Survivor 42 Discussion Thread

[dmw]

So... I was correct that there are no tribal alliances post merge. Lots of scrambling in this episode.

And, the same "merge" contest and exile island, with just one small twist - not really one that would make any real difference. Interesting that one of the players (I forget which woman) actually guessed that Rocksroy might have the power to change the outcome so that the safe players actually go to tribal. But, there was no follow-up conversation (at least not any we saw).

I think Tori is the most likely to get voted off next.

I really feel for Jonathan. We have seen too many times that the strong players early in the game end up with targets on their backs after the merge. I think it would be so rewarding to play strong physically the entire game and win. There is just too much emphasis on the social game now. And, I really miss having more hidden immunity idols.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I can see why they have some sort of mass immunity merge twist. Having only five players available as targets simply makes the dynamics more interesting. It likely wouldn't have been an interesting vote if all options were on the table.

Not going to lie, I died a little bit inside when it became clear the hourglass was back. They made it slightly better, which is faint praise considering they couldn't have made it any worse.

Maryanne continues to be TV gold. "So you agree with me". "We're on the same page".

This could be interesting moving forward, or the 7 could still consolidate power.

 

[PUSH]

Survivor: Redemption Island castaway, Ralph Kiser, has passed away from a heart attack at the age of 56. Always sad to lose a member of the Survivor community.

 

[PUSH]

I felt like this was a pretty decent episode despite it being a pretty bland vote. It was the overwhelming majority splitting between two players, but we got a lot of insight from those on the bottom - Romeo, Maryanne, and Tori. Particularly Romeo and Maryanne.

Drea is loaded with advantages. I don't even know where she would begin to use them. If she can keep the Knowledge is Power under wraps, then that is a massive, and pretty overpowered, advantage. I can't say I'm a fan of it returning.

The negotiating for the rice is pretty uneventful. We got a good confession of Maryanne using her emotions to manipulate others, but outside of that... is there much meat on the bone there?

Omar has an amazing grasp on the game. I think it really helped him to not have a vote last time. He's in with everyone, and he's able to whip the votes in his favor, even without having a vote. He's definitely one to watch out for, but I don't know if anyone really sees him as a threat.

Mike does have a strong social game. Socially, he may be the best player out there.

Here are my winner rankings following this episode...

Tier 1 - Likely would win in a final three
Omar
Hai
Jonathan
Mike

Tier 2 - Winner potential
Drea

Tier 3 - Under the radar/dark horse candidate
Lindsay
Maryanne

Tier 4 - Unlikely they would win
Romeo
Rocksroy
Tori

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Hai hasn't been able to get his way two weeks in a row. His stock in the game appears to be falling.

Mike sure was fixated on someone voting for him, at the same tribal council he voted for her. However, it's true, and Sandra said this recently - people will say they're not mad you voted for them, but it's not true. Voting for someone can very much end any chance of a relationship.

Next week appears to be the "we're seeing a pagonging happen so let's fast forward through a couple of votes" episode of the season.

The "getting caught red handed" gimmick was kind of fun, but how bad is it really when you can wash yourself off right there? Knowledge is power is overpowered considering the gimmick where players have to essentially announce they have an idol.

Jeff: I'm going to be a tough negotiator. Don't think for a second I'll be this nice next season. Then he immediately folds. The sad music accompanying everything Maryanne said was a bit overkill for my tastes. It was an interesting twist overall, with the players implying the four sit outs were immune, which is pretty crazy and just goes to show that Survivor is still a social game.

 

[dmw]

For me, the only interesting take away from the most recent episode was no one is listening or cares about Tori. If she had better relationships, she might have been able to expose Drea and the red paint more. That could have really shaken up the vote. Tori indeed watches everyone closely, and might have been more of a contender if she could play a better game in other ways, and continue to dominate in the individual immunity challenges.

Here's an interesting thought: The longer Tori stays in the game through winning immunity, the more likely old memories and reasons to vote her off become replaced by how others are playing. She might even be the longshot to get to the final three.

I don't think much else changed in the game. Romeo is too paranoid - he's gone in the next vote. I think Maryanne will be the other person voted out, especially if the "guy alliance" actually happens. I predict another immunity win for Tori.

Mike is on my list to make the final three. Not sure about who will be with him, yet.

 

[PUSH]

For me, the only interesting take away from the most recent episode was no one is listening or cares about Tori. If she had better relationships, she might have been able to expose Drea and the red paint more. That could have really shaken up the vote. Tori indeed watches everyone closely, and might have been more of a contender if she could play a better game in other ways, and continue to dominate in the individual immunity challenges.

Here's an interesting thought: The longer Tori stays in the game through winning immunity, the more likely old memories and reasons to vote her off become replaced by how others are playing. She might even be the longshot to get to the final three.

I don't think much else changed in the game. Romeo is too paranoid - he's gone in the next vote. I think Maryanne will be the other person voted out, especially if the "guy alliance" actually happens. I predict another immunity win for Tori.

Mike is on my list to make the final three. Not sure about who will be with him, yet.

I can see Tori as a no-vote finalist. She has skills, but it seems like she's not a very likable person on the island. She hasn't connected with anyone.

I also find it interesting that Romeo is perceived as paranoid... because he has every right to be when they are literally splitting the votes on him and have had conversations about voting him off.

 

[PUSH]

There was a lot more to this episode than I thought there was going to be after I saw how the tribe was split. It could have been two, easy, straightforward votes.

Starting with the first vote, Rocksroy would have been perfect for season 5. His strategy is extremely base-level, and once he's made a decision, he will not change it. For Omar, this vote makes sense. For Hai and Mike... not so much. Rocksroy was a solid number of theirs, and Romeo is Hai's biggest enemy. Once again, Omar is able to subtly influence everything that happens. He's playing a really great game thus far.

The second vote gets a lot more complicated, but I'll start with Jonathan's strategy. It was terrible. He goes to Maryanne and tells her she is going to be the decoy boot, but there is an extremely obvious decoy in Tori. She's the obvious, straightforward vote. Lindsay points out the major flaws in his strategy, but he isn't willing to listen. Even if his idea of voting out Drea has lots of merit, his execution was horrible. Fast forward to his approach with Drea... he tells her they're voting Maryanne to get rid of an idol. And the person you're telling this to has an idol! It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I have a feeling he would have been voted out if he hadn't won immunity.

The conversation that developed at the second Tribal Council was once again a very valid and important one to have. It just goes to show how real these issues are that they keep being brought up. This cast hadn't seen any of season 41, and yet the same talking points were made. It's very valid, and Drea and Maryanne were really brave and courageous to speak up, because there are people who will attack them for it. Maryanne had the mind to realize this, too, and unfortunately had to take action with her idol to prove that she wasn't getting by because she "played the race card", which she absolutely did not. That is a perfect example of how subconscious thoughts affect the game and why Survivor needs to talk about and address the issues. There will be people who say Maryanne wouldn't have had to play it if they didn't talk about race, but that doesn't matter. Those thoughts still go through her head and affect how she plays the game.

Jonathan's reaction was a perfect example of what Drea and Maryanne were talking about. And even Shan and Liana last season. And Jamal in 39. They were not calling anybody racist, but instead addressing the subconscious thoughts people have. Jonathan was taking the problem and making himself the victim, essentially dismissing their feelings and realities because it made him feel uncomfortable. He had no empathy for them, and instead got confrontational. Drea said it perfectly about that's how it always happens. They speak up, and they get shut down. Maryanne also perfectly explained it. I hope Jonathan was able to listen to what they had to say and learned from it, but from what we saw there was no real apology. He just said he loved them, which is really him just trying to make himself look better. Again, I hope he took what they said and learned from it, but I am disappointed in how he responded. It was a really bad episode for him.

The outcome of the vote was very interesting. Two players played their idols before the votes were cast. Only Ben in season 35 had done that before. They had an open forum vote, which I totally get and understand why they did it. However, it left the actual votes a little unofficial. Nobody officially said who they were voting for like they did with Brandon in Caramoan or Varner in Game Changers. They were just kind of debating it. I mean, it's pretty clear they all wanted Tori gone, but it wasn't officially said in any capacity that we saw. Maybe it was cut for time. But the open forum made it 100% certain that Tori needed to play her SitD. Just a very bizarre ending.

Overall, I really appreciated the episode. There are a lot of people who think Survivor shouldn't talk about any real life issues, but as I said before they are part of the game for many players, so they need to be talked about. Just because they aren't a part of your life and how you navigate the world, doesn't mean it isn't for others, and we need to respect and empathize with that.

It's going to be hard to do my rankings this week, but I'll try. As we move through the rest of the game, I may add or take away tiers as I see necessary to better place players into a group. Mostly because I put very little forward thinking into these. I make them up on the spot.

Tier 1 - Likely to win if they get to the final 3
1. Omar
2. Drea
3. Mike
4. Hai

Tier 2 - Could win with the right combination
5. Lindsay

Tier 3 - Could win, but a lot would have to go their way
6. Romeo
7. Maryanne

Tier 4 - I'm having a really hard time seeing their path to victory
8. Jonathan

I've explained Jonathan's drastic decline already, but I think it's becoming more and more clear that the other players don't think he's a good strategic player. Socially, he showed so many flaws tonight. In the past, he's shown a lot of flaws toward Maryanne. I can't see him getting her vote. I also can't see Drea or Chanelle voting for him. I don't think Hai, Omar, or Romeo are going to respect a purely physical game. I could see him getting a vote from Rocksroy, Mike, and maybe Lindsay. But even Lindsay I think would steer to the more strategic and social players.

 

[PUSH]

Of course, another CBS "reality tv" program has turned into another black lives matter campaign, like Big Brother 2021. Another opportunity for the blacks selected for the show to guilt whites about being subconsciously racist. This kind of political fecal matter is turning once-inclusive people into racists. You keep being accused of something that youre innocent of, and eventually you become just that. Going to be blamed anyway.

Wow, that's crazy that you created an account tonight just to post this on a Disney forum. I wonder what your real account is and why you don't want this comment associated with it.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Of course, another CBS "reality tv" program has turned into another black lives matter campaign, like Big Brother 2021. Another opportunity for the blacks selected for the show to guilt whites about being subconsciously racist. This kind of political fecal matter is turning once-inclusive people into racists. You keep being accused of something that youre innocent of, and eventually you become just that. Going to be blamed anyway.

Pretty sure people who get upset over a legitimate conversation weren't turned into anything by a TV show.

They were already there.

 

[Jedijax719]

Very raw moment in Survivor. Drea and Maryanne came from a similar mindset where they just didn't want to see another black person on the jury in a row. They both came at it in a different way verbally. The questions I have after this are:
1. Was Maryanne wise in playing her idol?
2. Will there be a sense of fear in voting out Maryanne or Drea now?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Very raw moment in Survivor. Drea and Maryanne came from a similar mindset where they just didn't want to see another black person on the jury in a row. They both came at it in a different way verbally. The questions I have after this are:
1. Was Maryanne wise in playing her idol?
2. Will there be a sense of fear in voting out Maryanne or Drea now?

1. Yes. Drea was correct to play her idol given that she was the target and Maryanne knew she was the backup plan. The moment Drea plays hers Maryanne has to do the same. It's entirely possible this tribal council would have gone exactly the way it did regardless of the other issue at play.

We don't know for sure whether Drea would have been aware enough to play her idol, but in a five person vote it's a pretty obvious thing to do. A lot of people feel this vote played out correctly from a strategic point of view, even though that wasn't the discussion, and I agree.

Which brings up the question of whether or not this is a good twist. It's entertaining to watch, and it forces players to use advantages and make moves against people they might not have at this time. It shakes up the status quo. The question is, is that the game having too much influence and not letting the players just play?

2. I wouldn't think so. They reacted to this one vote for a specific reason and never said "you can't vote out a black person". If anything they might be perceived as more of a pair having gone through that experience together, making them bigger targets than they were before.

 

[PUSH]

This was another great episode. I think the thing they're doing differently in this "new era" to really make it fun again, is giving us enough information to keep everything straight. In the 30s they got away from that. They were feeding us false narratives, or completely leaving the reasoning behind the vote out of the episode, just to surprise us. But what that did was leave us confused and angry that we weren't shown the full story. Then it was hard to piece together what happened through exit interviews. This season we're being presented with the real scenarios running through players' minds. And then when the votes are read, we understand what the real plan was. It's simple enough to follow, and we get enough information. It's similar to the late 20s and early 30s, which may have been the best collective run in the show's history, from season 25 to season 33. Yes, there were a couple duds in there, but overall it was entertaining with the blindsides, but wasn't confusing.

I was really happy Lindsay won both challenges. I've liked her throughout the season, but I feel like she's becoming a breakout player. She's always been an under-the-radar player for me, who I thought could make a push near the end. I thought her choices in Omar and Mike were really smart. Also, in the loved ones clips, it looks like she was wearing a Brett Favre jersey as a kid, so that's another plus in my book. Go Pack Go!

I think Omar is playing an amazing game, too. He has been so subtle to the other players, but he's been in firm control of everything since the merge. Nobody else realizes it. He's been in control of every vote he's been a part of. Socially, he is phenomenal. There's a long way to go, but he's played a perfect game thus far. Everyone wants to work with him, but nobody is viewing him as a threat.

This was the most entertaining "ball & bow" challenge I can remember. Lindsay was so rock solid, and it was so even. I'm glad Lindsay got the win after she had said at the start of the episode how she hasn't won anything. Then she wins back to back challenges.

The decision between Hai and Jonathan was an interesting one. I really liked Lindsay's approach. She wanted Jonathan out, but everyone else came to her saying they want Hai out. She laid low and went with the group, while maintaining all of her other alliances.

I thought Omar's ideas of bringing in Hai was a little over the top and unnecessary, and ultimately he didn't go with it, so it probably was never a real possibility. More likely something he just said to producers during his confessional.

And while I'm okay with Hai going, my top winner pick is officially out of the running. I chose Hai and Chanelle. Hai turned out to be a decent pick, so overall I'm happy.

My favorite two left in the game are Lindsay and Omar. I admire how they're playing. But I really like most people who are left. The casting is just phenomenal this season.

Here are my rankings for the week...

Tier 1 - Will win if they get to the end.
1. Omar

In my mind, Omar is the clear front runner to win if he makes it that far. Nobody has played a better game than him this season.

Tier 2 - Can totally see them winning
2. Drea
3. Lindsay
4. Mike

All three of these players would be good winners. Lindsay's value has skyrocketed the past two weeks. I know she's been seen as the purple edit this season, but I feel like we've seen enough of her thoughts in the pre-merge. Mike's stock has dropped a bit for me because he's been shown as gullible and too old-school.

Tier 3 - Longshot to win, but wouldn't be the craziest thing
5. Maryanne

Maryanne has more abilities to persuade and manipulate than I had originally thought, but I don't think she has enough agency in the game. She can't really claim anything as her own strategy.

Tier 4 - Would be surprised if they won
6. Romeo
7. Jonathan

Romeo could be the no vote finalist at the end. I like his confessionals, but he has had no footing in the game since early on. Jonathan is definitely one of the better pre-merge players we've seen, but his skills don't transfer to the individual post-merge game. He's strong socially when there's the team mentality, but isn't able to socially and strategically compete with others once that "team" mentality goes away. I could see him being a second place finisher by getting a couple votes, but I don't see him being able to gather enough to get the win.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

^ I agree with all that.

No big surprise this week. Hai's stock has been falling for weeks and Omar's has been rising.

Hai might be a bit overrated overall. He only survived pre-merge because someone else misplayed and lost her vote. The Mike/Hai alliance kind of happened because neither had a choice, and Omar's ability to read the relationship and manipulate it has been masterful.

Taku is now in control, and did the other players see it coming? Are they about to get pagonged? Very possible. The editing does tend to downplay that element of the game in many cases.

 

[Jedijax719]

Omar is playing on a level by himself. This is like Cirie's best moves on overdrive. And nobody is catching on that he is controlling everything.

This episode showed that Mike's game isn't very good. He is likeable but he is being led constantly by others.

Lindsey is smart and socially aware, but unfortunately it seems too late for her story to catch up.

Maryanne is also aware and being more subdued lately. That's a good thing and she's been very intuitive in confessionals. We just don't have all of the connections that seem necessary for a win, but there's time with her since she's had a story throughout.

Drea is solid. She's got the necessary means and is likeable. She could be a surprise winner that really isn't that much of a surprise at all.

Jonathan may be seen as a superhero and is very likeable, but as Lindsey said, he lacks strategy and social awareness.

Romeo's just a goat at this point. He's out of the loop with voting and cannot win against anyone left. The only question is will Omar keep him around or drop him as a goat everyone wants to take to the end (alas Cirie and Courtney from season 12).

Unlike last season, all of the possible winners have had content and/or stories throughout the season. The editing has been mostly equal. No Shans and no Heathers.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Was Lindsay smart to reveal her shared advantage? If I'm Omar or Mike I don't target her or Drea because to remove one hands the other an idol. Possibly a good defensive move on her part.

Omar's slight risk is the blatant lie to Mike could potentially cost him Mike's jury vote should it come to that. Hai seems he'd be okay with it from a gameplay perspective, but Mike seems to value honesty and old-school Survivor values higher. If he finds out that he's actually Omar's puppet, not Hai's, that would be interesting.

Drea runs the risk of using too many advantages and being seen as getting to the end with too much luck. They mentioned on RHAP this week the smart move might be to not steal an idol, and she can then highlight at the end that she had advantages and didn't have to use them.

Players like Romeo don't seem to be respected a lot in the game or in the public eye. My feeling is, if you're not likely to win, play the goat game. People seem to forget that runners up win $100,000 and $85,000 respectively. That's more money than many people make in a year, for a month's effort. Maybe he can't win but he's in a good position to make some serious coin.

 

[johnnnyc]

Great episode, however it drove me up the wall seeing Hai’s birthmark(?) come and go
throughout the episode (and season?). I went as far as researching if players utilize makeup, however, they only wear this on the first episode and the jury. Either this is wrong or he has as twin.
As for the racist thingie, I completely understand the girls thoughts. It also could make others hesitate (subconsciously or deliberately) to vote in a way they of normally would do after this (with millions watching). CBS made sure the game favors the minorities (no issues here with me at all) so giving up the idols was in my opinion a extreme move that should of not been made. Use the idol to get to the end and become a role model. At this point hope Jonathan wins (he deserves it) but Mary Ann is the one I enjoy the most.

 

[PUSH]

CBS made sure the game favors the minorities (no issues here with me at all)

I wouldn't say it favors minorities. The Survivor Diversity Campaign helped make things a little more even, since they were so imbalanced for 40 seasons.

 

[Jedijax719]

I'd say that either Omar wins or the person who takes him out will win.

Still a lot of game left.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I'd say that either Omar wins or the person who takes him out will win.

Still a lot of game left.

The least satisfying outcome would be Omar gets taken out by Advantagegeddon, which is a very real possibility.

I can also see him getting the Russell outcome, where we as viewers witness an amazing strategic game that doesn't get rewarded by the jury.

He's played a brilliantly subtle game, but the risk is the players don't see it and aren't convinced if he gets the chance to explain it. He could easily get overshadowed if a couple of other players use an advantage to make a splashy move. The other thing is, in explaining it he has to admit to some brilliant, but villainous moves.

As I said before, there are a few old school players who may not take well to being lied to. If Mike's on the jury and learns he was Omar's puppet all along, that might not play well. Rocksroy might have that personal objection as well. The vote could swing away from Omar quite easily, especially if he's not sitting next to obvious goats.