerated cases for drinks, understand? There is a cost of those trolleys and that is a fixed cost.... They also have a cost associated with the tons of ice they use to refrigerate the water or did you even consider that?

The bottom line is deep down if you would think through the whole process you would realize you are wrong and that my point was correct, but considering you have some chip on your shoulder from having to slum it at Wharton I'll just walk on by... You know you're off base and whether you admit it on the board or not isn't a concern...

How many shares do you own? That's all I care about right now.

 

[lebeau]

Ok so let's compare theme park to theme park. 1 day-

My local Cedar Fair park is $65 admission + $83 Fast Pass + $20 Parking = $168.00

Magic Kingdom $105 admission + $0 for Fast Pass + $20 Parking = $125.00

______

Oh you have to stay onsite so want to figure that cost in? Ok, let's do that.

1 night Great Wolf Lodge to be next to the Cedar Fair park- $249.99 (for a standard room, not themed) + $65 park admission + $83 FP + $20 Parking = $417.99 + $148 for second ticket = $565.99 (I did not even add in the resort fee, the total would be more)

1 Night, Port Orleans WDW- $190.00+ $105 ticket - $20 parking = $294.00 + $105 for 2nd ticket = $399.00

Disney has high prices. So does everyone else.

For less than the price of one day admission to the Magic Kingdom, I will be renewing my Kings Island season pass which is good for six months of the year. Plus, KI just announced it will be bringing back Winterfest, so add in Christmas season as well.

Edit: I forgot to mention the pass includes parking, water park admission, early ride times, discounts on food and merch, bring-a-friend days and other perks like free FastLane.

That Value Comparison is looking really one-sided!

 

[21stamps]

For less than the price of one day admission to the Magic Kingdom, I will be renewing my Kings Island season pass which is good for six months of the year. Plus, KI just announced it will be bringing back Winterfest, so add in Christmas season as well.

Edit: I forgot to mention the pass includes parking, water park admission, early ride times, discounts on food and merch, bring-a-friend days and other perks like free FastLane.

That Value Comparison is looking really one-sided!

You must missed my pass comparison post 2 pages back.. But, what pass do you have that includes the Fast Lane? It's not even in a Platinum pass. I just checked renewal prices and they are a lot lower compared to what they were last spring. $99, Fun Pix looks like it went up $5..I hope that means they we have more locations than just the one at the entrance, and the refill cup only went up $1 over this year. That's a win! I expected it to be higher with Winterfest next year. I think the value of a KI pass is incredible. I also think the value of a WDW pass is incredible. Just to be clear though, most attractions are not open during Winterfest...I'm excited for it..but this isn't Orlando, outdoor roller coaster do not run during the winter.

 

[lebeau]

You must missed my pass comparison post 2 pages back.. But, what pass do you have that includes the Fast Lane? It's not even in a Platinum pass. I just checked renewal prices and they are a lot lower compared to what they were last spring. $99, Fun Pix looks like it went up $5..I hope that means they we have more locations than just the one at the entrance, and the refill cup only went up $1 over this year. That's a win! I expected it to be higher with Winterfest next year. I think the value of a KI pass is incredible. I also think the value of a WDW pass is incredible. Just to be clear though, most attractions are not open during Winterfest...I'm excited for it..but this isn't Orlando, outdoor roller coaster do not run during the winter.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to ride roller coasters during an Ohio winter. But it'll be nice to have WF back next year.

I was vague on FL and left it as an "other perk" because I don't think it has been announced yet for this year. But for the last two years, if you renewed your pass in October they gave you free FL for one Sunday. It's not unlimited, but it's a nice perk. Usually makes for a great end of the season. They have also been doing things like special passholder preview nights. I agree that a KI pass is an unbelievable bargain.

For me, a WDW pass would be a complete waste of money. I don't get down there enough. I know locals who are letting their passes lapse, so I'm not sure I can agree that they are a value. Obviously, they are if you use them enough to justify the expense. I'm just not sure that holds up for all that many people any more.

That holds true across the board. Value is in the eye of the beholder. I expect a lot of folks around here will always see WDW as a value. I can't help but compare current Disney to its past. From that point of view, it stopped being a value a long time ago.

 

[lebeau]

I think one day vs. one day, the money spent overall could be the same.

The last time someone I knew bought an undiscounted ticket to Kings Island was... never. Discounts are plentiful as long as you don't just show up and buy a ticket at the gate.

If anyone spends the same amount on a day at KI that they would have to spend for a day at WDW (ignoring the expenses of travel and lodging that don't apply for a local amusement park), they haven't done so much as a Google search. You'd have to go out of your way to make them cost the same.

 

[21stamps]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to ride roller coasters during an Ohio winter. But it'll be nice to have WF back next year.

I was vague on FL and left it as an "other perk" because I don't think it has been announced yet for this year. But for the last two years, if you renewed your pass in October they gave you free FL for one Sunday. It's not unlimited, but it's a nice perk. Usually makes for a great end of the season. They have also been doing things like special passholder preview nights. I agree that a KI pass is an unbelievable bargain.

For me, a WDW pass would be a complete waste of money. I don't get down there enough. I know locals who are letting their passes lapse, so I'm not sure I can agree that they are a value. Obviously, they are if you use them enough to justify the expense. I'm just not sure that holds up for all that many people any more.

That holds true across the board. Value is in the eye of the beholder. I expect a lot of folks around here will always see WDW as a value. I can't help but compare current Disney to its past. From that point of view, it stopped being a value a long time ago.

I need to start renewing my pass in October and not wait til Spring! My kid is too young for Fear Fest, so in October we go once for the Soak City Haloween stuff and that's about it. Now that he's 48" (Yay!) the FL on a Sunday would be great. My issue with them was that for the last 3 years, my kid age 3-6 has been the same price as my pass, but still a great value. This year I was kind of angry when we went on Opening Day and I found out there had been a "preview night" the night before. We had gone to that the last 2 years, but I didn't receive an email this year, so thought they weren't doing it. I was also under the impression that FunPix would bring more "photogs", that's how it was advertised anyway. Basically for the first 2 months I have pics of my son at the gate, and us on Woodstock Express. Now we do have photos on the Beast and Vortex as of July when he was tall enough.
Again, it's still all worth the money! Except for the dining plan, it does not fit the way we eat at all, so I don't purchase it. If they added blue ice cream and funnel cakes I'd be all over it.lol.

As far as a WDW AP, for example- my trip this year is not discounted. I've done the math and even if it's a 25% instead of 30% pass holder discount offered at the resort we are staying at, I will still save $200 overall.

 

[21stamps]

The last time someone I knew bought an undiscounted ticket to Kings Island was... never. Discounts are plentiful as long as you don't just show up and buy a ticket at the gate.

If anyone spends the same amount on a day at KI that they would have to spend for a day at WDW (ignoring the expenses of travel and lodging that don't apply for a local amusement park), they haven't done so much as a Google search. You'd have to go out of your way to make them cost the same.

I know quite a few people, coworkers, who only go once per season. They buy the FL+ bundle, I think it's around $130 per person plus parking. They do the Slingshot and Sky Flyer and play games. Then come back complaining that they just spent several hundred dollars at KI.lol. When I went to Cedar Point (I don't have a Platinum pass) I spent at least $200 on/at the park on just myself, and their hotels are not cheap.

I don't think I've ever gone to Kings Island and spent less than $50, if staying for more than 2 hours. If we're there the majority of the day then it's at least $100. I drink Starbucks though, we've done the slingshot or sky flyer every visit since my son hit 48", and we always get ice cream, funnel cake sundae (this one we split) and I have never got out of there without buying fudge and caramel apples, now a Pokemon apple for my son. I've put an "every other visit" rule on games now though. It was just getting too crazy.

I think, because of how I spend at KI, that Disney isn't "as" shocking.lol. We don't play games at Disney parks. I can go to MK, get a Mickey Bar $5? (Don't quote me), and be fine without doing any extras in the park. When you add the character meals then it changes drastically, but before my son I was never doing character meals, or any table service in the parks. I just want to make it clear that I do NOT think Disney is cheap. Not in the slightest, but for what you get compared to KI or CP, I think the price - value ratio is justified.

 

[lebeau]

I need to start renewing my pass in October and not wait til Spring! My kid is too young for Fear Fest, so in October we go once for the Soak City Haloween stuff and that's about it. Now that he's 48" (Yay!) the FL on a Sunday would be great. My issue with them was that for the last 3 years, my kid age 3-6 has been the same price as my pass, but still a great value. This year I was kind of angry when we went on Opening Day and I found out there had been a "preview night" the night before. We had gone to that the last 2 years, but I didn't receive an email this year, so thought they weren't doing it. I was also under the impression that FunPix would bring more "photogs", that's how it was advertised anyway. Basically for the first 2 months I have pics of my son at the gate, and us on Woodstock Express. Now we do have photos on the Beast and Vortex as of July when he was tall enough.
Again, it's still all worth the money! Except for the dining plan, it does not fit the way we eat at all, so I don't purchase it. If they added blue ice cream and funnel cakes I'd be all over it.lol.

As far as a WDW AP, for example- my trip this year is not discounted. I've done the math and even if it's a 25% instead of 30% pass holder discount offered at the resort we are staying at, I will still save $200 overall.

We didn't get FunPix, but it seemed to us like there were fewer photographers out at the gate this year and that was okay by us. Usually, we always get stopped and pose for a picture we won't ever look at. But this year, that didn't happen at all. The price for FunPix seemed decent if you wanted to get your picture taken at KI. But I decided to take a pass on that.

Like you, the dining plan doesn't work for us. I know people who eat a lot of meals there and for them it is a great deal. If we eat at the park, it's usually a snack (with the GP discount of course). One of the advantages of a local park over Disney is if I get hungry, I can drive 5 minutes to lots of very convenient inexpensive dining establishments. Also, since we're passholders, we can make short visits and don't feel like we have to spend the entire day at the park. When you get hungry, you leave. This is part of why comparisons don't really work. I will say I thought food service was KI's biggest failing. The lines are long, the food is mediocre and the prices are about the same as Disney's.

If you're going to renew your passes, do it early. They cost less and you get extra perks like preview night and some years free FL. We don't always take advantage of these perks (we skipped preview night this year) but they are nice to have.

Getting back to WDW, can't you usually get a 20-30% discount off a Disney hotel room without a pass? I can usually do better than what is being offered to passholders. I would never pay rack rates for a Disney room. Fromm what I hear from passholders, the room discounts used to be worth buying passes for, but that hasn't been true in ages.