Tdo

[devoy1701]

That's not true AT ALL. The fundamental principles of a free market is that Supply and Demand are functions of Price, and that equilibrium is reached when Quantity Supplied equals Quantity Demanded. Lower prices don't increase Demand, they artificially increase Quantity Demanded.

The following is probably bored and tedious to most readers, but fosse76 is obviously a smart guy, so let's take a look a little deeper:

Disney's willingness to spend on their product is dictated by the supply curve, S, and the Consumers' willingness to consume dictated by Demand curve D. These curves represent the Quantity and Price of goods in the market. Higher price, Disney is willing to provide more quality but the Consumer demands less. Lower price, the consumer will purchase a large quantity, but Disney will not be profitable to supply it. Originally, Disney was operating at point (Q*,P*), the equilibrium in this market. When the global economy took a hit, Demand shifted to the left to D-, and equilibrium (the intersection) is now at a lower Price and Quantity than it would have been if demand remained constant. Note that Disney's only control is over the Supply curve, and this curve has been unchanged. The Devil here is the demise of the larger economy, resulting in the shift of the Demand curve.

Your notion of "infinite demand" is a macroeconomic principle that applies to the economic problem of scarcity, but is irrelevant in the microeconomic scenario of an individual firm, in this case, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts.



This. But in addition, FLE and Hyperion Wharf are still major plans for this economic climate. Also, Parks and Resorts is operated somewhat autonomously from the other business units of the Walt Disney Company, and the MAJOR outlays for the two new cruise ships need to be factored in when people complain that there's not enough investment going into the parks.

To tie this back to the OP's original question I think it goes something like this:

The Disney Company is a HUGE company! (No kidding right?!) And they have many large investments in the works right now... A $1B revamp of California Adventure, a relaunch of the Disney Store business model, new resort in Hawaii and plans for one in DC, not to mention a $2M investment in 2 new Cruise ships and a new resort being built in Shanghi. I'm sure there are more, but you get the point. These are the kinds of things Iger is/has been focusing on.

Then you have WDW, which is a cash cow and and fend for itself without any help from the larger Walt Disney Company. Crofton and TDO opperate pretty autonomously from the parent company and for good reason too. When you are the most visited vacation destination in the world and you house the most popular theme park in the world, you don't need much additional oversight. And as long as that trend continues, and the parks are able to continue to lower their costs while turning a HUGE profit, there isn't any need for TDO to be ousted. Sure we have FLE and Hyperion Wharf in the works, but if I'm not mistaken, most (if not all) expansions and additions (aside from new theme parks) are fully funded by WDW itself, and not the larger Disney Company.

Also, with the facts stated above, I believe Meg Crofton is virtually untouchable as long as Iger and Staggs don't have any problems with her. And why should they when the parks are still so profitable? Drop in attendance and YoY Profits can be blamed on the bad economy (atleast for awhile). And I don't think the shareholders can petition to have someone in a non executive-board position removed from office (can we?).

So as much as I hate it, I think we're stuck with her. The only thing we can hope for is that FLE, and the yet to be unannounced FLE Pt 2, is an amazing addition and a sign of things turning around, and thay Hyperion Wharf does have some sort of Hoopla in the plans.

Btw, I will definitely sign up for any "Save Walt Disney World" group someone wants to start. I can assist with the charter...

 

[powlessfamily4]

Well.. all I have to say is it's easy to tell someone else how to do their job when you havn't spent a day in their shoes. We truly have no idea what is going on in those planning meetings..... even if you think you do, your probably wrong. You are aware that consistently poor profits would eventually result in the loss of their jobs right?
I seriously doubt TDO and Meg Crofton, Iger and Staggs have a master plan to drive the parks into the ground and destroy themselves in the process.

If it is as herendous as so many people claim.... it can only go up from here. I was happily satisfied with my two trips this past year and look forward to my trip this year.

Now go ahead... attack

 

[stphnbogert]

Well.. all I have to say is it's easy to tell someone else how to do their job when you havn't spent a day in their shoes. We truly have no idea what is going on in those planning meetings..... even if you think you do, your probably wrong. You are aware that consistently poor profits would eventually result in the loss of their jobs right?
I seriously doubt TDO and Meg Crofton, Iger and Staggs have a master plan to drive the parks into the ground and destroy themselves in the process.

If it is as herendous as so many people claim.... it can only go up from here. I was happily satisfied with my two trips this past year and look forward to my trip this year.

Now go ahead... attack

I can't believe all of this. You are so wrong on so many levels.


HAHAHA just kidding. :ROFLOL:

 

[devoy1701]

Well.. all I have to say is it's easy to tell someone else how to do their job when you havn't spent a day in their shoes. We truly have no idea what is going on in those planning meetings..... even if you think you do, your probably wrong. You are aware that consistently poor profits would eventually result in the loss of their jobs right?
I seriously doubt TDO and Meg Crofton, Iger and Staggs have a master plan to drive the parks into the ground and destroy themselves in the process.

If it is as herendous as so many people claim.... it can only go up from here. I was happily satisfied with my two trips this past year and look forward to my trip this year.

Now go ahead... attack

it doesn't matter how things are run day to day or whether or not we know what's involved in "a day in their shoes". What matters is public perception, and if the loyal fan base of Walt Disney World (not the casual visitor) isn't happy with the way things have been looking, then obviously someone isn't doing their job(s) right.

but apparently that is too big of an idea for some people here to grasp. As long as you can still have a blissful vacation and everything at least seems as good as it did last time you visited, that's of course all that matters when it comes to the management of the resort. :wave: Everything it obviously peachy keen.

 

[wolf359]

As long as you can still have a blissful vacation and everything at least seems as good as it did last time you visited, that's of course all that matters when it comes to the management of the resort. :wave: Everything it obviously peachy keen.

I'm not trying to be dense here, but if I have a blissful vacation and everything seems just as good as I remember it being, then why am I supposed to be unsatisfied anyway?

 

[powlessfamily4]

it doesn't matter how things are run day to day or whether or not we know what's involved in "a day in their shoes". What matters is public perception, and if the loyal fan base of Walt Disney World (not the casual visitor) isn't happy with the way things have been looking, then obviously someone isn't doing their job(s) right.

but apparently that is too big of an idea for some people here to grasp. As long as you can still have a blissful vacation and everything at least seems as good as it did last time you visited, that's of course all that matters when it comes to the management of the resort. :wave: Everything it obviously peachy keen.

Actually it does matter.... Maybe people are making unrealistic demands because they DON'T know what is going on behind the scenes. I find it very ironic that the same people who demand constant upgrades and new attractions are the same people who regularly complain about how expensive everything is in the parks. Guess what - you can't always have it both ways.
Maybe the reason you are not enjoying your vacation and finding it as blissful as some is because you are spending to much time scrutinizing every little thing that does meet your standard and adding it to your long list of complaints.
Judging by the number of people who visit the parks each year, I would have to venture to guess the majority of the people vacationing there are fairly happy with their vacations. This would includes visitors loyal and casual.

 

[devoy1701]

Actually it does matter.... Maybe people are making unrealistic demands because they DON'T know what is going on behind the scenes. I find it very ironic that the same people who demand constant upgrades and new attractions are the same people who regularly complain about how expensive everything is in the parks. Guess what - you can't always have it both ways.
Maybe the reason you are not enjoying your vacation and finding it as blissful as some is because you are spending to much time scrutinizing every little thing that does meet your standard and adding it to your long list of complaints.
Judging by the number of people who visit the parks each year, I would have to venture to guess the majority of the people vacationing there are fairly happy with their vacations. This would includes visitors loyal and casual.

I'm not trying to be dense here, but if I have a blissful vacation and everything seems just as good as I remember it being, then why am I supposed to be unsatisfied anyway?

And so is why TDO and Meg Crofton continue to be in charge. Because apparently they are doing a fine job.

 

[Lynne M]

But all we have to look at is the state of the parks in terms of how she is doing at her job. When we see something like the Yeti being broken and Uni opening a mega hit section of a theme park with no answer on our end, and PI closing down and sitting more or less deserted for 3 years, then that equates (atleast to those on the outside looking in) to her not doing her job well.

No one posting on this board is privy to the internal financial decision making or goal setting at the Walt Disney Company. What's on this thread is a bunch of speculation, wishful thinking and guessing by people on the outside looking in.

For all anyone here knows, none of the things you mention is considered a failure internally at Disney. YOU may think it's a failure, but that comes back again to Disney not doing what you want them to.

Millions of people visit Disney World every year, enjoy their vacations immensely, think the state of the parks is just fine, and keep coming back. Most don't look at things from the long-term Disney die-hard fan viewpoint, with the sky falling every time a new ride or new resort is built that isn't to their liking. Yes, it's to Disney's benefit to satisfy their most dedicated fans, but it just isn't as important to the bottom line as some here think it is.

 

[devoy1701]

No one posting on this board is privy to the internal financial decision making or goal setting at the Walt Disney Company. What's on this thread is a bunch of speculation, wishful thinking and guessing by people on the outside looking in.

For all anyone here knows, none of the things you mention is considered a failure internally at Disney. YOU may think it's a failure, but that comes back again to Disney not doing what you want them to.

Millions of people visit Disney World every year, enjoy their vacations immensely, think the state of the parks is just fine, and keep coming back. Most don't look at things from the long-term Disney die-hard fan viewpoint, with the sky falling every time a new ride or new resort is built that isn't to their liking. Yes, it's to Disney's benefit to satisfy their most dedicated fans, but it just isn't as important to the bottom line as some here think it is.

Wow. heaven forbid we do a little speculating on a Disney World Fan Forum. I believe this thread was posted in a general discussion area that allows for such comments to be made.

well yeah, but the culture is getting dumber every day and most people can be entertained with a video screen in front of them.

Also I wouldn't say no one on this board is privy to financial information (not that I am). But again you don't need to look at that stuff to form an opinion of the company. All you need to look at is the product offered 10, 15, 20 years ago versus the product offered today. And yes, I doubt anything we mentioned is considered a failure to Disney Execs since afterall the park are still churning tremendous profits. The only thing can can be seen as a failure is that attendence numbers have slipped while Uni down the road has seen significant increases in attendence.

A corporation like Disney is unique, and an area like Disney World is especially unique. I believe that when it comes to certain fields that focusing on the bottom line is the absolute wrong way to do things. That instead a company (or segment or product line) should focus on connecting with the consumers, putting a face to the product, the company, and it's leadership, along with presenting to it's loyal followers that we understand what you are looking for and this is the path we are going to take to get there. If you make that kind of connect with your consumers, you with have a loyal fan base for decades to come and the bottom line will follow suite anyway. It's a theory of leadership I developed during my last 3 semesters called Iconic Corporate Leadership.

Also, it didn't take much for one Board member to start an uprising in the company, not once, but twice. All it takes is one powerful person to realize that the company isn't living up to it's potential. And (not that we are anywhere close to this, but) if the company does continue this seemingly stagnation in certain areas of the company, it doesn't take but a decade or so of the continued behavior to put the company in a compromising situation. I'm just saying, it's happened before. And it doesn't have to be the entire company. But losing such titles as having the most visited theme park in the world, etc could be quite a blow if it ever happend.

And to close. You're right, most of the people who vacation at Disney probably don't care a rats you know what about anything but the rides. They don't care if they have the names of the attractions or parks right, or that there are other dining options other than counter service, or that there are dozens and dozens of different resorts on property, or that there are other things to do besides visit the theme parks. They probably don't even notice the chipped paint or the burnt out light bulbs or the gum on the sidewalks. Some of them don't even realize there are 4 theme parks. They would come to the theme parks anyway...so why not focus on those who actually care about those types of things. Who will stop spending money on merchandise because it's not as good of quality or unique as it used to be, or who might actually stop going because the quality isn't what it used to be. We might only make up 10% of the visitors to Disney World, but every customer is important, and it's not a good idea to alienate 10% of your customer base.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

I still don't understand why people who have no knowledge about anything related to the Disney Corporation, which includes everyone posting here, constantly throw Disney executives under the bus? If the people who run Disney finds them worthy of continued operation at their current position, I think, now bear with me, I think if the Disney Board of directors has faith in these people, I should think you should as well.

The parks are fantastic, there is no question in there quality, for anyone to compare them to the parks of 20, 10 or even 5 years ago and actually think those versions were better is fooling themselves into a pointless argument.

If people went to the parks to enjoy themselves, instead of investigating how many scraps of paper they see in the ground, they might have better memories of their vacation.


Jimmy Thick- Tramps like us...

 

[trendicoff]

While I've had nothing but positive interactions with Ms. Crofton I can't specifically speak to her business decisions nor what personal impact she has had on any of those we've observed at WDW.

What I am curious about are these notions of flat-lining or decreasing attendance. While I'm not privy to exact aggregations of attendance numbers, for the second half of 2011 the work roster would imply that full staff is needed thus attendance has been good enough to nearly make up for the slump during the first half of the year (which I think is easily attributable to our economic state). If this is the case then on the contrary, the public perception is that the value of a Disney vacation is clearly proportionate to its cost. Further proof can be found in the advertising campaign (or lack there of). How many "buy 4 get 3 free" ads do you see now? A company that is losing money or attendance doesn't decrease its marketing campaign.

I don't know the full story but I fully agree that the PI debacle was a tremendous waste of opportunities both for guest magic as well as company profit. It is my sincere hope that once the FLE is seen to be a success that corporate leadership will feel justified in increasing cash flow to general park maintenance and refurbishment -- remove the rust as it were.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

A company that is losing money or attendance doesn't decrease its marketing campaign.

I've read some nonsense on here but that is just laughable. In tough economic times training and marketing are two of the first things bean counters cut.

 

[trendicoff]

I've read some nonsense on here but that is just laughable. In tough economic times training and marketing are two of the first things bean counters cut.

Certainly an MO at some companies, but looking at TDC in a vacuum of one year is truly naive. I made my comment specifically in the context of a contrast to the previous year when economic times were even worse and yet the company increased the advertising dollars.

 

[MickeyMind]

I've read and seen alot about tokyo disney and it doesnt look like they cut corners or half a$$ anything! even though they're parks always look full. I'm sure its just as much of a cash cow as wdw is because anytime I read trip reports or see pics of the place those parks are always full, and it seems like people spend alot on merchandise there as well. WDW seems to be cutting corners and sacrificing quality left and right just to feed their bottom line, but tokyo disney doesnt seem to do that, on the contrary, they still offer diverse and quality merchandise, it seems like they're always adding quality attractions and things there seem like they are always top of the line. It seems as if they actually care about their parks and they dont treat them as just profit collectors, they actually invest back into their product and the benefits of doing so are noticed by the amount of people willing to stand in line for over an hour just to buy something. I dont know it just seems that for as much money wdw brings in, not enough is put back into it.

Take a look at dhs and ak, these are two parks that need more rides and attractions really bad, but they just sit there idle, not creating anything that wows people anymore. If the oriental land company were in charge of these 2 parks we would probably see things that would wow us again but sadly tdo is in charge and they're not interested in wow-ing anybody they are fine with just leaving those parks as they are because they know people will still come. Thats where it seems like the olc and tdo differ greatly, olc knows they dont have to do anything and people will still come by the truckload but they choose to keep investing, to keep plussing things, and I think that thats a better way of running things than the way tdo does.

 

[wolf359]

I've read and seen alot about tokyo disney and it doesnt look like they cut corners or half a$$ anything! even though they're parks always look full. I'm sure its just as much of a cash cow as wdw is because anytime I read trip reports or see pics of the place those parks are always full, and it seems like people spend alot on merchandise there as well. WDW seems to be cutting corners and sacrificing quality left and right just to feed their bottom line, but tokyo disney doesnt seem to do that, on the contrary, they still offer diverse and quality merchandise, it seems like they're always adding quality attractions and things there seem like they are always top of the line. It seems as if they actually care about their parks and they dont treat them as just profit collectors, they actually invest back into their product and the benefits of doing so are noticed by the amount of people willing to stand in line for over an hour just to buy something. I dont know it just seems that for as much money wdw brings in, not enough is put back into it.

Take a look at dhs and ak, these are two parks that need more rides and attractions really bad, but they just sit there idle, not creating anything that wows people anymore. If the oriental land company were in charge of these 2 parks we would probably see things that would wow us again but sadly tdo is in charge and they're not interested in wow-ing anybody they are fine with just leaving those parks as they are because they know people will still come. Thats where it seems like the olc and tdo differ greatly, olc knows they dont have to do anything and people will still come by the truckload but they choose to keep investing, to keep plussing things, and I think that thats a better way of running things than the way tdo does.

Sure, but consider how much more Disney owns, operates, and has to maintain than Oriental Land Company.

You'd have to compare OLC to Disney when they only had Disneyland operating. If you did, you'd see a very similar situation.

But that isn't the case anymore. EPCOT Center was the turning point where I think Disney started building things they couldn't maintain without significant outside support, and the massive expansion of Walt Disney World in the late 80s and 90s only compounded the problem.

Now the resorts are so large it take a literal army of people to operate them. Not just two theme parks like in Japan but four parks and two water parks. And because of the size of Walt Disney World, it's not "just" the cast members in the parks, but the bus drivers, boat captains, and monorail pilots, even the guys mowing grass and filling potholes on those 43 square miles.

There's so much more Disney infrastructure and manpower in Florida alone, and yet they still charge about the same to walk in the gate as Tokyo Disneyland. If Disney could take every dollar spent in the parks and reinvest it in just the parks themselves we'd see a dramatic difference.

 

[powlessfamily4]

Sure, but consider how much more Disney owns, operates, and has to maintain than Oriental Land Company.

You'd have to compare OLC to Disney when they only had Disneyland operating. If you did, you'd see a very similar situation.

But that isn't the case anymore. EPCOT Center was the turning point where I think Disney started building things they couldn't maintain without significant outside support, and the massive expansion of Walt Disney World in the late 80s and 90s only compounded the problem.

Now the resorts are so large it take a literal army of people to operate them. Not just two theme parks like in Japan but four parks and two water parks. And because of the size of Walt Disney World, it's not "just" the cast members in the parks, but the bus drivers, boat captains, and monorail pilots, even the guys mowing grass and filling potholes on those 43 square miles.

There's so much more Disney infrastructure and manpower in Florida alone, and yet they still charge about the same to walk in the gate as Tokyo Disneyland. If Disney could take every dollar spent in the parks and reinvest it in just the parks themselves we'd see a dramatic difference.

AGREE!:sohappy:

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Sorry, Trendicoff, but I can't see your Rusted Magic site being a success. Most likely, it'll go the way of other Disney sites and eventually take a turn for the worst.