does anyone know exactly what happened? i mean, did the train derail, or what happened to take the life of that man, and injure the rest?
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The Big Thunder Incident
- Thread starter mkepcotmgmak
- Start date
From what I've read, in a nutshell, the locomotive became detached from the rest of the train and partially derailed (I think just one wheel). But apparently they aren't sure about the cause and effect here. They don't know if this detachment/derailment caused the accident or if the accident caused the detachment/derailment. I'm no engineer, but based on pure speculation, I would guess that the first event was that the locomotive somehow became detached due to wear or some malfunction (only because this is not the first time this has happened on a Disney coaster). It probably ran separated from the rest of the train for a few seconds and then upon entering the tunnel a sudden twist in the track caused the locomotive to slow down just enough in relation to the rest of the train that the latter bumped into the first (again, not the first time this has occured on a Disney coaster). This collision was probably just enough to slightly knock the locomotive partially off the track, which would logically have stopped it. Since the train would still have been fully railed and moving, it would have created a sudden harsh impact at about 30 mph into the locomotive. Without getting too graphic, it is not hard to imagine this would have easily killed the passenger sitting in the front row.
My question is this: Why is it that we never hear of this type of thing happening at Six Flags or other parks. Disneyland is supposed to be famous for safety but it's the only park where I've heard of this thing happening. Sure, there've been accidents at other parks, but none that I know of have involved coasters derailing. It happened just a few years ago on Space Mountain at Disneyland.
My question is this: Why is it that we never hear of this type of thing happening at Six Flags or other parks. Disneyland is supposed to be famous for safety but it's the only park where I've heard of this thing happening. Sure, there've been accidents at other parks, but none that I know of have involved coasters derailing. It happened just a few years ago on Space Mountain at Disneyland.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think Six Flags really does have "a lot of accidents" though, do they? I was reading one of the news sites that was talking about the Big Thunder incident and it mentioned that Disneyland, in the past few years, has really developed a very poor safety record in the industry.
This was on the Theme Park Insider web site (the story on the web site has links which refer to reported ride malfunctions and accidents in recent years at the park):
This is the third catastrophic mechanical failure causing injury on a roller coaster at Disneyland in a little over three years. The two previous incidents happened on Disneyland's now-shuttered Space Mountain coaster.
Such failures are extremely rare in the theme park industry. Almost always, injury accidents are the result of human error -- most commonly the fault of the rider but occasionally the fault of a ride operator.
This level of mechanical failure on roller coasters at a single major theme park is unprecedented, to my memory. And these are not the only recent major accidents at the Disneyland Resort. California Adventure's Mulholland Madness coaster injured multiple riders after its opening, before CalOSHA forced Disney to shut down the ride and make repairs. And in two other highly publicized incidents, a child was permanently disabled on Disneyland's Roger Rabbit ride (an incident CalOSHA attributed to ride design flaws) and a man was killed on the Sailing Ship Columbia dock after an untrained supervisor moored the ship, ripping a cleat from its deck which then flew into the waiting crowd.
Clearly, a dangerous pattern has been established at Disneyland. Since former Disneyland President Paul Pressler assumed control of the resort and began cutting costs, fans have complained about poor maintenance at the park, citing peeling and faded paint, burnt light bulbs and other superficial flaws. This most recent accident, coupled with the incidents at Space Mountain, will surely raise additional, far more serious questions, about Disneyland's attention to mechanical maintenance over the past several years.
This is the third catastrophic mechanical failure causing injury on a roller coaster at Disneyland in a little over three years. The two previous incidents happened on Disneyland's now-shuttered Space Mountain coaster.
Such failures are extremely rare in the theme park industry. Almost always, injury accidents are the result of human error -- most commonly the fault of the rider but occasionally the fault of a ride operator.
This level of mechanical failure on roller coasters at a single major theme park is unprecedented, to my memory. And these are not the only recent major accidents at the Disneyland Resort. California Adventure's Mulholland Madness coaster injured multiple riders after its opening, before CalOSHA forced Disney to shut down the ride and make repairs. And in two other highly publicized incidents, a child was permanently disabled on Disneyland's Roger Rabbit ride (an incident CalOSHA attributed to ride design flaws) and a man was killed on the Sailing Ship Columbia dock after an untrained supervisor moored the ship, ripping a cleat from its deck which then flew into the waiting crowd.
Clearly, a dangerous pattern has been established at Disneyland. Since former Disneyland President Paul Pressler assumed control of the resort and began cutting costs, fans have complained about poor maintenance at the park, citing peeling and faded paint, burnt light bulbs and other superficial flaws. This most recent accident, coupled with the incidents at Space Mountain, will surely raise additional, far more serious questions, about Disneyland's attention to mechanical maintenance over the past several years.
i did a report on rollercoaster safety my senior year in high school back in 2000 - and six flags has a LOT of injuries/fatalaties that no one hears of, why, becuase like stated earlier, they are not the top in their game. this will really affect disney becuase they are the top... only the biggest celebrities get harrassed, because no one cares about people who aren't all that famous. My dearest sympathies go out to the family of the man who lost his life over this, and all the innocent guests who suffer injuries, but at the same time, this will bring a lot of specualtion over disney's safety standards, and will hopefully wake some people up on this matter.
Where did you get the information for your research? Just curious as I'm interested in finding out how Six Flags and the others compare. I always have felt pretty safe on roller coasters because I've always heard that statistically they are pretty safe. Can you point me to any good web sites on the topic?
I went the Consumer Product Safety Commission web site (www.cpsc.gov) to see what I could find on theme park safety. I had to drill pretty deep into the web site and download a .pdf file, but here's some information I found on Six Flags:
"Analysis of first aide station data from five Six Flags parks, representing approximately 25% of all attendance for Six Flags parks for the years 1999 to 2001 showed that only 6% of all patrons complaining of injuries at the parks requested or required transport to a medical facility outside the park. Analysis of nine years of data from one park showed that only 5.8% of those transported from the park required hospitalization.
"The injury rate for Six Flags patrons requiring or requesting transport to a medical facility outside the park was found to be seven injuries per million park attendees (.0007%), with an estimated one serious injury (requiring overnight hospital stay), per 2.6 million park attendees (.00004%).
"The injury rate for Six Flags roller coaster patrons requiring or requesting transport to a medical facility outside the park was found to be one injury per million rides (.0001%). Serious injuries requiring an overnight stay at the hospital would be even lower".
The report doesn't mention Disney but Six Flags is mentioned throughout and seems to be presented as a model of theme park safety. That's why I'm wondering where you might have gotten the information for your report to support the claim that Six Flags has "a LOT of injuries/fatalities".
Does anyone else know of any reports on park safety? I've read in a number of sources that Disney tends to be less than forthcoming regarding the safety records of their parks. Just wondering if there might be some more solid data on this that has been made available publicly.
PLEASE NOTE: I'm not trying to slam Disney or take the side of Six Flags or any other parks. Just trying to illustrate some unbiased facts and see if anyone else has any others (along with sources they can provide). Keep in mind the above is not merely some sensationalized news story. It is from a credible source (Consumer Product Safety Commission) and you can easily go to their web site and check it out for yourself.
CHAPPS
Account Suspended
Here's a site that gives accident data at all theme parks and amusement parks. If you compare the NUMBER of accidents at Disney parks, and also the TYPES of accidents at Disney parks, to those at Six Flags, it's true Disney does not come out looking all that safe by comparison. Very shocking and disturbing. The site also has some pretty credible sources for their data.
http://www.saferparks.org/
http://www.saferparks.org/
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Here's what I think what happened:
Mice Age has said that the accident took place in the last tunnel where the train turns a sharp corner and enters a collapsing mine. When the locomotive went around the curve, one of the wheels might've fallen off and the front of the locomotive jamed into the track and back ended into the car with people behind it killing the one man that was there and injuring the 1o others.
Mice Age has said that the accident took place in the last tunnel where the train turns a sharp corner and enters a collapsing mine. When the locomotive went around the curve, one of the wheels might've fallen off and the front of the locomotive jamed into the track and back ended into the car with people behind it killing the one man that was there and injuring the 1o others.
im sorry, but i do not have my sources. i know most came from magazine and newspaper articles from probably 7 years ago, seeing that the paper was written in 2000 and the articles weren't recent then... but i do know that a lot of six flags and other theme parks fly under the radar too... i mean, they can buy media off sometimes so their attendance doesn't drop, but some people say that disney's injuries are higher than other parks, well you have to look at that statistically, i mean, if you say one out of every 500 visitors at any theme park will be injured (made up statistic) then disney has more visitors than ANY other park, so statistically they have to have more injuries, just the way it works... but seeing this, Disney should do more to prevent it, but then again, they could be doing their best?
I think you're right that around 7 years ago (actually maybe even a little longer ago than that) Six Flags seemed to be having more safety problems. This is just my perception because it seems like I remember occasionally hearing news stories about Six Flags accidents a little more frequently back then. I think what happened was they really cleaned up their act as a result. According to what I've been reading though, Disneyland has definitely overtaken the other major theme parks in terms of serious accidents. I agree that the more people you have then logically the more accidents you're going to have. Except the one flaw with that logic is that most of Disneyland's accidents involved their actual attractions, rather than rider error as with other parks. Disneyland certainly doesn't have more roller coasters than ANY Six Flags park so if you look at it that way it kinda makes it even MORE alarming. Consider: Disneyland Park has 4 roller coasters. In the past three years, they've had three serious injuries on two of them (50% of their coasters), one fatal and all three due to mechanical error. Six Flags Magic Mountain, by comparison, has 13 roller coasters and not a single serious injury due to ride malfunction or otherwise in at LEAST three years. Check the CPSC web site. You'll see what I mean.
origianlly posted by merlin
I think you're right that around 7 years ago (actually maybe even a little longer ago than that) Six Flags seemed to be having more safety problems. This is just my perception because it seems like I remember occasionally hearing news stories about Six Flags accidents a little more frequently back then. I think what happened was they really cleaned up their act as a result. According to what I've been reading though, Disneyland has definitely overtaken the other major theme parks in terms of serious accidents. I agree that the more people you have then logically the more accidents you're going to have. Except the one flaw with that logic is that most of Disneyland's accidents involved their actual attractions, rather than rider error as with other parks. Disneyland certainly doesn't have more roller coasters than ANY Six Flags park so if you look at it that way it kinda makes it even MORE alarming. Consider: Disneyland Park has 4 roller coasters. In the past three years, they've had three serious injuries on two of them (50% of their coasters), one fatal and all three due to mechanical error. Six Flags Magic Mountain, by comparison, has 13 roller coasters and not a single serious injury due to ride malfunction or otherwise in at LEAST three years. Check the CPSC web site. You'll see what I mean.
good point.
I think you're right that around 7 years ago (actually maybe even a little longer ago than that) Six Flags seemed to be having more safety problems. This is just my perception because it seems like I remember occasionally hearing news stories about Six Flags accidents a little more frequently back then. I think what happened was they really cleaned up their act as a result. According to what I've been reading though, Disneyland has definitely overtaken the other major theme parks in terms of serious accidents. I agree that the more people you have then logically the more accidents you're going to have. Except the one flaw with that logic is that most of Disneyland's accidents involved their actual attractions, rather than rider error as with other parks. Disneyland certainly doesn't have more roller coasters than ANY Six Flags park so if you look at it that way it kinda makes it even MORE alarming. Consider: Disneyland Park has 4 roller coasters. In the past three years, they've had three serious injuries on two of them (50% of their coasters), one fatal and all three due to mechanical error. Six Flags Magic Mountain, by comparison, has 13 roller coasters and not a single serious injury due to ride malfunction or otherwise in at LEAST three years. Check the CPSC web site. You'll see what I mean.
good point.
I imagine y'all have heard the latest on the tragedy, that it couldve been prevented, etc. With that in mind, I just hope that Eisner & Co get sued for every d@mn penny possible in this case. Why anybody who likes Disney still supports him is beyond me. One can argue about the d@mn "technicalities" till their heads hurt, but bottom line:
budget cuts=poor attraction/ride maintenance=greater chance for injury=risking the companys name being tarnished=in the case of Disney, tarnished even further.
What's even worse is that Eisner and all his Armani wearing pals in TDA and Burbank are all probably wondering why this happened. If everything was all working by the book, it'd be one thing. But it wasn't. Due to budget cuts in order to enlarge Eisner's pocketbook, lives were lost. This tragedy on Big Thunder Mountain was no "sudden accident."
I hope that someday, Eisner gets what's coming to him. And I don't mean a larger present, er, "raise," from his Board of Directors.
budget cuts=poor attraction/ride maintenance=greater chance for injury=risking the companys name being tarnished=in the case of Disney, tarnished even further.
What's even worse is that Eisner and all his Armani wearing pals in TDA and Burbank are all probably wondering why this happened. If everything was all working by the book, it'd be one thing. But it wasn't. Due to budget cuts in order to enlarge Eisner's pocketbook, lives were lost. This tragedy on Big Thunder Mountain was no "sudden accident."
I hope that someday, Eisner gets what's coming to him. And I don't mean a larger present, er, "raise," from his Board of Directors.
i want to say that you are being too harsh, but what exactly happened? i have yet to hear how this could have been provented due to cutbacks or anything else... please fill me in.
While the BTMR one is still not totally clear, it doesn't help that this is the third of this type of incident in recent memory, at a time when budgets are being slashed at an astounding rate and, as a trikkling effect, company morale isn't exactly all hunkey-dorey. The BTM tragedy should be a wake up call for Eisner & Co. We don't know what happened for certain, but poor maintenance seems most likely for now.
And despite the fact that it was or wasn't, the fact that almost everyone suspects that it was should be a wake-up call.
Just incase the incidents with Columbia and Space Mountain weren't.
And despite the fact that it was or wasn't, the fact that almost everyone suspects that it was should be a wake-up call.
Just incase the incidents with Columbia and Space Mountain weren't.