Technical parade questions

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

The MSEP that runs in the MK now is (mostly) the original parade from Disneyland.

There were two nearly identical parades built back in the 70's, one for each coast. (I believe Disneyland's opened first, but it was based on the original Electric Water Pageant in WDW)

When Florida got Spectromagic in the early-90's, their copy of MSEP was shipped off to Paris. *That* copy of the parade has never returned to Florida, and probably has never returned to the US at all.

Since that point, every time the MSEP has appeared in Florida, it's been Disneyland's copy. They got it in the late-90's when Spectro went on an extended refurb and Disneyland debuted the ill-fated Light Magic. When it was done in Florida, it went back to California to help boost DCA's low numbers. And now it's back in Florida again, since DCA can't run both MSEP and World of Color at the same time (at least for the time being).

-Rob

Thanks Rob... I just looked it up on youtube. Imagine if all that was combine with Spectro Magic. take out 2 of the 3 sleeping beauty floats, keep the peacock and add in Alice in Wonderland for crying out loud. And while they are at it add in the 4 swans and the Dumbo scene . I know I need to shut up and start working at disney LOL. I would say they should just use that parade again but then you don't want to spoil the magic. I cant even stand to hear the Spectro Horns without getting sick I have seen that parade so many times. Hopefully 2 years will cure that.

I know one parade had different Pinokkio floats and an underwater scene float pretty similar to the Little Mermaid floats. For all we know it is probably the same float only refurbished. My mom said back in the 70's she saw the pleasure island float with the big face in the front. I thought I heard somewhere that the Pinokkio floats they have today were from paris. I have to ask my Grandpa, he has recorded every inch of Disney and I wouldn't doubt he has some really old and interesting footage. He probably has video of that parade. I have a full Spectro Magic video with the crackhead Spectromen with the fiberoptic hair and Roger Rabbit on the music float. I am going to upload it one of these days.

 

[spectrodanny]

The MSEP that runs in the MK now is (mostly) the original parade from Disneyland.

There were two nearly identical parades built back in the 70's, one for each coast. (I believe Disneyland's opened first, but it was based on the original Electric Water Pageant in WDW)

When Florida got Spectromagic in the early-90's, their copy of MSEP was shipped off to Paris. *That* copy of the parade has never returned to Florida, and probably has never returned to the US at all.

Since that point, every time the MSEP has appeared in Florida, it's been Disneyland's copy. They got it in the late-90's when Spectro went on an extended refurb and Disneyland debuted the ill-fated Light Magic. When it was done in Florida, it went back to California to help boost DCA's low numbers. And now it's back in Florida again, since DCA can't run both MSEP and World of Color at the same time (at least for the time being).

-Rob

Actually Florida's copy (minus Small Wporld which was retired due to budget cuts a few years after the parade began in Paris as well as the To Honor America unit) DID return to Florida breifly but only to Central Shops for refurbishment & re-crating for it's trip to Hong Kong where last i heard it was sitting backstage in hong kong satill unopened (that was about 3 years ago) all in all there were 3 complete versions of the classic Main Street Electrical Parade (1 for Disneyland which featured upgraded 3D versions of most of the fkloats from the '72-'74 incarnation , the 2nd version was WDW's & the third was Tokyo's for the most part the version in Paris was all former WDW floats until '97 when the Swan floats from Tokyo were added, followed a year later by the same version (- pixie trails) of the Dwarf Mine & Pleasure Island units seen in the current version @ Magic Kingdom

 

[LongballMG]

there might actually have been 4 versions

The Hercules Electrical Parade which was built for a 1 day run in New York City.

 

[spectrodanny]

oops your right there WERE techinically 4 versions although the Hercules floats were basically a one night add-on to the floats from Disneyland's parade.
as for the Little Mermaid float in spectro being recycled from the MSEP, while it looks similar, all the floats for Spectro were brand new when it debuted. nothing except for maybe the To Honor America drive unit being placed onm Chernabog was used in both parades

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

there might actually have been 4 versions

The Hercules Electrical Parade which was built for a 1 day run in New York City.

Where did the Hercules floats go. If they had a parade built for that one event they would be disbursed all over the city as window displays. The Fairy would be in Macy's and the Pleasure Island Floats would be in Planet Hollywood. I hope it comes back there again, I would love just to take an hour train ride to the city and see one of my childhood memories perform at a place so close to home. I still wonder how they worked out the sound. I saw that on TV when I was a kid and I remember them saying they replaced all the light bulbs for the travel from california and then it was going to Disney World.

 

[Rob562]

They wired up speakers all along the parade route.

Video from that parade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeDX62jPz3Q

-Rob

 

[disney9752]

I think you don't see as many cm's out to guide the floats as msep doesn't have as many bulky loooooooooooooooong floats like spectro does, nor the same floats with sooooooooooooo many characters walking along with them that need cm's out there with them, for their safety & guests :wave:

 

[Timon]

I just read today read that they are no longer using the pucks in 06. Weather its true or not I do not know. Raven said they use them, Raven is pretty on top with these things so I cant really tell now LOL. Maybe they work with the DTMF system, hope this helped. I do notice that the music is better synchronized now then it used to be.

Pucks are long gone. The old Neve board fried and they used some Yamaha boards as back up but for several years they have been using a DEC system very similar to what Disneyland uses. It was installed by the DL team that pioneered the system although the MK has 33 zones vs DL 13 and had to be expanded. There is talk of a GPS float tracking system but until then they have a system that counts wheel turns on each float and isn't as accurate as the old puck system. The magnetic pucks were in the pavement and the sensor was on the float which radioed back their location and the speed was figured and displayed on a monitor showing each named float and whether it was running fast,slow or stopped. Re-pavement projects played havoc with the system. Recently they added wireless microphones to the parade route which while helping groups like the Dapper Dans during the day may someday play a role in a parade since you can walk the length of the route and not loose signal. There are five cameras used along the parade route - MS RR Station, Castle, HOP, Pecos 1 fixed looking to LS and Pecos 2 looking to the Frontierland gate.

 

[Phonedave]

OK, DTMF is a new one to me.

Anyone care to elaborate.

The only DTMF I am familiar with is Dual Tone Multi Frequency which is old tech in-band signaling in Class 5e telephone switches. Somehow I don't think thats what we are talking about here.

-dave

 

[Rob562]

Maybe they meant SMPTE, but I could envision a proprietary audio system using a separate track with just DTMF tones on it to send signals to remote locations to control audio, lighting, etc.

-Rob

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

They wired up speakers all along the parade route.

Video from that parade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeDX62jPz3Q

-Rob

You can tell its was loud there LOL. Probably the most thrilling Electrical Experience ever. I hope it comes back NYC for a visit.

I think you don't see as many cm's out to guide the floats as msep doesn't have as many bulky loooooooooooooooong floats like spectro does, nor the same floats with sooooooooooooo many characters walking along with them that need cm's out there with them, for their safety & guests :wave:

I have a feeling that parade is going to stay as long as the recession. Spectro Macig seems expensive.

Pucks are long gone. The old Neve board fried and they used some Yamaha boards as back up but for several years they have been using a DEC system very similar to what Disneyland uses. It was installed by the DL team that pioneered the system although the MK has 33 zones vs DL 13 and had to be expanded. There is talk of a GPS float tracking system but until then they have a system that counts wheel turns on each float and isn't as accurate as the old puck system. The magnetic pucks were in the pavement and the sensor was on the float which radioed back their location and the speed was figured and displayed on a monitor showing each named float and whether it was running fast,slow or stopped. Re-pavement projects played havoc with the system. Recently they added wireless microphones to the parade route which while helping groups like the Dapper Dans during the day may someday play a role in a parade since you can walk the length of the route and not loose signal. There are five cameras used along the parade route - MS RR Station, Castle, HOP, Pecos 1 fixed looking to LS and Pecos 2 looking to the Frontierland gate.

I remember a couple of time watching Spectro Magic some of the floats went abnormally fast. The Spectromen blew past us before the intro ended. Sp pretty much everyone was hearing the Spectro horns, the intro music, Jimminy Cricket and the background music. Its not a pretty sound.

 

[Timon]

I remember a couple of time watching Spectro Magic some of the floats went abnormally fast. The Spectromen blew past us before the intro ended. Sp pretty much everyone was hearing the Spectro horns, the intro music, Jimminy Cricket and the background music. Its not a pretty sound.

Unfortunately the last year or so of Spectro was a transition time where the old parade audio system was wearing out, then replaced with temporary equipment and finally a long test & adjust period on DECs. The new system is a works in progress, recently it gained lighting control, specifically the Donald Duck M&G. This would be a first step to larger lighting control over future parades & entertainment. They have control over many things like building lighting, windows to reveal parade speakers, various parade lights and all the BGM. It takes time and money to upgrade old vintage systems with more advanced technologies.

 

[Phonedave]

Maybe they meant SMPTE, but I could envision a proprietary audio system using a separate track with just DTMF tones on it to send signals to remote locations to control audio, lighting, etc.

-Rob

Seems a bit convolute to run a seperate track with DTMF- telephony (in this country) does not even do that. It's all SS7 out of band signaling.

Much easier to set up a master clock, slave all the other controllers off of it and work with a more modern signaling system such as a MIDI controller or as you said SMPTE.


Ah, ha - I did some Googling and found the below. Since he gets the definition of DTMF wrong I wonder where he got his info from (but then it could just be a typo). DTMF seems, at least to me, a little kludgy, but I guess it works for them. So the on board audio track plays, hits a encoded DTFM cue, broadcasts it, it is picked up by a MIDI controller when then initiates it own sequence. Makes sense.

-dave




The "Pucks" at WDW no longer work. They haven't worked since Jan of 06. They now sync the audio through RF transmissions using DTMF Tones.

DTMF tones (Dual Tone Modified Frequency) is whats used in touch tone telephones. DTMF is whats used to sync the audio for SpectroMagic and Disney's Electrical Parade and most other Disney Parades. The floats have on-board computers that hold the audio as digitally encoded information. The floats initiate there own audio cues. All the lighting, audio and special effects are timed via SMTPE or MIDI Timecode. The lighting, and special effects are tied to the audio. On the audio track itself, marks are put in the track where the designers want the lighting to do something or the special effects to do something. This same thing can be uses in stage shows. Fantasmic is run via MIDI Timecode. The lighting, pyro, etc is all timed to the audio track.

The day parade just uses a audio playback unit on-board that keeps the audio going, while the DTMF syncs it to the parade theme audio track. All the units project there own audio while the zone speakers play the parade theme.

The SpectroMagic units and the Disney Electrical Parade units, have PLC's (Programmable Logic Controllers) on board that help animate the special effects along with monitoring the chase units and lighting control unit.

The floats are DC powered and run on batteries, more specifically Deep Cycle Batteries. These batteries are used because charging and discharging is frequently done.

These are schematics of the units control and DTMF systems.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

A couple more questions to throw out there,
-In martins vid's he showed 6 startup zones, were those the points where the music changes as well or are there sound zones within those 6 sections?
-Did Spectro magic get new LED lights towards the end, they looked dimmer?
-Do they reverse he parade route?

 

[spectrodanny]

-Do they reverse he parade route?

There have been occasions where the route was reversed. According to a float driver who drove floats in WDW's original MSEP as well as Spectro, on nights when their were two parades, the first would step off from Town Square and the 2nd from Frontierland. sometime after Spectro started they stuck with the current TS-Frontierland route. when Disneyland's floats came to WDW the first time, the route was reversed at least once when the bulk of the Electrical Parade was performed for the taping of the 1999 Christmas Parade

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

Now why in the world did they make those units so cheap lol, all I hear issues with those units, not much that I notice but I do hear about it

 

[WDWVito]

Well, this is older tech...but still interesting to watch.

Sorry if it was posted before.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

Well, this is older tech...but still interesting to watch.

Sorry if it was posted before.

Awesome, thanks for posting. I haven't seen this video in a couple of years but this is what got me fascinated with the light parades LOL. This parade has allot of sentimental value. I hope it runs forever, but I really with they would bring back the old music and add more units.