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Team Villains - Stanza V: Patch 'Em Up
- Thread starter D Hulk
- Start date
kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
Very happy we got Dollywood - the only park I’ve been to on the lost. Silly heroes played right to our strengths!
On a completely unrelated note, my friends and I had snowball fights for the past hour in the snow like a bunch of 10 year olds, so I’m going to call it a night. I’ll get on brainstorming in the morning with fresh ideas!
AceAstro
Well-Known Member
Awesome!! Dollywood was the one to me thag I am the most interested in of the eight.
As a scheduling note, I have a midterm in 12 hours worth 30% and I know nothing
because of that, I’ll be almost entirely unavailable. After that is done however, I’m on break so can really get into whatever we decide to do!!
And that is why evil shall always triumph, because good is dumb.Very happy we got Dollywood - the only park I’ve been to on the lost. Silly heroes played right to our strengths!
On a completely unrelated note, my friends and I had snowball fights for the past hour in the snow like a bunch of 10 year olds, so I’m going to call it a night. I’ll get on brainstorming in the morning with fresh ideas!
Perhaps when I get home from my local pub (@James G.) I’ll offer up some general thoughts on the parks. Of this list, I’ve been to Kennywood and Morey’s Piers. Don’t think anybody has been to Lagoon! I’m so so so glad we didn’t get Hersheypark...foolish Heroes!
Park assessments:
Dollywood - This looks like the strongest, most rounded park. It has intangibles most others lack, from great shows and award-winning food to great low-key theming and great cast members. They even have a hotel. What Dollywood lacks most substantially, especially with its family focus, is at least one dark ride. Their most expensive ever expansion, 2019’s Wildwood Grove, is child-focused and charming like a more high-toned Camp Snoopy, but I think something grander would be needed to make it a must-(re)do attraction for out-of-state families. Their coaster collection is very strong at 7, as there are no duds, but if we can ID some blind spots in that lineup there let’s do so. The general theme is genteel Southern with a country music infusion, which given our budget is a topic we could effortlessly play with. You both are most passionate about this place, so I’ll leave them to you. (I’ll happily create a coaster or two if desired. You know I’ve been obsessing over those lately.)
Lagoon - This park is practically a blank slate. How generic are they? Their 1920s wood coaster is simply named “Roller Coaster.” They’re basically a good ride collection in a picturesque Utah location. No theme, few standouts. They only entered nationwide attention very recently with their in-house coaster Cannibal, a Gerstlauer knockoff which is the only coaster over 200’ tall with a beyond-vertical drop. It looks nuts! (Friends who’ve done it say so much.) What Lagoon lacks is A) a theme and B) any of the distinctive love which Dollywood supplies. If we could improve dining and shows and place-making in addition to 1 or 2 new E-ticket headliners to gain attention, I feel that the basic DNA of Lagoon allows for nearly ANY ideas! What little theming they have now is in Pioneer Village, a rideless area which seems to be the usual Old West section filtered through early Mormon history. I’m not sure if that subject offers much to work with. Something wholly brand new is a big option here!
Morey’s Piers - Three piers connected by a public boardwalk. Like many a pier park, there is no entry ticket but rather a pay-per-ride system. There is no theme whatsoever. However, the seaside location has a genuinely charming vibe all its own which would be ruined with a Disney approach - best we could hope for is Pixar Pier. One issue they have is that competitors own other attraction facilities in between their piers. We could use some budget to simply purchase those properties, though that wouldn’t create a new tourist draw. That’s something Wildwood lacks - a distinctive headliner draw. Their closest is the Great White wood coaster, which is upper-middle tier maybe at best. Great White’s surrounding Adventure Pier has nearly nothing else of note, so I propose we begin by looking there. Replace that pier’s other attractions (mostly up-charge space-fillers) with something noteworthy. Perhaps we could look to the lost history of nearby Coney Island. A spiritual recreation of such a spot could attract residents from surrounding states, especially New York. Additionally, Wildwood has no luxury hotel options, so if Morey’s could offer something like that they could become an overnight tri-state destination.
Kennywood - They ooze an old-school trolley park charm which I wouldn’t want to undermine. I love this park! There are sections which beautifully recreate 19th century amusement parks, and I suspect the wisest route would be to continue in that vein. The park has an overall ambiance which is already a theme in itself, like a preservation of pre-Disneyland design sense. The biggest question is space. Kennywood is extremely landlocked at 80 acres, and 2019’s huge Steelers Country expansion (their priciest, including the record-breaking Iron Curtain coaster) uses the remaining obvious acreage. I propose we look at the parking lot across the street. There is plenty of land there, all of it on slanted terrain which allows for creative ride/coaster design. Replace the existing ski lift transport (used when guests park on the mountaintop) with gondolas and a funicular. Improve the entry gate to match this (their existing entry is akin to a football stadium tunnel). If we can use some of the budget to condense Kennywood’s (free) parking into like a structure, we can expand into the remaining parking space with say a continuation of their vintage trolley park aesthetic. Additionally this park would really benefit from a hotel IMO (something which also eschews that vintage feel), which would immediately label Kennywood as a multi-day destination.
Dollywood - This looks like the strongest, most rounded park. It has intangibles most others lack, from great shows and award-winning food to great low-key theming and great cast members. They even have a hotel. What Dollywood lacks most substantially, especially with its family focus, is at least one dark ride. Their most expensive ever expansion, 2019’s Wildwood Grove, is child-focused and charming like a more high-toned Camp Snoopy, but I think something grander would be needed to make it a must-(re)do attraction for out-of-state families. Their coaster collection is very strong at 7, as there are no duds, but if we can ID some blind spots in that lineup there let’s do so. The general theme is genteel Southern with a country music infusion, which given our budget is a topic we could effortlessly play with. You both are most passionate about this place, so I’ll leave them to you. (I’ll happily create a coaster or two if desired. You know I’ve been obsessing over those lately.)
Lagoon - This park is practically a blank slate. How generic are they? Their 1920s wood coaster is simply named “Roller Coaster.” They’re basically a good ride collection in a picturesque Utah location. No theme, few standouts. They only entered nationwide attention very recently with their in-house coaster Cannibal, a Gerstlauer knockoff which is the only coaster over 200’ tall with a beyond-vertical drop. It looks nuts! (Friends who’ve done it say so much.) What Lagoon lacks is A) a theme and B) any of the distinctive love which Dollywood supplies. If we could improve dining and shows and place-making in addition to 1 or 2 new E-ticket headliners to gain attention, I feel that the basic DNA of Lagoon allows for nearly ANY ideas! What little theming they have now is in Pioneer Village, a rideless area which seems to be the usual Old West section filtered through early Mormon history. I’m not sure if that subject offers much to work with. Something wholly brand new is a big option here!
Morey’s Piers - Three piers connected by a public boardwalk. Like many a pier park, there is no entry ticket but rather a pay-per-ride system. There is no theme whatsoever. However, the seaside location has a genuinely charming vibe all its own which would be ruined with a Disney approach - best we could hope for is Pixar Pier. One issue they have is that competitors own other attraction facilities in between their piers. We could use some budget to simply purchase those properties, though that wouldn’t create a new tourist draw. That’s something Wildwood lacks - a distinctive headliner draw. Their closest is the Great White wood coaster, which is upper-middle tier maybe at best. Great White’s surrounding Adventure Pier has nearly nothing else of note, so I propose we begin by looking there. Replace that pier’s other attractions (mostly up-charge space-fillers) with something noteworthy. Perhaps we could look to the lost history of nearby Coney Island. A spiritual recreation of such a spot could attract residents from surrounding states, especially New York. Additionally, Wildwood has no luxury hotel options, so if Morey’s could offer something like that they could become an overnight tri-state destination.
Kennywood - They ooze an old-school trolley park charm which I wouldn’t want to undermine. I love this park! There are sections which beautifully recreate 19th century amusement parks, and I suspect the wisest route would be to continue in that vein. The park has an overall ambiance which is already a theme in itself, like a preservation of pre-Disneyland design sense. The biggest question is space. Kennywood is extremely landlocked at 80 acres, and 2019’s huge Steelers Country expansion (their priciest, including the record-breaking Iron Curtain coaster) uses the remaining obvious acreage. I propose we look at the parking lot across the street. There is plenty of land there, all of it on slanted terrain which allows for creative ride/coaster design. Replace the existing ski lift transport (used when guests park on the mountaintop) with gondolas and a funicular. Improve the entry gate to match this (their existing entry is akin to a football stadium tunnel). If we can use some of the budget to condense Kennywood’s (free) parking into like a structure, we can expand into the remaining parking space with say a continuation of their vintage trolley park aesthetic. Additionally this park would really benefit from a hotel IMO (something which also eschews that vintage feel), which would immediately label Kennywood as a multi-day destination.
kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly, Dollywood does have a single dark ride which is adventertised as a coaster. It’s called Blazing Fury, and essentially you see scenes of a village on fire and thank the firemen you save it. I think there’s one very small drop - no more scary than pirates.
If we want to Disneyfy this park, what I think it needs is sit-down restaurants in addition to these dark rides. Dollywood has 1 mediocre one.
For a dark ride, so would say potential themes could be animal-watching (to match the Great Eagle winged ride theming) or a county fair (to match the whole subland). How to expand these into full rides? Not 100% sure yet, but I will he later.
Your analysis was of the other parks look awesome. I will definetely have to read more about the parks before I voice major opinions, but your ideas sounded great. Lagoon seems interesting (basically as blue sky as we can get), and the Piers seem very challenging (thanks heroes)
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kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
Here’s another research video for Morey’s Piers. The Jersey Shore is truly a magical place!
A Rum Ham Restaurant would be enough to win us this round!
That was the first episode I’ve seen of the show (I’ve seen like 10 random episodes) and I love it. Maybe we can recreate their bar or the water park from that show where Danny Devito....
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kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
Spent the last hour looking through the 3 parks I am unfamiliar with.
Morey's Piers are awesome. I am a huge fan of the competitive nature of the pier, and I think that buying out rides may not be the move. The jumbled energy is what gives it its appeal. My main question with this park is what is actually owned by the park? Is anything? or is it all just independent rides... I can definitely see a resort working here.
Lagoon and Kennywood - I don't think a resort would work. The reason that it works at Dollywood is that people come to enjoy the Smokey Mountains and spend a day in the park for the kids. Thus, if we want to build a resort, it shouldn't focus on attracting outside guests - rather people close by. When my friends go upto Six Flags, we stay at the water park resort there sometimes. It gives us more to do, while we're in the area. But I don't think tourists to Chicago would stay there often. Same goes for these parks if that makes sense.
Morey's Piers are awesome. I am a huge fan of the competitive nature of the pier, and I think that buying out rides may not be the move. The jumbled energy is what gives it its appeal. My main question with this park is what is actually owned by the park? Is anything? or is it all just independent rides... I can definitely see a resort working here.
Lagoon and Kennywood - I don't think a resort would work. The reason that it works at Dollywood is that people come to enjoy the Smokey Mountains and spend a day in the park for the kids. Thus, if we want to build a resort, it shouldn't focus on attracting outside guests - rather people close by. When my friends go upto Six Flags, we stay at the water park resort there sometimes. It gives us more to do, while we're in the area. But I don't think tourists to Chicago would stay there often. Same goes for these parks if that makes sense.
kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
kennywood ideas - new entranceland. Condense parking lot. Use saved land to create crowd-bringers.
Dollywood ideas - water park expansion at hotel? dollywood was 2 days for our family and we were out of things to do on day 2.
dark ride expansion?
restaurant expansion?
Morey Pier - maybe something on the water? Like a dinner cruise?
hotel expansion
lagoon ideas - something that embraces the beauty of utah's geography
Dollywood ideas - water park expansion at hotel? dollywood was 2 days for our family and we were out of things to do on day 2.
dark ride expansion?
restaurant expansion?
Morey Pier - maybe something on the water? Like a dinner cruise?
hotel expansion
lagoon ideas - something that embraces the beauty of utah's geography
kmbmw777
Well-Known Member
FInal Thoughts before I head out to my Greek Mythology lecture
Dollywood
Dollywood
- I believe a waterpark is the best use of the resources. Online reports that I found estimate a water park costing about 300 a square foot, which seems kind of low. (Source: https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-build-a-water-park) Especially since we're given 250 million.
- This is the one thing that Dollywood is lacking, which would make it a multiple day experience to me.
- Creating a nicer entrance land, across from the main park with the parks new headliner.
- Maybe a hotel. Or maybe license the hotel partnership out to Great Wolf Lodge or something similar, like Six Flags has been doing.
- Boat tours and dinner cruises - the park seems to be aimed towards kids and teenagers, so creating slow activities for adults (like my parents) seems like a must.
- An official hotel.
- This is the park that stumps me. I think it would be wise to give this park a huge overhaul.
- As Dollywood embraces the Smokey Mountains landscape, this should do the same for Utah
- With this retheme, a hotel that offers jeep tours (or something similar) seems like a logical next step.
Dollywood
I like where you’re going with this. Improve specific areas like dark rides and restaurants and water park. Make it a greater draw for families, and turn the resort into a true two-day destination. Dollywood has the best potential for “Disneyfying,” so go that route? I’ll defer to you and @AceAstro to spearhead this project.
Morey’s Piers
Most of my thoughts have gone here. Regarding ownership, everything on the 3 piers (Adventure Pier, Mariner’s Landing, Seaside Pier) belongs to Morey’s, including the rides. The Wildwood Boardwalk is public space like a mall, owned by countless entities. The boardwalk boasts that boundless jumbled-together energy. That extends into the town of Wildwood, which is filled with 50s-era “Doo Wop” architecture – neon starburst motels, plastic palm trees, generally a down-market Rat Pack vibe.
I agree on a dedicated Morey’s resort hotel, to be located on purchased property near the central Mariner’s Landing. Call it Morey’s Doo Wop Hotel, and embrace that mid-century aesthetic. Make it upscale while still fun, using elements from Miami’s Fontainbleau, things like a lounge with glass windows looking into the underwater pools, things like that.
As for the piers, currently I propose a massive rebranding of all three. Remake them in the style of an 1890s-1920s seaside trolley park, with energetic Victorian ambiance to serve as a contrast to the contemporary frenzy of Wildwood. The great seaside parks like Luna Park are all gone now, and a historic-yet-modern revitalization I suspect would appeal to Wildwood’s multi-state tourist clientele.
The 3 piers will rebrand with inspiration from Coney’s long-gone 3 amusement parks: Luna Pier, Dream Pier, Steeplechase Pier. Worthwhile existing attractions like The Great White or the Giant Wheel remain, redecorated for the new style. Worse rides like the Vekoma SLC can be replaced. Let’s take inspiration from past Coney rides – e.g., in Steeplechase Pier we could recreate a vintage steeplechase coaster as a launched racing motorbike coaster. Do a full-on modernized Tunnel of Love. A switchback railway coaster.
Lastly, the 3 piers are separated by ¼ mile of boardwalk each. Presently, Wildwood’s Tramcar provides up-charge transportation. Or you can walk. I propose we build a gondola ride connecting the 3 piers from their outer edges, one gliding over the massive beach, as an alternate way to connect the piers so the boardwalk doesn’t shatter the vibe we’re creating.
Kennywood
Agreed with your assessment that they don’t need a resort. Agreed on reutilizing the parking area as park expansion with an improved entrance and a new headliner. What to theme is all to? What to base it on? Kennywood is the best-preserved historical trolley park still operating, and while it’s logical to continue in that vein (much like my Morey’s proposal), I cannot think of any inland trolley park elements which Kennywood doesn’t already boast. We might need a different but complimentary approach. Their recent additions have been small self-contained lands with themes like Thomas the Tank Engine or the Pittsburgh Steelers. Something else with local Pittsburgh appeal could work, perhaps something tying into the region’s industrial steel history. I’m not yet sure what that could be… Also, our expansion pad would be along a mountain slope. We’ll want things like escalators and funiculars to ease guest traffic.
Additionally, it would be good to up Kennywood’s food game. They have some unique and delicious midway snacks (like their loaded fry stand!) but no noteworthy restaurants. (BTW, Morey’s Piers don’t do food at all. The boardwalk fulfills that need.)
Lagoon
Yeah, they’re basically Blue Sky. Broadly speaking, our focus could be on creating a single immersive land (either from scratch or from existing attractions) which could redefine what Lagoon is and set the direction for future developments.
I’ve looked into local Utah legends. Lagoon’s new(ish) Cannibal coaster seems to be inspired by Alferd Packer, a 19th century Utah maneater who inspired Cannibal: The Musical. Following that dark route, we could make other extreme coasters with like local Native American themes and names like Skinwalker or Wendigo. That’s not very family-friendly however, and for the local Salt Lake audiences I think focusing on family attractions is a better route.
What if we created something which is largely indoors? Something which could be open during Utah’s harsh winters when the rest of Lagoon shuts down? That could inform our creative decisions.
@kmbmw777, you mentioned a Greek Myth class. What about a theme like that? If not that, then perhaps Arthurian legend or dinosaurs or…other IP-free concepts with broad, universal, child-friendly appeal?
I like where you’re going with this. Improve specific areas like dark rides and restaurants and water park. Make it a greater draw for families, and turn the resort into a true two-day destination. Dollywood has the best potential for “Disneyfying,” so go that route? I’ll defer to you and @AceAstro to spearhead this project.
Morey’s Piers
Most of my thoughts have gone here. Regarding ownership, everything on the 3 piers (Adventure Pier, Mariner’s Landing, Seaside Pier) belongs to Morey’s, including the rides. The Wildwood Boardwalk is public space like a mall, owned by countless entities. The boardwalk boasts that boundless jumbled-together energy. That extends into the town of Wildwood, which is filled with 50s-era “Doo Wop” architecture – neon starburst motels, plastic palm trees, generally a down-market Rat Pack vibe.
I agree on a dedicated Morey’s resort hotel, to be located on purchased property near the central Mariner’s Landing. Call it Morey’s Doo Wop Hotel, and embrace that mid-century aesthetic. Make it upscale while still fun, using elements from Miami’s Fontainbleau, things like a lounge with glass windows looking into the underwater pools, things like that.
As for the piers, currently I propose a massive rebranding of all three. Remake them in the style of an 1890s-1920s seaside trolley park, with energetic Victorian ambiance to serve as a contrast to the contemporary frenzy of Wildwood. The great seaside parks like Luna Park are all gone now, and a historic-yet-modern revitalization I suspect would appeal to Wildwood’s multi-state tourist clientele.
The 3 piers will rebrand with inspiration from Coney’s long-gone 3 amusement parks: Luna Pier, Dream Pier, Steeplechase Pier. Worthwhile existing attractions like The Great White or the Giant Wheel remain, redecorated for the new style. Worse rides like the Vekoma SLC can be replaced. Let’s take inspiration from past Coney rides – e.g., in Steeplechase Pier we could recreate a vintage steeplechase coaster as a launched racing motorbike coaster. Do a full-on modernized Tunnel of Love. A switchback railway coaster.
Lastly, the 3 piers are separated by ¼ mile of boardwalk each. Presently, Wildwood’s Tramcar provides up-charge transportation. Or you can walk. I propose we build a gondola ride connecting the 3 piers from their outer edges, one gliding over the massive beach, as an alternate way to connect the piers so the boardwalk doesn’t shatter the vibe we’re creating.
Kennywood
Agreed with your assessment that they don’t need a resort. Agreed on reutilizing the parking area as park expansion with an improved entrance and a new headliner. What to theme is all to? What to base it on? Kennywood is the best-preserved historical trolley park still operating, and while it’s logical to continue in that vein (much like my Morey’s proposal), I cannot think of any inland trolley park elements which Kennywood doesn’t already boast. We might need a different but complimentary approach. Their recent additions have been small self-contained lands with themes like Thomas the Tank Engine or the Pittsburgh Steelers. Something else with local Pittsburgh appeal could work, perhaps something tying into the region’s industrial steel history. I’m not yet sure what that could be… Also, our expansion pad would be along a mountain slope. We’ll want things like escalators and funiculars to ease guest traffic.
Additionally, it would be good to up Kennywood’s food game. They have some unique and delicious midway snacks (like their loaded fry stand!) but no noteworthy restaurants. (BTW, Morey’s Piers don’t do food at all. The boardwalk fulfills that need.)
Lagoon
Yeah, they’re basically Blue Sky. Broadly speaking, our focus could be on creating a single immersive land (either from scratch or from existing attractions) which could redefine what Lagoon is and set the direction for future developments.
I’ve looked into local Utah legends. Lagoon’s new(ish) Cannibal coaster seems to be inspired by Alferd Packer, a 19th century Utah maneater who inspired Cannibal: The Musical. Following that dark route, we could make other extreme coasters with like local Native American themes and names like Skinwalker or Wendigo. That’s not very family-friendly however, and for the local Salt Lake audiences I think focusing on family attractions is a better route.
What if we created something which is largely indoors? Something which could be open during Utah’s harsh winters when the rest of Lagoon shuts down? That could inform our creative decisions.
@kmbmw777, you mentioned a Greek Myth class. What about a theme like that? If not that, then perhaps Arthurian legend or dinosaurs or…other IP-free concepts with broad, universal, child-friendly appeal?
Lagoon layout - It seems to have developed piecemeal over its 120+ year history, with attractions added along a grid pattern. There’s a shaded north-south midway serving the park as a whole. Notice a TON of available space to develop along the north. We can mostly leave the existing park alone and add our self-contained expansion up there. Keep in mind a mountain range to the east which provides picturesque panoramas.
Kennywood layout - Generally this area is on a slope, with the lower left area the tallest point and the upper right area the lowest, emptying into a massive river valley. The southeastern patch of parking lot provides maybe 30 or more acres to play with. Note the existing entry plaza near there. The big problem is Kennywood Blvd. separating entry from the park, which presently is connected by a dingy concrete tunnel under the street. How do we improve that? Stay below grade with a prettier gradual tunnel? Sky bridge over it? Work with the city to sink the roadway like Disney Drive in Anaheim and have a wide ground level bridge over it?
Morey’ Piers layout - Only two piers are visible here; Surfside Pier sits to the north. This shows how the Wildwood Boardwalk divides the park space, and how vast the beach is. Note also the Splash Zone Waterpark, something Morey’s does NOT own (they have a competing waterpark on the edge of the nearest pier). I know the Morey’s people want it gone! Note also underutilized lots inland which could serve as a new dedicated Morey’s hotel and parking facility.
Dollywood layout - I don’t know what’s going on here. I know it’s in mountainous terrain, so I suspect the only developable land are that massive cleared area north of the park (I think Wildwood Grove is occupying a portion of this space) and that green circle to the east which might be inaccessible except by the railroad. I have no insights here.